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ahar Narishma
by Shadow Bane: 2003-07-01 | 1 out of 10 (4 votes)
Previous Categories: He Who Follows After - Callandor
1) From a distant land, Rand remarks on his name being foreign
2)Young, shaves occasionally
3)Strong in the OP almost stronger than Logain
4)Has used Callandor(in a circle with women)
5)Bonded to Merise
That is about all we know about Jahar Narishma, but to me he seems like he would make a good Tamyrlin. He is well liked among the Ashaman, and Aes Sedai. He obeys every order Rand gives him, think about it if he wanted Rand dead he could have just killed him with Callandor after he went to retrieve it. The only concern I have about Jahar is where he came from. Rand travels alot (now) so if Jahar's name sounds foreign he must be from far away (Shara?). I just wanted to get some ideas coming, I mean He who follows after is an important part of TG. To Recap I think Jahar Narishma is He who follows after.
Comments
Tamyrlin: 2003-07-07
This topic cropped up ever since Narishma was sent to retrieve Callandor...like the lap dog he is. Okay, so you have touched on another pet peeve theory of mine. Is there some purpose to writing a prophecy concerning an errand? I can just imagine it, the prophetic message, "And a boy will be sent by the Dragon Reborn to retrieve his sword, Callandor, so the Dragon Reborn can destroy the invading Seanchan army...no wait, that doesn't sound impressive enough, how about, he (errand boy) who draws it out shall follow after, who can grasp that fearful blade, much better." :) I don't buy the idea that Narishma will was that person, or if he was, that it means anything more than he helped Rand out. Logain is destined to take the spot as Tamyrlin, especially since Jahar is bonded...can you imagine a docile bonded Asha'man as their leader?
Shadow Bane: 2003-07-07
I don't feel too strongly either way, the only reason Jahar appealed to me was he has used Callandor more than anyone else but Rand.
Callandor: 2003-07-07
**Jahar Narishma
Allegiance: Dragon Reborn, M'Hael.
Title(s): Dedicated.
A pretty boy, he has big dark eyes and a pale confident face, that has been sun darkened. From Arafel, his hair is in two long braids to his waist with bells on the ends. He was born with the spark and sees deeply. He has deep pride in the sword on his collar.
He was at Dumai's Wells, and afterwards became one of Rand's guards. After the attack on Rand in the Sun Palace, Damar, Jahar and Eben were listed as deserters by Taim and didn't know where to go. So Jahar became Merise's Warder, mostly for protection, but she keeps him on a tight leash.
He is one of the few asha'man Rand trusts, once retreiving Callandor from Tear.**
From the Wheel of Time Character Archive.
juitzhead: 2003-07-07
I actually have to agree with Tam. Logain is destined for glory. Min has been around Jahar and the other AM enough to have had viewing by now to indicate if Jahar has any glory to come. As much as i like Narishma, i dont think he will great glory.
Its good to know that he is one of the few ashaman (along with Flinn) that Rand can trust though.
As far as Logains glory goes, i think he will become Tamyrlin (or at least the new M'Hael). This ties in with the dream Egwene had of Logain stepping over rands body onto the black stone, which may or may not be the speaking stone at the black tower.
Narishma i think is from Arafellin.
checking WOT encyclopedia, yep, hes Arafellin (a borderland nation).
Just wondering, where does it say the he is almost stronger than Logain. Its something ive been very curios about. I would like to know the relative standing order in strength of the main male channelers.
Rhodric: 2003-07-08
maybe we're taking the "after" part of the "he who follows after" prophecy too literally.
maybe it simply means that he who draws out the blade follows the Dragon, ie a good guy pulls it out, not a dreadlord.
Mairashda: 2003-07-08
Narishma is and was more than an errand boy. he is important enough to show up in one of Egwene's dreams wielding Callandor ("A dark young man held an object in his hand that shone so brightly she could not see what it was." CoS Ch.10) but is he the one who "follows after"?
"Into the heart he thrusts his sword.
into the heart to hold their hearts.
Who draws it out shall follow after.
What hand can grasp that fearful blade?" (tSR Ch.21)
We've always assumed that just because Rand thought, this verse told him what he was to do in Tear, it was a description of this event and no other.
But the trouble with prophecy is that you can only tell afterwards... would Rand say, Callandor was his sword?
consider this: "Winter's Heart" is one of the names for the Dark One. so, thrusting a sword into the heart might also be part of the Last Battle, part of defeating the Dark One's Avatar. Rand kills him, drops dead and nobody dares touch the sword for a while...
anyway, Narishma will not end up, leading the Asha'man... but that would not be "following after" Rand anyway. Rand does not get himself involved with the Black Tower too much...
