Tamyrlin: 2003-12-19

(Frenzy for Tamyrlin)
I, too, have often wondered why Gitara sent Luc to the Blight (not the Waste, like you've said, but that's probably a typo). He left before Tigraine went to the Waste, perhaps Luc had to be out of the way before Tigraine could/would leave. But why the Blight, and not just have him killed in a hunting accident or soemthing? Perhaps this is one instance where Gitara misinterprets one of her Foretellings. OR, like you've said, there's more to Slayer's future than we've seen.

bayoegb: 2003-12-19

I have to agree i think that slayer could be more important than he seems to be right now because why would Gitara send Luc to the Blight so that he could be turned to an assasin for the Dark One, so I have to agree that Slayer will play a crucial part to helping Rand win

mako0424: 2003-12-23

I also think RJ is one for dramatics. I think Slayer/Isam/Luc is a deadly combo, but lets say Isam, the evil wolf-killing assassin for tghe dark one, has control over the body, but when TG rolls around and Slayer sees Elayne or he finds out Rand is his nephew or something, he will take control of Slayer (Luc/Isam combo) and help TG afterall, (for the better becoz not only was Gitara agood AS, but i think she understood fortellings weel enough).

Murrin: 2003-12-23

It is possible that Luc/Isam has already played his part. Rand is not the only one crucial to the Last Battle - Perrin is just as important. Since Luc went to the Blight, then Slayer came into existance. Slayer brought Trollocs to the Two Rivers, and caused Perrin to be forced into the circumstances which made him into a leader, which was part of his shaping so that he is able to fulfil his role in the Last Battle. Without Slayer, Perrin would not have become ready to take up this role, and his part in TG would have been failed.

a dragonburned fool: 2003-12-25

I like the idea of Slayer having crucial role in TG, but there is also the possibility, that Luc was sent for doing something and he failed. Moiraine said some times that even the prophecied ta'veren the Dragon reborn could fail.

Dorindha: 2003-12-27

Foretellings are hazy: Gitara may not have known that Luc would turn out bad, just that he had to go. I can't think of much more to say about that as it is just pure speculation. MAybe her foretelling was more Andor-centric, and needed Luc out of the way so Elayne's family could come to prominance?

Far Aldazar Din: 2003-12-27

it is not likley that the sight of rand will turn slayer to good b/c in winters heart, slayer is trying to kill "his nephew and hi wnch" that can only be rand and min.

Arien Sedai: 2003-12-27

Maybe she was a Darkfriend herself.

Frenzy: 2004-01-02

i seriously doubt Gitara was a Darkfriend. She had too much of a hand in setting up the Light side of events for the last 30 years to be a Darkfriend.

Luc/Slayer may be a Shadow co-opt of Light prophecy. Or it could be that Slayer will be crucial to the Last Battle in a way we don't know about. (personally, i hope it involves dying a messy death at Lan's hand, but that's just me.)

Turandil: 2004-04-15

mako0424:

Slayer already knows about who Rand is. He said as much when he appeared out of TAR into a bedroom in Far Madding.

waterbucket: 2004-05-03

For everyone who says Isam is the evil wolf killing assasin and Luc is just body, give it up.

Winter's Heart Ch. 21 - A Matter of Property

"He became Isam. Isam liked killing wolves even more than Luc did."

They're both evil assasins.

IkilledAsmodean: 2004-08-25

He's also, by leaving, done two other minor things that assisted greatly in events.

1) assured that the Andorian royal line would pass Moragse's way.

2) He kills Rand's real father, thus setting Rand up to be a true cheif, wiht no living relative over him.

While these seem quite minor...they may have a huge effect on the last battle.

Mallo: 2005-02-22

If Luc is Rand's uncle, that makes him a blood relative, correct? And don't the prophecies of the dragon say something about, "His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul?" Gitara did not know it, but he was sent there to become evil and *theory theory theory* therefore have to fight Rand in SG. The familial blood of Rand Al'Thor fufills that part of the prophecy, and in doing so, allows Rand to die in a way that CAN be healed.

