ogain, Cadsuane and the future
by Hank McCoy: 2004-10-26 | 5.29 out of 10 (7 votes)
There are many theories swirling about regarding Min's viewing as to what Cadsuane is going to teach the Asha'man and Rand. Many believe she is going to be the one who helps Rand relearn how to laugh and cry. I disagree with this. There are many debates about Cadsuane teaching Rand and the Asha'man to laugh and cry. I suggest all who are interested to search the boards and draw your own conclusions. However, I, along with others, have determined what truly Cadsuane is going to teach the Asha'man and Rand.
The answer is neatly laid out in the books, yet, sometimes RJ is so obvious that we miss what is right in front of our noses because we are so used to having to search for hidden meanings. Now give me a few minutes before you make any decisions or start writing a response. Cadsuane is going to teach Rand and the Asha'man to trust, respect and link with Aes Sedai. Now I know this has been proposed before but where this theory is different is I know how she is going to do it. At the of CoT Logain Albar reunited with Rand. Now what is known of Logain?
1) We know from Min's viewings that Logain is going to experience greatness only few men dream of.
2) We know that Logain is on Rand's side even if Rand does not trust him.
3) We know that Logain bonded Toveine Gazal and Gabrelle when the WT launched a failed assault on the BT.
Okay, so what does Logain have to do with Cadsuane and her lesson? Well, it is quite simple. Cadsuane, for some reason that has not been divulged, knows that Callandor is flawed and can only safely be wielded by TWO WOMEN and a ONE MAN. The catch is the women have to direct the flows. Now, it is widely known that almost all men in the 3rd Age distrust Aes Sedai. This distrust is rooted even deeper in male channelers and rightfully so. So why would a man submit a power as awesome as Callandor to two women he greatly distrusts. He would not unless he has been educated on the benefits of men and women wielding the OP together and/or if he does trust the women. Rand could have Elayne, Aviendha, or even Nynaeve join with him since he does trust these women. However, I do not think he will have the opportunity because of future events (I am not going to predict everything). So, who does that leave that is trusted enough and powerful enough to use Callandor? Logain! Cadsuane is going to direct Logain, Toveine and Gabrelle to properly use Callandor in a great fashion, perhaps saving Rand. Logain is an obvious person to use Callandor because he can be trusted, he is strong with the OP and he has two women channelers he can explicitly trust. With the successful use of Callandor Logain will accomplish three things:
1) Gain the trust of Rand.
2) Either achieve his greatness or set the mechanism in motion for him to achieve his greatness.
3) Provide the necessary example of what can be accomplished with men and women working together with the OP that Cadsuane needs to teach Rand and the Asha'man.
In conclusion, Cadsuane will be able to successfully teach her lesson if she has an overwhelming example to prove her point. Cadsuane's example will be Logain, Toveine and Gabrelle successfully wielding Callandor. Furthermore, this will neatly stitch together several loose ends in the story line. The first will be Logain's role in the series. With him using Callandor to achieve a great accomplishment, Logain will prove his trustworthiness to Rand and will experience the greatness foreseen by Min. The second will be the first preeminent example in the 3rd Age of men and women working together with the OP (what a coincidence that the taint was recently removed). With men and women working together again with the OP a new Age will be ready to emerge after the Last Battle.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2005-01-03
(Frenzy for Tamyrlin)
Trusting Aes Sedai enough to submit to them definitely fits the bill of Min's viewing. But i think Cadsuane'd have an easier time teaching Rand and the Asha'man to remember their humanity. Or to dance the sa'sara for the Empress.
How would you fit Rand's linking with Nynaeve with the Choedan Kal into this theory?
2
Callandor: 2005-01-04
Well, it's a nice secondary theory. Cadsuane teaching Rand as well as all the other Asha'man certainly ain't a once mentioned foreshadowing; it's pretty obviously stated. It just fits quite well with Rand and the Asha'man's view of having to fight absolutely everything all the time.
But nevertheless, there isn't anything that I can see as wrong at all with this theory as well. Just don't see it as much of an important issue, than the emotional stability of the Asha'man and Rand ;).
3
UberAshaman: 2005-01-04
if i recall correctly, Toveine and Gabrelle are trying to bring Logain and amazingly not liking/trusting him, so why would Logain have any reason to trust them????!!??!?
4
TheJester: 2005-01-04
I'm not sure about Cadsuane and Logain having a good relationship as it was Cadsuane that captured Logain and then handed him over to the Red sisters that took him to Caemlyn.
