1
Tamyrlin: 2006-03-10
(Frenzy for Tamyrlin)
Wow, Nazbaque. The peanut gallery is going to have a field day tearing this one to shreds. Hope you're up for it.
i'm a bit curious about your opening statement. Why is it "obvious" that Gaidal is not Olver or an unnamed baby?
and Gaidal being hit on the head? Brilliant.
Have at it, Theorylanders!
2
Ishamael666: 2006-03-10
Gaidal, if has been born, is no more than two years old. We saw him at Falme, and time doesn't flow backwards, even in Tel'aran'rhiod.
3
Paddy: 2006-03-10
Even if immediately after Falme he was woven out, he could only possibly be a few years old. Thats why Birgitte is so distraught over that, because she was torn out early, by the time he grows to adulthood she'll be a lot older than him, and so most likely he'll want nothing to do with her.
4
Mairashda: 2006-03-11
Points against this theory are stronger than those in favor. The timing isn't right for Olver to be Gaidal Cain reborn, so how could an adult manage this? The only thing Mahiro and Gaidal really have in common is that both use two swords which they wear strapped to their back. But why shouldn't a Kandori lord have learned the Arafellin style of swordfighting, especially given the reputation of arafellin swordsmen?
5
tworiverswoman: 2006-03-11
Nazbaque, You need to make it MUCH clearer that you think that Moggy may have "ripped" Gaidal out of the Pattern before she did it to Birgitte. If that is, in fact, what you are proposing. Without that bit of theorizing, this makes no sense at all.
Rafela was a full Sister in New Spring. There is no indication whatever when she took Mahiro as a warder. But he is NOT YOUNG. Frankly, he just sounds like a random "spear carrier" to me. He is described as a "Lord of Kandor." It seems unlikely that Rafela would have slapped a fake Peerage on him, if he was who you say. His list of skills seem perfectly in keeping with other men of the Borderlands. Look at Lan, for cryin' out loud.
And you think Gaidal Cain is the only man to use two swords? C'mon.
Nope -- voting down.
6
Callandor: 2006-03-11
You need to forget those exceptions, do more research, think this through more and explain better.
**First I will point out the obvious. Gaidal Cain is not Orvel or Mat or an unknown baby. He is in fact Mahiro Shukosa, Rafela's Warder.**
The logic that rules our Olver and Mat clearly rule out Rafela's Warder (IE: they were alive and in the world at the time of Falme). Though why an unknown baby is ruled out is quite mysterious -- as far as I know there's absolutely nothing against it, other than some people like Moghedien doing the same thing to him as she did to Birgitte or simply destroying his soul (but that would make all this pointless).
**1) Rafela was in Salidar so Mahiro was probably there as well. Birgitte might not have seen the guy, but he very likely saw her. Why didn't he meet with her?**
Because if he was Cain, he would have no idea of who he truely is when he is reborn?
**2) Min sees a lot of stuff around Birgitte. Why not around Mahiro?**
1. Her viewings aren't all the time.
2. It's a possible indication that he's not Cain.
**Not likely. I think that Gaidal would have been through something like Birgitte when she was brought back to the world. Rafela would be the Aes Sedai who bonded him to save his life. Since Gaidal left TAR before Birgitte, the bonding would have happend before Elayne and Birgitte came to Salidar.**
How Cain was just where Rafela was when this happened, at the right time, and how she knew to bond him all left delightfully unanswered.
**1.2)Gaidal doesn't know who he is.
Possible. Nyn tried to Heal Birgitte before Elayne bonded her. Perhaps she managed to Heal some part of her like the amnesia side effect. Or Gaidal could have hit his head or something.**
Right. Even with Birgitte's loss of memories, she still has far more than any other person, and knows who she truely is. Getting hit in the head, at some point in time after being saved by miraculous conditions already (by at the time an unknown person to Cain, too!) is pushing possiblity out windows; however, it is an extremely funny explanation.