Callandor: 2005-02-23

**The familial blood of Rand Al'Thor fufills that part of the prophecy, and in doing so, allows Rand to die in a way that CAN be healed.**

There is no way to Heal death. Death is woven and decided by the Pattern and it is impossible to change the course of the Pattern. Alter, yes, only ta'veren can do that; change, no. No one can do that.

There are only two lives after death:

1. The Dark One transmigrates you. This seems to require a person willingly giving over their soul to the Dark One in the Pit of Doom. Obviously, Rand will not do this one.

2. To be spun out again by the Wheel's descretion. You are not you again. It is your soul in a different body, in most likely another Age.

The only other possible way to cure death, is for the Creator to do it. The Creator never, ever, intervenes and never, ever, will. So that option is useless.

What's left? Rand dies, his soul lives on to be reborn again and again with the turning of the Wheel.

Aiel Finn: 2005-02-23

What about the royal family of Andor being important for the LB. Morgasse seems to be in a place where she will be important, Galad will be bringing the WC, Gwayn will be with the younglings, Elayne is obvious, Rand is obvious, it looks like all the other royal familiy memebers will be important Luc probably will be too.

Yaga Shura: 2005-02-23

Maybe Slayer will be killed at Shayol Ghul and because Luc is a blood relative of Rand this will fulfil the blood on the rocks part of the prophecy.

Mallo: 2005-02-23

Actually, death can be healed. Rand held Callendor in Tear and brought the little girl back to life. She still was not able to live because of how she was killed- if I remember correctly, she had been stabbed or impaled. If Nynaeve or Alivia held a strong enough angreal, they could probably do it, too. Heck, Nyna might not even need an angreal, since she has been able to do the impossible before, which is heal being stilled.

Nothing in impossible, and RJ has shown us that time and again in the books.

Callandor: 2005-02-24

**Actually, death can be healed. Rand held Callendor in Tear and brought the little girl back to life. She still was not able to live because of how she was killed- if I remember correctly, she had been stabbed or impaled. If Nynaeve or Alivia held a strong enough angreal, they could probably do it, too. Heck, Nyna might not even need an angreal, since she has been able to do the impossible before, which is heal being stilled.**

No, Rand did not bring the girl back to life.

**TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 10 - The Stone Stands

He would not listen. The Power was in him. Callandor blazed, and he was the Power. *He channeled, directing flows into the child's body, searching, trying, fumbling; she lurched to her feet, arms and legs unnaturally rigid and jerky.* "Rand, you cannot do this. Not this!"

*Staring into those dead eyes, Rand slowly withdrew the flows.* The body fell stiffly. The body. He threw back his head and howled, as wild as any Trolloc. Braided fire sizzled into walls and ceiling as he lashed out in frustration and pain. Sagging, he released saidin, pushed it away; it was like pushing away a boulder, like pushing away life. Strength drained out of him with the Power. The taint remained, though, a stain weighing him down with darkness. He had to ground Callandor on the floor tiles and lean on it to stay on his feet.**

A body moving because flows of the One Power are going into it, is not life.

Treyal the Ogier being "alive" is quite subjective because he could walk around, but "nobody was home" (direct quote from RJ) in him; IE: no soul.

**Nothing in impossible, and RJ has shown us that time and again in the books.**

No, it's impossible for a person to fly with the One Power; it's impossible for males to link with other males without a woman; and it's impossible to Heal death since a death is foretold and foreplanned by the Pattern and no one bound of and apart of the Pattern can change the weave of the Pattern. No one. Death is unHealable.

Yaga Shura: 2005-02-24

Don't you think it's a little odd that modern medicine in the real world can bring people back to life if they are technically dead but the channelers in Randland can't? They are just doing it wrong because they don't have a very good understanding of medicine and physiology, apart from the use of herbs.

Aiel Finn: 2005-04-21

True, complete death cannot be healed. But massive blood loss, head trauma, et. al can be. We don't bring people back from the dead now. We just start their hearts again. Nyn could do that.