I'm not sure he'd be too happy to meet the woman that was in effect responsible for having him gentled but who has in fact embraced, follows and has become the advisor of another man that can channel. Whilst the mitigatin gcircumstances are that she is advisor to the Dragon Reborn, but he is aware that she has tolerated the presence of other men that can channel, the Asha'man with Rand.
Can you say that he'd really get past his animosity that she had one rule for him and a different rule for everyone else?
5
a dragonburned fool: 2005-01-04
Interesting and well looking idea. The only problem I see in it is, that Cadsuane seems not so much needed here. Logain already has trust to Tovaine. Rand would need her maybe, but Logain not.
6
bigjellybeans: 2005-01-04
I see it as a cute theory. This is a possibility of occuring but I do not think it will be what Cadsuane means by teaching Rand something. I think her plan of teaching Rand to laugh and cry again will have something to do with the travelling weave she was taught by the Aiel woman (i forgot who). I think she will use this weave instead to go find somebody that can have that profound impact on Rand and I see Tam as that person.
7
terez: 2005-01-05
I have been thinking that linking would have something to do with Cadsuane's lesson to the Ashaman for some time now. There are other hints you did not mention. The rebels have already decided it must be done in the hall. Tarna Feir brought the subject up with Pevara. Bonding, that is. All things in RJ's world have balance, and linking has long been the women's balance against men's stregnth. They can go up to 13 without a man, and a man can not link at all without a woman. The biggest link possible is a circle of 72 with 6 men and 66 women. Imagine a circle like this made up of the strongest women to be found among the AS, Aiel, Sea Folk, Kin, and Seanchan, all with angreal and the Sa'angreal. Defeat the Dark One? 72 Companions? The patch's faliure is suggested as having failed because of the lack of women. Men and Women will definitely learn to work together before the end of the series. I can't wait until Nynaeve gets ahold of the Oath Rod. But what does Logian and Callandor have to do with this? RJ has lain no hints about any such thing. I think Logain's glory will have more to do with a battle against Taim and Taim's lackies while Rand is indisposed somehow. (Seanchan capture? The Sickness?)
8
Jay al Ender: 2005-01-06
They linked with Callandor at the end of Winter's Heart with two women and a man.
Old news.
I think Cadsuane is going to do a something a little more interesting then something that has already been done. Else why would it be a big deal?
9
A Novice Accepted: 2005-01-07
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Callandor's flaw had something to do with the taint on the male half of the one power; and now that is not an issue...
10
terez: 2005-01-07
THE PATH OF DAGGERS Ch.27 "The Bargain" p.540 HB
"It is flawed," (Cadsuane) replied curtly, "lacking the buffer that makes other sa'angreal safe to use. And it apparently magnifies the taint, inducing wildness of the mind. So long as a man is using it, anyway. The only safe way for you to use The Sword That is Not a Sword, the only way to use it without the risk of killing yourself, or trying to do the Light alone knows what insanity, is linked with two women, and one of them guiding the flows."
So, even without the taint, Callandor still lacks the buffer. Without the taint, a man could probably guide the flows, but must still link with two others, one of which must obvously be a woman, since men cannot link without them, to obtain control of Callandor.
11
Gareth: 2005-01-07
Callandor's flaw is double: firstly, it lacks the buffer that make sa'agreal safe to useby preventing the chaneler from drawing too much of the power. So burning yourself out using Callandor is a very real possibility.
Secondly, it magnified the effect of the taint on the channeler, inducing wildness of the mind.
Given that Saidin has been cleaned, the second effect should not occur anymore though.
12
Callandor: 2005-01-07
Callandor lacks a buffer. Because of this, it can only be safely used, by that I mean in a situation not causing wildness of the taint and madness (like in the Stone of Tear in TSR), in a like with a man and 2 women, with one of the women controlling the flows (like in the Cleansing). With this, everything works fine, except for the taint entering the male of course (but that's not a problem anymore).
13
Jiana: 2005-01-11
** "if i recall correctly, Toveine and Gabrelle are trying to bring Logain and amazingly not liking/trusting him, so why would Logain have any reason to trust them????!!??!?" **
Logain has every reason in the world to trust Gabrelle and Toveine, because of the bond and the... I'll call them instructions, but I think what he did with them is closer to Compulsion, because they are sworn to obey him, among other things. Unless they can find a way to wriggle out of the oaths or the bond (and I don't think they can), then Logain could certainly trust them to link with him.