Memnochssoul: 2003-07-08
I can't decide what i think "follows after" can be taken so many ways, follows as rands bodyguard, follows as the leader of the asha'man, its a nice thought about thrusting callandor into the heart meaning into the dark one a: i don't think a sword would hurt him b: the prophesy says he put into the heart to hold their hearts, that doesnt' really fit, even if callandor would kill the dark one it wouldn't be "to hold their hearts" it would be to "save their miserable souls" i think it can be taken as a givin that "put in the heart to hold their hearts" means the heart of the stone to keep the tear people loyal.
Callandor: 2003-07-08
DO is a being or a presence not a body so he doesnt have a heart, Winters Heart is a human name given to him. And you CANT kill the DO. He isnt threaded into the Pattern, he is OUTSIDE the Pattern, he has no thread, he cant be killed.
Pendragon: 2003-07-09
I think we need to look at the prophecy a little closer to close up any loose threads.
"Into the heart he thrusts his sword"
Obviously, Rand did this. Callandor is his sword. The sword hung in Heart of the Stone, a sword that was Prophecised to be claimed by the Dragon. Callandor and the Dragon are linked; it has to be his sword.
"into the heart to hold their hearts"
Rand shoved it into the Heart to keep Tear faithful to him, and for the most part, it worked. It held their hearts.
"Who draws it out shall follow after"
Jahar Narishma drew it out. End of story. He has to follow after. Now, I have no clue what that means. If you were looking for loving insight from the mighty Pendragon, sorry, not today. The only thing I can tell you is Narishma is beyond a shadow of a doubt 'He Who Follows After'.
My own personal little theory though. Logain isn't going to lead the Asha'man. I know, everybody wants him too. But what kind of glory comes from leading a group of men who the rest of the world thinks is insane. Now, I've heard some rumors a little closer to his glory status that he will be the next Tamyrlin, something that hasn't been in existence since the Dragon held the ring, but a LOT has to happen before that. I mean, we have to have the Towers combine, the Seanchan alliance forged, and who could forget about Egwene. She won't be happy about that. So, his glory has to happen before he becomes Tamyrlin, something everyone will know the name 'Logain Ablar' for. Something so great, few men have held such glory. Logain is going to Seal the prison. Its the only logical answer.
Think about it. Logain steps over Rand's body into the black stone. Forget the Black Tower, we are talking the DO's prison here. This is the scenerio I'm pushing. Rand takes on the DO. I remember reading somewhere (somebody post and help me out) that the Dragon will not take on the DO alone. His second is obviously Logain. Rand fails at his task. Logain proceeds to Seal the prison.
I know, it has no merit, no evidence, and about as much credentials as a bum sitting on a corner preaching that the tuna fish sandwich given to him last week by Elvis says the world is going to end when Anna Nicole Smith's head explodes, send tons of air into the atmosphere and destroying our O-Zone. Yeah, you heard me. So, I'm going to contend this theory unti I become an Elder (I've only been here a week and I already can't wait) and then I'll Champion it, if for no better reason that there is no evidence supporting it. Have fun.
Tigraine: 2003-07-09
Hmmm. Wouldn't it be interesting if the Prophecies of the Dragon were about two people, not one? Logain -was- the Dragon Reborn until he was proved to be a False Dragon. Technically, the prophecies could just as easily tie in with him or any other False Dragon (Taim?) if Jordan really wanted to twist us for a loop in the last few books. Just a thought...
rubbernilly: 2003-07-09
Pendragon -
Just to be clear...
I know, it has no merit, no evidence, and about as much credentials as a bum sitting on a corner....
We're in perfect agreement on this.
Mairashda: 2003-07-09
avatar- in hinduism, an incarnation of a god in human or animal form that appears on earth to combat evil and restore virtue.
well obviously the DO's avatar wouldn't do those last things.... but my point is that you might very well be able to destroy the dark one's incarnation without actually killing him.
I believe that the dark one will need a (human, anthropomorph) vessel, a "horse", to be fully able to touch the world.
rubbernilly: 2003-07-09
Well, Moridin is obviously the Champion of the DO, but don't you think that Shaidar Haran is shaping up as the Avatar of the DO, Mairashda (sorry, I just slaughtered your name, didn't i?)?