**1.3) No one knows who Gaidal is and he is trying to keep it that way.
Very likely. At least Rafela should know who Gaidal is, but if she does, it doesn't rule out the low profile reason. Birgitte might look like an idiot woman who read too many stories, but Birgitte and Gaidal together would certainly make someone suspicious. If Rafela knows who Gaidal is she most likely reasond out who Birgitte must be. She most likely would tell Gaidal to keep low profile and not meet with Birgitte.**
And Rafela would just blithely accept this? Two Heroes of the Horn suddenly appearing in the world, by the actions of a Forsaken?
**2) Min didn't see stuff around Birgitte while they were in Salidar. Why?
The only explanation I can come up with is that Birgitte wasn't tied to the Pattern strongly enough at that time and Gaidal wasn't either. When Min sees the stuff around Birgitte, she has been tied long enough. Also the time Birgitte spent with Mat might tie her to the Pattern more strongly. Him being ta'veren and all.**
Completely useless answer -- Min doesn't see viewings all the time. That's more than sufficent, even if it seems strange that she spent a while in Salidar and they didn't appear during the at least a week when she was (nevermind the part about recognizing her from Falme in Caemlyn and not in Salidar...). Not tied to the Pattern strong enough is pure hodge-podge crap. Min sees viewings around random Randland farmers -- if there was anyone probably "less tied to the Pattern" it would most likely be the no-named farmer.
**1) Where are Rafela and Mahiro now?**
Rafela was last seen in Tear; Mahiro is presumed there as well, but he was last seen going to Dumai's Wells.
**2) Why haven't they been more involved?**
They dealt with the Sea Folk, then had a time in between Rand's running about of doing nothing in Cairhien, then she was sent to deal with the rebels, and just finished doing that. What more is wanted? (A strong hint he isn't Cain, anyway).
**3) If Birgitte is Elayne's Hero and Gaidal is Min's, will Avi have hers as well? Who?**
This doesn't even make sense. If Cain was Min's Hero (a concept of ownership of a Hero of the Horn... that's definately going on the list of wackiness), he'd definately be more involved than saying "Be careful with the Salidar Aes Sedai and Rand, Min."
**4) Will all the other Heroes be brought back to the world?**
Since only Moghedien is presumed to know this (Lanfear is possible, sure, but we only know of Moghedien) and did this to Birgitte only due to a personal hatred (and you're only presuming she did it to Cain as well) it's quite unlikely. Not to mention, unnecessary.
**5) Are Birgitte and Gaidal still bound to the Horn?**
It's my personal standing that:
1. Cain was reborn as normal (IE: the unknown baby in Randland destined for other future glories soon).
2. Birgitte's situation now is still a continuation of their romance. It's not like Birgitte is 60 in the world, and will die at any time -- she's young aged if at most middle aged. Unless she's killed off, she can live for a long time; more than enough for a relationship with a younger Cain to be possible. This still meets Birgitte's said conditions, since Cain was born before her, even if she would be older. I find it a great twist on the "usual" events.
7
Stilicho: 2006-03-13
Nice critique, Callandor. I especially like your final point regarding whether Birgitte will start "tadpoling" with Gaidal ala Demi and Ashton!
8
El Bogarto: 2006-03-13
Good call Callandor.
Another item in the favor of your last point is the 'vitality' effect that Warders receive as the byproduct of being Warders. I would imagine that Birgitte will still be hale and hearty (and flexible!) by the time Gaidal cultivates an interest in girls.
9
JollyW89: 2006-03-13
I have curcumstantial proof that Gaidal has been reborn. For the past how ever long Gaidal Cain, and Birgitte have been spun out he has been the older of the two. I remember early in the story that was stressed for what seemed like no reason. Then Min had a foretelling when she met Birgitte.
#1 She said that she saw more around Birgitte then anyone b4 in her life, she also said she thought she saw past and future lives. Which Min can't normaly due, seeing as she sees Rand all of the time and never says anything. But because Birgitte was ripped out of the wheel Min can see more. But alot of that was off topic so
#2 Min said she saw the love of Birgitte's over and over again, it was the same man but sometimes older and sometimes younger.
#2a seeing as in the past he has always been older than her it is resonable to say that since she sees him younger she is reading future lives and not just past ones.