But what I've seen here is: "She will teach them linking" and "No, she will teach them laughter and tears." Why can't it be both? Both are definitely needed among the Asha'man. They and Rand have to be the most arrogant characters ever dedicated to a page! They all need to remember where they came from, and to learn how to reconcile who they were then with who they are now, so they can begin to show respect and compassion for others again. (Note: I said SHOW compassion, not FEEL it.) Most of them obviously feel compassion, but like Rand, they think they have to be stone. I think Cadsuane and Sorilea will find a way to remind Rand and the Asha'man that they are human (the laughter and tears) and by so doing will endow them with the trust and respect needed to form a link.
14
Callandor: 2005-01-12
**I'll call them instructions, but I think what he did with them is closer to Compulsion, because they are sworn to obey him, among other things. Unless they can find a way to wriggle out of the oaths or the bond (and I don't think they can), then Logain could certainly trust them to link with him.**
It's not. Compulsion leaves a person without any will whatsoever; they do ~whatever~ the person Compelling them says without any thought of anything else, and they feel the desire to do it then and now, and the joy and love in doing it.
What the Asha'man bond is more like, is a flexible Oath Rod. The Asha'man bonds an Aes Sedai, and gives the simple commands for what they can and cannot do. Logains were:
**Don't try to escape, don't attack anyone in a black coat, and don't touch the Source unless I give you permission.**
The Aes Sedai can dream all they want, day in day out, about escaping; they can create the most detailed plans, and get right to the edge of doing it; however they cannot break one of the commands. Exactly like the Three Oaths; they cannot be broken unless removed. There may be ways around them, but outright breaking them cannot happen.
15
Aiel Finn: 2005-01-14
The only thing that is missing is the don't allow a black coat to come to harm, (gotta love Asimov), I could just see one of the AS dropping something on a AM because they are not intending to kill him.
16
Fox Eyes: 2005-02-01
I like this theory, though im not sure it is entirely likely that Logain would ever accept aide from cadsuane on any terms. As others have already stated, Cadsuane helped capture/gentle Logain, and is currently in the "service" of another male channeler. I have always interpreted Logain's glory to be involved with some sort of rebellion within the Ashaman, headed by Taim. Nice idea though.
17
Davian93: 2005-10-20
Warning: Knife of Dreams Spoiler
**** I like this theory, though im not sure it is entirely likely that Logain would ever accept aide from cadsuane on any terms. As others have already stated, Cadsuane helped capture/gentle Logain, and is currently in the "service" of another male channeler****
Based on KoD, now that Logain can channel again at full strength and Caddy is serving/advising Rand, I dont think Logain would have a problem working with her. She only captured him because of the Taint, with the taint gone there is no reason for her to ever do anything to him. Logain also seems like a bigger man than that, far more concerned with helping out his side than in petty grudges.
18
jagiyer: 2006-05-11
I don't think Logain is the one who will wield Callandor at TG. The Prophecies of the Dragon clearly say "he that draws it out will follow after." Callandor was drawn out of the Heart of the Stone by Jahar Narishma. He wielded it near Shadar Logoth when Rand was cleansing the Power of the taint. He is bonded to Merise, and they can link with one other Aes Sedai to complete a circle of three needed to use Callandor safely. It appears that Rand has given over the use of Callandor to Jahar. So why all of a sudden, should Logain be given it? I think Jahar Narishma will use Callandor at TG to complete some major act which Rand commences but dies while doing; thus fulfilling the prophecy I mentioned above.
Also, **Logain is an obvious person to use Callandor because he can be trusted, he is strong with the OP...**
I don't see why strength in the OP is an issue while using Callandor. Being the third most powerful sa'angreal ever made, the wielder's own strength will pale in comparison, no matter how strong he is. Jahar Narishma is plenty strong enough, anyway.
19
Callandor: 2006-05-12
**I don't see why strength in the OP is an issue while using Callandor. Being the third most powerful sa'angreal ever made, the wielder's own strength will pale in comparison, no matter how strong he is. Jahar Narishma is plenty strong enough, anyway.**
They were arguing that since Logain is stronger than Jahar, Logain would be able to channel more saidin with Callandor that Jahar could with Callandor. It is true that Logain would be able to draw more, but not all that convincing in light of other aspects.