Do you not see the DO already having an Avatar in SH?
juitzhead: 2003-07-09
"Think about it. Logain steps over Rand's body into the black stone. Forget the Black Tower, we are talking the DO's prison here. This is the scenerio I'm pushing. Rand takes on the DO. I remember reading somewhere (somebody post and help me out) that the Dragon will not take on the DO alone. His second is obviously Logain. Rand fails at his task. Logain proceeds to Seal the prison. "
*puts his hand up* yep, that was me who suggested it (its in the Misc section of BCOT under The Seals).
Its still one of my pet theories but since there's no more evidence, it will stay in the Pet Theories section. If you faction it ill join (or if i get raised to Elder first you can join ;) )
rubbernilly: 2003-07-10
Juitzhead -
Say it isn't so... you agree with the idea that Rand fails?
*shakes head*
I thought you had more sense than that.
:)
That *would* have a great deal of Beowulf in it, in that Beowulf succeeded with Grendal and his mother, but then could not defeat the Dragon, and needed... Hrothgar? to take up the mantle as defender of his people.
Mairashda: 2003-07-10
Shaidar Haran is the Dark One's Hand. It does have certain abilities but it is tied to Shayol Ghul and there may be other restrictions we do not know about yet. Shaidar Haran is part of the Dark one but it is not a full incarnation. An avatar would essentially be the Dark One in his full power clothed in human flesh. but thats just like... my opinion.
juitzhead: 2003-07-14
never fear rubbernilly, it isnt so. The post suggested they would work together. Rand would not be able to handle the DO and rebuild the prision by himself so he would need help. So Rand fights the DO and Logain re-builds the prision with the AM.
With events in CoT, Logain and Rand meeting & immediatly sending him out on a mission. Logain telling Rand about Taim, which i assume would make Rand trust Logain, then i dont think it unlikely that they would work together.
Afterall, it took 113 male Aes Sedai and LTT to seal the DO in his prision in the AOL.
rubbernilly: 2003-07-15
OK, the working together part I can see. In CoT they fall into line like they've known each other for quite some time - an INCREDIBLY anti-climactic and unsatisfying meeting if you ask me. But I don't agree that Rand falls at TG and Logain has to finish the battle.
Elder Haman: 2003-09-21
Okay- First, Rand will not face the Dark One alone. He will have companions- Mat and Perrin! plus a whole host of other lesser charactors to help out, and maybe Logain will be one of them.
Logian is destined for glory- I think he's destined for glory because he's the one who will save the Black Tower from going over to the Dark One, (just like Egwene's task is to keep the White Tower from joining the Dark One).
As for Narishma- The absence of a Min vision does not prove anything (she doesn't see everything). He is obviously the one who follows after. I agree it did seem rather anti-climatic, I was sure it was going to be Logain who pull the Sword from the Stone. But... maybe there is something very important in Narishma's selection- Rand CHOOSE him. This is a big thing- I think Rand was insane to be giving Callador to another channeler- also, Narishma says Rand didn't tell him everything, was this a kind of test? So... what does it mean to "follow after"
1: Follower- servant, companion ect.
2: Heir- successor, ect
3: The next one- maybe it just means Narishma won't achieve glory until after the whole Last Battle thing is over?
I always thought is was an conglomoration of all these traits, but who knows.
kikyo: 2003-09-22
Follows after could also mean something much more literal ... in the last battle Rand is supposed to go down into Shayol Gul to fight the DO ... perhaps Narishma is the one who follows after there? I can see Rand doing his thing down there and dropping dead, or almost dead and Narishma coming in after him and being the one to carry him out ... but like others have said, follows after could mean many things, it doesn't have to mean he will be Tamyrlin. In fact, it's not likely to me that it does. Rand is not Tamyrlin, at least not yet, so someone who became Tamyrlin would not be following after anyone, except someone in the age of legends. I think that Narishma is the one who follows after, but we don't know what that consists of yet. It is not becoming Tamyrlin.
Deadsy: 2003-09-22
I agree that he's the one who follows after. Him and Logain can both be important. I don't think it matters that he's bonded to Merise. Merise was very concerned in COT that Jahar was almost as strong as she and getting stronger. I think she's worried that she won't be able to control him once he is, just like Alanna can't control Rand.
Rhuark: 2003-10-09
I'm up to the LOC in my third re-read and came across a section which made me think of this theory.
Rand is hiding in the columns of The Heart of The Stone spying on the Wise One/Aes Sedai where Egwene is summoned to Salidar by the Aes Sedai.