I believe Min's veiwing of Birgitte happens when she first meets her. Possibly in Camyln if someone would like to check out what i said.
10
William Seeker: 2006-03-13
Nazbaque, you've half cracked the writer's code of mysteries. See, in any good book it's the most obvious choice, the one everyone thinks might be it, or it's the one so not obviouse you'd never guess. You picked the not-obvoius guy. Olver is the kind-of obvoius one. Now if Jordan's the kind of writer I think he is, it'i going to be Olver, cause we all asume tht's too "obvoius". But then again it's probally someone else no one's guessed yet. Like Tam or someone.
11
Khazhul: 2006-03-14
A very simple solution to Gaidal and Birgitte's age difference is that she could just die again and be reborn right away. I have not seen anything that proves she is no longer a hero.
The sometimes older sometimes younger could just be Mins view of the different incarnations of Gaidal from the past and future in relation to Birgitte's current age as she appears now.
12
Ishamael666: 2006-03-14
BLOOD AND BLOODY ASHES.
Olver is not Gaidal Cain. RJ SAID SO.
Sorry, just had to get that out of me. And the same logic against Olver being Cain applies to everyone over the age of two.
13
William Seeker: 2006-03-14
Thank you, Ishamael666 for that tidbit. I was not aware. I wonder if we'll ever find out who?
14
Ishamael666: 2006-03-15
Even if we do, he'll be too young to matter for the Last Battle. But he'll be around in the 4th Age.
15
: 2006-03-16
It's been awhile since I posted this theory and I had given up on waiting for it to appear.
It seems that I didn't make it clear. I think that Gaidal was not born to the world as a baby. He wasn't necessarily brought here in the same way Birgitte was, but something very close to that has happened.
TRW, Gaidal is older than Birgitte in T'A'R and Birgitte is not that young.
I am not saying that the swords prove that Mahiro is Gaidal. But the swords are something that has to be there.
**How Cain was just where Rafela was when this happened, at the right time, and how she knew to bond him all left delightfully unanswered.**
How many Aes Sedai are there? Is it such a miracle that one happened to notice an unconscious man who was obviously hurt and naked to boot.
16
Saidar Haran: 2006-03-16
I highly doubt that anything similar to what happened to Birgitte happened to Cain. For one thing, it seems likely that this is the first time it has happened in the current cycle of Ages, and it was a personal vengeance from Moghedien to Birgitte. Moghedgien promised to make Birgitte suffer alone for a long time; if she ripped Gaidal out too, then Birgitte could find him and they would know each other. It is far more likely for him to have been spun out, especially since Birgitte said that it was probably what happened.
17
Stilicho: 2006-03-16
Well, I don't think there's enough evidence to say he's Mahiro, but I'll agree to the extent that there is enough wiggle room in the books for Gaidal Cain to be in the real world (instead of T'A'R) as an adult or child. The most likely explanation is that he was spun out as an infant, but given his love for Birgitte, maybe he found a way to be spun or ripped out in adult form or even as a child instead of waiting on the wheel to bring about his rebirth.
18
Kantuna: 2006-03-16
Many parts of the world (Like the two rivers before TEOTW) haven't seen an Aes Sedai for generations. What are the odds that Cain would appear in a big city, or in a village on the one night it had an AS passing through? That's even if he did come back that way, or isn't just some baby somewhere who's really irrelevant to the story?
19
Khazhul: 2006-03-17
To disprove this theory that Gaidal is not Mahiro is done by your own quote. He is a Kandori lord and well traveled in this time. An unconcious man would not be a lord and he hasn't been out of TAR that long to be that well traveled in these lands.
No, I believe Gaidal is a child somewhere because he would never make himself vulnerable by revealing himself to Moghedian in TAR. He didn't get involved.
20
sogoloth: 2006-03-17
** How many Aes Sedai are there? Is it such a miracle that one happened to notice an unconscious man who was obviously hurt and naked to boot. **
Yes, actually, its an incredible stretch. I have a hard time buying that an AS would find a hurt, naked guy and decide she'd better bond him as a Warder straight away. Sorry man, this theory is just too much of a stretch with lots of supposition, almost no supporting evidence in favor of it, and plenty against.