Callandor: 2005-04-22

**True, complete death cannot be healed. But massive blood loss, head trauma, et. al can be. We don't bring people back from the dead now. We just start their hearts again. Nyn could do that.**

Complete death....

Look, I don't know about anyone else, but death is death. There is no "complete death" unless it's balefiring of a Forsaken (and that was surely not suggested for Rand).

Rand being Healed of his wounds -- no death there. Severe wounds -- yeah, what's your point? Still not death.

When Rand is cut in two for an hour and lying on the ground obviously pure and simply DEAD (no life, no pulse, no nothing -- simply gone), and the he is "Healed" of this, is the day that another author has taken over.

Death is perscribed by the Pattern in all sense. And as the BWB book states simply: a person inside and of the Pattern cannot change the Pattern (most likely different words, but very similar to that; I have the quote just don't want to quote it for the 4th or 5th time most likely). Ta'veren do not change the Pattern -- they alter it; minor difference by important. A ta'veren can make it so that things that have a 1 chance in an 100 of happening, happen nearly everyday. But they cannot make it so that things blatantly impossible happen -- example: they can't make a woman, into a man in reality (if you call mascarading as one a full change I won't even talk to you then).

Changing the course of someone's thread in the Pattern by changing when, where, how, and why they die is, for all we have been given, simply impossible because of the constraints given.

Hence, Rand cannot be Healed to life, once he is dead.

Ozymandias: 2005-04-24

Isn't it possible that Slayer has to be there just because his presence is necessary? For example, maybe he is the one that takes out Mat's eye, and therefore spurs Mat on to do something, etc etc etc, thing happen. This is pure speculation, but we know that certain characters HAVE to have a presence for Rand to win (Min, Elayne, Aviendha), so why can't it be the same way for Luc/Slayer/Isam?

Callandor: 2005-04-24

**This is pure speculation, but we know that certain characters HAVE to have a presence for Rand to win (Min, Elayne, Aviendha), so why can't it be the same way for Luc/Slayer/Isam?**

Yes, from Min's viewing some people have to be present, but not the ones you listed.

1. Rand

2. Mat

3. Perrin

4. Nynaeve

5. Egwene

6. Lan

7. Thom

8. Moiraine

(I keep thinking that I am forgetting someone (hehe, maybe Bela too ;)), so if I forget someone, feel free to add them).

Elayne and Aviendha are clearly not in this part, because they were not introduced to the story yet. It's my belief that when the Last Battle happens, Elayne, Aviendha, and Min are in Caemlyn while the kids are born (Elayne's I mean).

Min is a possibility. She does not refer to herself as in the "group" so she might be apart of it, but I personally doubt it. Hence, why she can be Caemlyn.

Rhiale: 2006-01-07

For one thing, in Far Madding, It could be, since Isam and Luc are one person, that he wanted to kill Lan an Nyn, because Lan is Isam's nephew, I think. could be reading into it wrong, but that could explain another twist thrown in to confuse, RJ seems to like keeping us readers thinking. As for how he could help TG, there are many ways to look at it. First of all with "his blood on the rocks of SG". Luc is related to Rand, so the same blood. Galad is related to Rand, same blood. Any of thes three could spill blood there and fulfill that prophecy. Also, naybe Luc or Galad has something to do with the supposed death of Rand.

If one of them deals a potentially fatal blow to Rand, his blood would bo on the rocks. Would make since if Luc/Isam uses the TAR ability to sneak up on Rand to kill him. Could also help with "to live you must die". Luc/Isam kills Rand, the balefire is used on him, erasing him before Rand is killed, but blood is still spilled on the rocks, so on and so forth. So by sending him to the blight, Gitara could be insuring, without her knowledge, that Luc will kill or wound the Dragon Reborn at SG. Thus fulfilling who knows how many prophecies for who knows how many people. Just my opinion. If this has been said, sorry for bothering, didn't have time to read them all, this was just on my mind.