After they leave he steps out from the columns and thinks to himself about Callandor and the prophecy about the one who follows after. Therefore Rand is quite aware that it is an important event. He conciously chooses Narishma to retrieve Callandor so he has either been privy to a Min viewing we dont know about or has complete trust in Narishma (Weird because he hardly even trusts his close friends anymore).
We are also told quite clearly about Narishma when Taim appears in Rands apartments and kills the Gholam. This happens just before (or just after) the scene in the Heart Of The Stone. Its a bit weird how Taim makes a trip just to tell Rand about finding a channeler with the Spark. Rand makes a comment about making him learn quickly blah blah blah (Wish I had quotes but I'm at work!)I think its a serious case of foreshadowing from RJ.
Narishma is He Who Follows After.
Cor Shan: 2003-10-09
It only took LTT to seal the prison Juitzhead; Men can't link without women(but they can try to work off each other); a full CK 72 cirle would seal the prison pretty well.
Ellistann: 2003-11-22
I know this is semi-legalistic and hair spliting, but after he got the sword out, didn't he just "follow after" Rand just to deliver the blasted thing?
maybe he's already done it by following after rand and gave him Callandor.
Thousanth Son: 2003-11-23
Perhaps Narishma is going to be the New Dragon. Not in Reality but in the eyes of some of the people.
When Rand Fights the Last Battle, it is very likely that he will either die, or be injured. We have also heard rumors that he may just go find somewhere quiet to live.
Now there is gonna be need of someone to patch things up with the world, and someone for them to look to. They need the Dragon Reborn. But Rand may not be there, well who better than the man who drew and wields Callandor?
The People would follow him as they would the Dragon Reborn, because how many other people can wield it? And not many people know what Rand looks like, because he doesnt advertise his face a lot or anything. So Jahar could slip into the possition to help heal the world.
Cor Shan: 2003-11-23
One : Jahar has a bit of a contest with Logain for suck-upiness to Rand
Two: Logain is going to be Tamerlyn (Halo of Glory to come)
Three: If Logain is Tamrlyn beside Egwene as Amerlyn, Jahar could be a false dragon to Help the world.... I like that idea
mako0424: 2003-12-08
i always took it to mean that Rand is the Dragon and will best the DO, to anti-climatic for readers if other wise happened,
2. Logain will be new Tamrylin after besting Taim (still Sammael in my opinion) and lead the new Black Tower (black rock)
3. Jahar is a strong one-powered trustee to Rand, maybe through some Min viewing we dont know about, but either way Rand trusted him to retrieve Callandor. It was very anti-climatic so maybe through this RJ meant for the reader to pay less attention. He is a major factor and will follow to fight the DO with Rand, but Rand won't have Callandor, Jahar will. And most likely Cadsuane and Merise or something will be the other two linked with him, or possibly like Alivia and Nynaeve for an Trio combination of ultimate one power, seeing as both are some of the strongest female channelers and Jahar one of the three strongest good male channelers (after Rand, Logain (possibly) Taim)
free will: 2003-12-08
kikyo-
"Rand is not Tamyrlin, at least not yet, so someone who became Tamyrlin would not be following after anyone, except someone in the age of legends" Correct, except that that someone from the Age of Legens is LTT, aka Ran.
Rhuark-
If Rand thinks he understands the Prochephy (and maybe he does, because of the *finn), then maybe Rand sent Narishma to retrieve Callandor because Rand believed that IF Narishma retrieved Callanor THEN Narishma would follow him (whether literally to bring it back to figuratively to become a follower).
Khaos: 2004-01-21
Reading the prophecy I think the whole thing is merely a foretelling of the Asha'man.
Into the heart he thrusts his sword.
into the heart to hold their hearts.
Who draws it out shall follow after.
What hand can grasp that fearful blade?" (tSR Ch.21)
If you read the last two lines in this manner that the After part refers to the drawing being performed by someone who follows the Dragon After Callandor was driven into the stone. And I think the following reference is more significant in that Narishma not only acknowledges Rand as the Dragon but becomes one of his 'Guardians'.
The final line about what kind of hand could draw this blade I think is a reference that it has to be a male channeller.
My interpretation is that it isn't significant that Narisham drew Callandor merely that it was a signal that an Asha'man and not Rand who would do so.