21
Nazbaque: 2006-03-18
**To disprove this theory that Gaidal is not Mahiro is done by your own quote. He is a Kandori lord and well traveled in this time. An unconcious man would not be a lord and he hasn't been out of TAR that long to be that well traveled in these lands.**
Rafela could have told him all that he knows. And we don't know when was the last time he was spun out. if it happend about two or three centuries ago the man would know the world well enough.
**Yes, actually, its an incredible stretch. I have a hard time buying that an AS would find a hurt, naked guy and decide she'd better bond him as a Warder straight away. Sorry man, this theory is just too much of a stretch with lots of supposition, almost no supporting evidence in favor of it, and plenty against.**
Does the word "ta'veren" mean anything to you?
22
Callandor: 2006-03-18
**How many Aes Sedai are there? Is it such a miracle that one happened to notice an unconscious man who was obviously hurt and naked to boot.**
1. Yes, it is. There are around 1000 Aes Sedai in the world, dominately divided into two major areas: with the rebels or at the Tower. There's some amount spread about the rest of the world in different places, but it only dilutes their numbers. They're not omnipresent, as Moiraine's arrival and staying in the Two Rivers should show you.
2. Say it does happen. What is going to make the Aes Sedai decide -- for no known reason -- to bond such a man? She would have NO IDEA who or what he was, and she would just say "Ah ha! I must bond him!" Elayne only did it because she knew Nynaeve's Healing did absolutely nothing, it wasn't a question of her skill, she knew the weave, and she knew who Birgitte was. Rafela would have incredible reason to doubt this completely, and it just seems ridiculous beyond belief to assume she would randomly bond this man her Warder if she even tried Healing and it failed.
**Rafela could have told him all that he knows. And we don't know when was the last time he was spun out. if it happend about two or three centuries ago the man would know the world well enough.**
You're using your own evidence against yourself. We know when Gaidal was last reborn: whenever Birgitte was last reborn, since they are always reborn for the same time (or close enough in this comparison to make no difference). Birgitte was reborn 4 times in the 3rd Age, and the last time was before there was a Kandor:
**TITLE: Path of Daggers, CHAPTER: 20 - Into Andor
"Oh, yes," Birgitte breathed. "Kandori." Her sickly grin might have been from her injuries; Nynaeve was impatiently shooing Lan out of the way so she could lay hands on her. Elayne hoped the woman knew more of Kandor than the name; when Birgitte had last been born, there had been no Kandor. She should have taken it as an omen.**
So, Gaidal was reborn before the current nations formed, around Hawkwing's time or last in the Trolloc Wars.
Rafela just telling him what he knows first lies upon her finding him -- the equal impossiblity of her saving him by bonding him -- THEN of her believing, understanding, and accepting what the hell was going on.
23
Saidar Haran: 2006-03-20
** **Yes, actually, its an incredible stretch. I have a hard time buying that an AS would find a hurt, naked guy and decide she'd better bond him as a Warder straight away. Sorry man, this theory is just too much of a stretch with lots of supposition, almost no supporting evidence in favor of it, and plenty against.**
Does the word "ta'veren" mean anything to you? **
I fail to see what ta'averen has to do with anything. The Heroes are not automatically Ta'averen, the three known Ta'averen don't even know that Birgitte exists, so wouldn't be trying to help her - even ignoring the fact that they can't control their Ta'averenness. So, I find this theory too far-fetched to credit.
24
Ashaman Zach: 2006-03-20
Okay, firstly, im disgusted. Secondly, if Mahiro is Gaidal, just entertaining you here, HE WOULDN'T KNOW IT. If Birgitte hadn't been ripped out of the world of dreams she would have been reborn, and she wouldn't know that she had had past lives as a Hero! So where ever Gaidal is right now... HE DOESNT KNOW HE IS Gaidal FROM THE STORIES! Thirdly, time flows differently in Tel'aran'rhiod so Gaidal may have been born many years ago. Birgitte said that she has always been younger than him. He may already be Olver's age or older. My bet is on Olver.