Callandor: 2006-01-08

**For one thing, in Far Madding, It could be, since Isam and Luc are one person, that he wanted to kill Lan an Nyn, because Lan is Isam's nephew, I think.**

No, Isam is Lan's cousin; Luc is Rand's uncle (making Rand his nephew, explaining the comment "his nephew and the wench").

lurk: 2006-01-09

Isn't slayer also hunting Fain?

If so maybe he is needed to destroy Fain before he can destroy Rand?

Callandor: 2006-01-09

Yes, Slayer is still ordered by Moridin to kill Fain, as of Winter's Heart -- presumably still.

logger: 2010-10-21

I don't know if replying to a very old post will revive it, but I have become convinced that Slayer/Luc/Isam will play a major role in the last two books. The original post here, made by Yoshi in 2003, talks about how Gitara, the AS with foretelling, convinced Luc that he needed to go to the Blight because (possibly) the Last Battle depended on him. Gitara later sent Rand's mom to the Aiel, and we know THAT had some big consequences.

In my previous post, I mentioned that Slayer seemed to have a connection to the Tower of Ghenjei, since he fled into (or somewhere near) it. It was pointed out to me that RJ said, point blank, that no one can enter the ToG in Tel. But why would Slayer run all the way there just to pop out of Tel? My theory is that he may be sort of a Gollum figure, pretty much evil and in things for his own reasons, but critical to the defeat of the DO in the Last Battle.

So, why would such a major character bring Perrin to the Tower of Ghenjei? A few possibilities come to mind:

1. Slayer has knowledge about the ToG, and may get involved with the Operation Moiraine.
2. Isam was of the 'Finns when he merged with Slayer, and Slayer actually DID get into the ToG.
3. Perrin will have some interaction with the 'Finns that will be pivotal in the Last Battle.

But none of these seems quite right. Maybe it's just the the 'Finns and Slayer are among my favorite characters. But I would really appreciate it if any of you bright folks are able to develop any of these thoughts, or thoughts that touch on the subject.

Many Thanks,
logger

Songsinger: 2010-10-23

Far Aldazar Din: 2003-12-27
It is not likley that the sight of rand will turn slayer to good b/c in winters heart, slayer is trying to kill "his nephew and his wench" that can only be rand and min.

BUT even tho he IS evil, he has never seen Rand, he does not know he looks like his mother and Rands mother WAS Lucs beloved sister! and the words of the dark prophesy said that "both are" ie it is not just isam in lucs body.

lurk: 2006-01-09
Isn't slayer also hunting Fain?

If so maybe he is needed to destroy Fain before he can destroy Rand?

I like that twist ... so maybe THAT is the manner that "his blood will save mankind"? So Luc kills fain to save Rand who looks like Luc's sister just as Fain is about to kill Rand`?

Callandor: 2005-04-24
**This is pure speculation, but we know that certain characters HAVE to have a presence for Rand to win (Min, Elayne, Aviendha), so why can't it be the same way for Luc/Slayer/Isam?**

Yes, from Min's viewing some people have to be present, but not the ones you listed.

1. Rand
2. Mat
3. Perrin
4. Nynaeve
5. Egwene
6. Lan
7. Thom
8. Moiraine

I do not think Nynaeve has to be present. At the end of the great hunt, Egwene and Min are drawn to Rand by the feeling of "invisible strings" and Nynaeve is not.

wotfreak222: 2010-10-24

@Songsinger:
I don't think that Slayer is after Rand and Min in Far Madding. In fact, I believe there is strong evidence that he is after Lan and Nynaeve. Since Slayer seems to be a combination of Luc and Isam, Lan is also his nephew.

Homeschool: 2010-10-24

@WOTFREAK222 - Isn't Isam a cousin to Lan?

wotfreak222: 2010-10-25

@Homeschool....
Now that I think of it, I believe you are correct. Hmm...makes me rethink some of what I've believed about Slayer for a long time. Can't believe I missed that....damn... :)