Philosopher: 2004-01-21
I think it probably refers to things after TG. Jahar is noted as young on many occasions. Chances are, if he survives TG, he will live for many years after. Recall that Rand is not just a destroyer - he tries to be a builder as well (starting the school, for example). I think Jahar is going to be the one to rebuild the world after TG. He may even become the M'Hael _after_ Logain, whether Logain survives TG or not.
sojihn: 2004-02-09
Blood and bloody ashes,people! Look at the prophecy ands deduce from ther it isn't all trickery and some play on words. It is a literal meaning. "Into the heart he thrusts his sword..." Rand replaces Callandor in the Heart of Tear(the Stone). "Into the Heart he holds their hearts..." When he takes the Heart of Tear he fulfills the part of the Kareathon Cycle. But here's the real killer.. "He who Draws it out shall follow after..." Is not a referance to a new person, but is rather a refereance to Rand himself, he follows after LTT by drawing Callandor. And finally "What hand can grasp that fearful blade." Refers to a woman since there seems to be taint on the sword that cannot be touched, in which a man and two women must be present to wield it. Remember that LTT never was mentioned as actually using callandor ever.
brother of Battles: 2004-04-08
Ok, try this.....
The Amyerlin has a "Keeper of the scrolls" or whatever you call it. In all aspects it is the number two AS in the white tower.
So, I agree whole heartly that Logain will be the new Tamyrlin, but can't he have a number two as well? Jahar Narishma, by that time, will be one of the oldest Ashaman, and he is pretty powerful. Plus, maybe the Prophacy is missing a comma? Maybe it is supose to read...."He who follows, after."
If he becomes number two in the Black Tower, then he will follow AFTER TG. Fills the prophacy perfectly.
Anubis: 2004-04-08
um... so jin, i would assume that lews therin used it at least once seeing as it belonged to him. and anyways saidin wasnt tainted back when lews therin would have been using callandor.
Grady: 2004-04-08
I've thought that Jahar is he who follows after also and I think it implies more than just bringing Rand Callandor when asked to fetch it. Like others here have mentioned, Taim made a special trip to inform Rand of Jahar's arrival, Rand knew the bit about he who follows after was important and sent Jahar when he could have trusted Flinn,Ebon,Grady,or Fedwin to do the same thing. I think RJ is foreshadowing something important that will happen between Rand and Jahar soon. CoT made me think of it again when Merise was telling Cadsuane how upset Jahar had become when she had taken the Dragon Rand had given him...I just don't think his following after means his purpose was to bring Rand the sword. RAFO I suppose...
Elder Haman: 2004-04-08
Just a thought- after Rand sends Jahar to retrive Callandor, Jahar comes back and tells Rand that he nearly got killed because Rand didn't tell him everything- but Rand thinks to himself that of course he did-
What does anyone make of this? I remember when I read it that I thought it was strange, and must have something to do with this prophecy
Stilicho: 2004-08-12
Nah, I don't buy Narishma as Tamyrlin. very minor character etc. Think: who better to head up organization of male AND female OP users after TG than Logain (glory to come ala Min)who is already leading combined male/female OP users. Rand will have alot of "baggage" due to the toes he must step on to accomplish his goals, plus he will probably not want any such role for himself-preferring to spend quality time with his 3 beautiful wives. Logain is your man. It makes too much sense and RJ is already foreshadowing Logain's role as leader of joint OP users.
1337ist Gary: 2005-02-13
Put aside who will follow after, just what is meant by 'follow after?' Who are they going to follow? Probability is high they are following rand, so where has rand gone that he follows. Ide say Rand dissappears somewhere in the game and narishma chases after him. Probably into the pit of doom/another world/anywhere
Topaz Ashaman: 2005-02-13
Hi, first time poster here so bear with me. I figured I'd give my thoughts on the comment that Elder Haman made, specifically : "Just a thought- after Rand sends Jahar to retrive Callandor, Jahar comes back and tells Rand that he nearly got killed because Rand didn't tell him everything- but Rand thinks to himself that of course he did-
What does anyone make of this? I remember when I read it that I thought it was strange, and must have something to do with this prophecy "
The way I figure it, at that point in Rand is still struggling with the whole "Crazy dead guy in my head telling me to kill all Asha'man" phase. He may have been expressing a little bit of his unconscious in "inadvertantly" forgetting to tell Narishma a crucial point to removing Callandor and subsequently frying him from all the nasty surprises he stuck on. He probably did want Narishma to retrieve Callandor, but LTT snuck into his mind a little bit.
Canan Urgas: 2006-04-19
"Into the heart he thrusts his sword.
into the heart to hold their hearts.
Who draws it out shall follow after.
What hand can grasp that fearful blade"
about the following after bit, i heard some loon theory that narishma would be the next dragon! impossible