25
haertchen: 2006-03-20
How many times do we have to cover this?
RJ has said that time does not flow backwards in T'A'R. It flows at a different rate, but always forwards. Just like the real world.
Thus, if we saw Gaidal as a hero of the horn at some time in T'A'R, we would know that he had not been born yet in the real world. Thus, for instance, he had not been born before a dreamer went to sleep and saw him.
This means that Gaidal is very young (I believe less than a year), unless he was ripped out of T'A'R like Birgette (sp?). The second seems unlikely, and the first puts any on-screen candidates out of the running.
It seems most likely that he is a random child somewhere, just like Birgette said. Olver's similarity to Gaidal seems to have been part of the pattern's design for other reasons which become clear in KoD. Gaidal is probably needed to help rebuild the world in the fourth age after the serious whomping it's going to take at the end of the third age.
26
Elan Morin Tedronai 21: 2006-03-22
A little off topic here, but this theory brings a question to mind that I've wondered about and never really sat down to try and figure out. When Heroes of the Horn are reborn, do they always wind up growing up to look the same as they have in their past lives?? They look the same all the time in TAR, which is the same way they would look if called back by the Horn of Valere, and every story about Birgitte mentions her golden braid and how beautiful she is, as well as how handsome Gaidal Cain is(even though we know it's not true). So the question is this: If Heroes of the Horn always turn out looking the same, then why does Rand, also a Hero, look nothing like Lews Therin except for height(stated by Moggy at the end of Fires of Heaven)??
Just wondering if anybody out there had ever considered that.
27
Mattriarch: 2006-04-18
Everyone argues that Gaidal cannot be older than an infant. One thing that no one has examined is that, unless I'm mistaken, no one has ever SAID right out that Gaidal was reborn...all we have to go on is Birgitte saying she hadn't seen him for a while. For all we know, he could have been avoiding her out of displeasure at her breaking the precepts of Tel'Aran'Rhiod by talking to Nynaeve. Is it impossible that Gaidal was still bound to the Wheel and the World of Dreams when Birgitte was cast out, and, after learning of her fate, somehow willingly quit Tel'Aran'Rhiod to be reborn in the waking world? Perhaps he found a dreamwalker or some channeler who did it for him at his request.
Please keep in mind that I have not yet read Knife of Dreams, so if there's anything in there that disproves me, please say its from KoD and don't tell me anything specific.
28
Canan Urgas: 2006-04-19
Quote "If Birgitte is Elayne's Hero and Gaidal is Min's, will Avi have hers as well? Who?"
whats all this about gaidal cain being mins champion?
29
JakOShadows: 2006-04-19
I think that was a reference to idea that the warder that Min talked to in WH has two swords like Gaidal Cain, so is therefore Gaidal Cain. I personally don't agree with it, and it is a complete logical phalacy not to mention he is way to old to be Gaidal. But anyways, that is the assumption he is basing that statement on.
30
Aan Allein: 2006-04-19
Hey Elan Morin,
I think that they only carry certain traits ie: personality, skills, and abilities... I think that the only people who retain apperance when they are reborn, are those heroes who's apperance is key to who they are.
Birgette is alway beautiful with a long golden braid because it keeps people off guard from expecting too much from her until they encure her wrath, but I think with Gaidal other than size stature and ugliness, always looks a little different.
that is just my two coppers worth
31
Callandor: 2006-04-19
**Is it impossible that Gaidal was still bound to the Wheel and the World of Dreams when Birgitte was cast out, and, after learning of her fate, somehow willingly quit Tel'Aran'Rhiod to be reborn in the waking world?**
Heroes of the Horn only leave tel'aran'rhiod to be reborn into the world -- even Birgitte's enterance into the world is still an example of this (though twisted).
32
Trahelion: 2006-04-21
Just a short response because I don't find this theory particularily primising:
How can you assume so much about a character that has shown little importance throughout the story? Gaidal Cain is...Gaidal Cain and would not be mentioned in this way with not connection at all to the main characters except through an Aes Sedai. And then when you said he is handsome in a rugged sort of way, Gaidal Cain is never mentioned as handsome in any way at all, only ugly. Ugh theres hardly any evidense at all that Mahiro is..anything other than Rafela's Warder. Your theory itself asks questions you should try answering before bringing up an idea out of the blue like that. (sorry about the bluntness but) this theory is more of a wild grab that gives us nothing other than an almost handsome man who holds two swords. Okay? not that unusual sort of guy, soldiers and Warders, any guy who fits the characteristics you described could be a possible Gaidal then. this was longer than i wanted but i dont like this theory much.
33
Aludra: 2006-04-30
According to the images Min saw. Gaidal Cain is much younger than Birgitte. Hence, Olver or another random short ugly little boy who likes busty women.
34
FraKcture: 2006-05-23
While I can in no way endorse the idea that Mahiro is Gaidal Cain, I have not seen any evidence to rule out the possibility that Gaidal was "ripped away" the same way that Birgitte was. I do find it highly unlikely.
Mattriarch asks "Is it impossible that Gaidal was still bound to the Wheel and the World of Dreams when Birgitte was cast out, and, after learning of her fate, somehow willingly quit Tel'Aran'Rhiod to be reborn in the waking world?"
I also find this to be highly unlikely. But impossible? No, I don't think we can rule that it's impossible. But I think we have to trust Birgitte's (and any Hero in T'A'R) knowledge of T'A'R to know for sure that Gaidal was truly reborn and was not "hiding" from her. And doubtful that he could have been "ripped away" without her knowing.
As I said, I don't see enough evidence to say that these things are impossible. But ultimately, I agree that it's far more likely that he's a young babe that will only play a role in the fourth age.
35
Birgitte: 2006-07-01
I'd just like to point out something that's been bugging me. A few people now have said that Birgitte "always" has the braid. That's not necessarily true.
**TITLE: Fires of Heaven, CHAPTER: 36 - A New Name
Elayne took the silver-arrow slowly. Even the fletching feathers appeared to be silver. ?Distinctive,? Thom said conversationally around his pipe. ?And added to the braid... Every story mentions the braid for some reason. Though I?ve found some I think might be her under other names, without it. And some under other names with.**
Birgitte herself mentions it once, but I couldn't find that one. It's a nitpick, I know, but it bugs me.:):)
Anyway, about the actual theory, Naz, it seems like you're suggesting that Gaidal Cain was ripped out of TAR, which doesn't really fit, in a few ways. First of all, it doesn't fit with what Moghedien said to Birgitte about always being alone, as someone already pointed out. Second, why would Rafela bond him? That really makes no sense. She comes across a naked, dying man, tries Healing, which doesn't work, and then decides he'd make a good Warder? It's far more likely that she'd just give up when Healing fails, imo. Third, if he had been ripped out, they probably would have met by now.
I'm all for Birgitte and Gaidal meeting up again and thwarting Moghedien's "forever alone" proclamation, but I don't think it'll happen where we can see it.
I remember something about Warders living longer than normal, but I can't remember exactly what it is. Someone want to remind me, please?:)
36
ScorpiOve: 2006-09-08
Didn't Gaidal disappear around the same time as Rand and Aviendha went for their little trip to Seanchen?
There's a theory for you to chew on.
Though we do not know WHEN during the whole 9 months and 2-15 minutes it takes to make a baby that a person is spun out into the pattern. Is it at birth or at the... ehm... you know.
Also...
About the horn and the heroes:
If the heroes are bound to the horn, what would happen if some are spun out as babies before the last battle? Will they not be there at all then?
A baby can't fight the shadow, even if it IS ugly and has two swords.
To contradict this, maybe the horn does pull the essence of the heroes to itself whether they are five or ninety, or in TAR. Which means that they will leave their bodies for as long as the horn has them summoned and then they return.
Also, and this is the yuckiest of the theories, if the Rand and Aviendha and Gaidal thing would be the true thing... Will the blowing of the horn at the final battle mean that Aviendha will start to give birth to the summoned hero? That might be a key thing in defeating the shadow too, as it would be "the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul" meaning 'blood' as in 'relation' and there is always a little bit of blood involved in giving birth.
37
Callandor: 2006-09-08
**If the heroes are bound to the horn, what would happen if some are spun out as babies before the last battle? Will they not be there at all then?
A baby can't fight the shadow, even if it IS ugly and has two swords.**
Very simple answer: not every Hero that is reborn into the world is needed for the Last Battle. If Cain was spun out, he's intended for events past the Last Battle.
**Also, and this is the yuckiest of the theories, if the Rand and Aviendha and Gaidal thing would be the true thing... Will the blowing of the horn at the final battle mean that Aviendha will start to give birth to the summoned hero?**
1. No, because reborn souls have no reason to be "summoned" to the Horn just because. Heroes are brought into the real world due to being summoned by the Horn or being reborn. Not both.
2. Aviendha is not pregnant. Nynaeve Delved her in The Path of Daggers -- a few months past conception, I can't see not seeing one great big thing like pregancy. That and Aviendha isn't any different so far, and it has been about 7 months since Aviendha and Rand slept together and near the end of Knife of Dreams. No signs of pregnancy in that time? No way. Aviendha isn't pregnant, nor is the supposed child Cain.
38
ScorpiOve: 2006-09-10
Ah yes, I forgot. Elayne is the pregnant one. I mix people up since it's been a while since I read the books.
Still, she can give birth, so the yucky theory still can apply, just not with any part of Gaidal involved. But that has nothing to do with this thread then.
39
Icefly: 2006-09-11
1st post. Hello all.
What if (bear with me here) personalities from the wheel (heroes, dead people, etc.), are inherited by the living not at the time of birth, but later? Like teen-years, or some trigger event (puberity, 1st channeling, etc)? Or, for more wheel-focused people, as the WHEEL determines?
We know that Rand was basically born to be LTT reborn, but LTT didn't come into play until it was the right time. I think Rand had a good 17-18 years to himself. Perhaps all inherited personalities are like this.
This possibility could be used to debunk the "Gaidal is an ugly sword-wielding baby" theory, and would open up the field of canidates considerably. Gaidal could then "embody", for lack of a better term, anyone, boy or man. (I'd like to think of the Wheel, and more importantly, RJ, as having a little more taste than making Gaidal a woman.)
40
JakOShadows: 2006-09-12
Icefly:
Welcome to theoryland. I know you probably haven't read most of this threat(and I don't blame you either), but we have lots of evidence that heroes do not come into people that have already been born into the pattern. There are a few examples that are unique, but that is for a reason. Rand hearing LTT in his head and havin his memories, most people have concluded that it was the break down of the barrier between past lives by the taint. And if they believe differently, they still identify it in some way as a unique situation. Birgitte, the other possible example, was ripped out of t'a'r by Moghedien, which makes her a unique situation. Furthermore, I believe that RJ has said himself that a hero is born into the world, not inserted into a body. So not to be rude, but I think your idea has been proven wrong a while back.
41
Flinnd: 2006-09-13
I just need to add my two cents about an Aes Sedai happening on Gaidal and deciding to bond him to save his life (I know this has been refuted already, but I want to point out another reason for it being, if not impossible, EXTREMELY improbable):
Aes Sedai, being steeped in tradition, find it abhorable that someone would bond a warder without seeking his permission (I don't have the books with me now to find the quote, but it is thought of similarly to rape). SO, if an Aes Sedai happened upon a almost dead naked man on the side of the road, bonding him would likely NEVER come to mind. Elayne pursued that course of action because she hasn't been pulled into the traditions of the Aes Sedai, plus she knew exactly what was at stake and who it was that she was saving.
Also, the consequences to the Aes Sedai of having a warder die make it a very foolish maneuver to bond a man who is almost dead. If healing didn't work, what guarantee is there that the bonding will work to heal? And if the bonding doesn't heal him, then the Aes Sedai is likely to experience the effects of a dead warder.
SO, those reasons alone present a very solid case against Mahiro being Gaidal.
