oridin Killed Lanfear
by Anubis: 2003-11-22 | Not yet rated
Obviously Lanfear died. We know this. But the question is who done it. It was either done by a dark char... eg forsaken, shaidar haran gholam etc, a light character eg rand, matt, elayne, random do gooder aes sedai, or a neutral character, fain or the finns.
Whoever killed Lanfear managed to do it quietly. There was no huge explosion, or cataclysmic battle. This pretty much rules out any light character, all of the forsaken except ishmael (true power) and thats it.
So were left with Ishmael, the finns, fain, a gholam, and shaidar haran. Fain didnt do it... thats just dumb. While im sure he would have enjoyed it, fain forsaken conflict is just not in the cards yet. The finns didnt do it, lanfear states that they held her, but not that they killed her. Held implies that at some point she ceased being held, and while death i suppose is techincally a release, i dont think thats where she was going with that.
So that leaves gholam, ishmael, and shaidar haran. Either way she was killed by the dark, and this means she was punished for somthing. The gholam to me seems pretty unlikely, just because thats kinda.... lame. The reason i go with ishmael is because ishy and lanfear have a history together.
Lanfear books 1-5 "i serve the great lord and no other"
Lanfear book 6 on : "yes master"
all the sudden she fears him. this doesnt just happen for no reason. she is an arrogant bitch. And besides "last chance", thats just rubbing her nose in it.
ill be the first to admit. not alot of direct evidence. tho one must consider that the lack of direct evidence is evidence in itself.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-11-26
I have a problem with the assumption that Lanfear was killed; why is it obvious? She has a new body, but did both Isam and Luc die before they were placed in the body they possess? The finns are powerful and I don't think it is beyond their powers to have granted Lanfear or given Lanfear a new body. Another reason I don't believe that death was necessarily involved concerns her lack of One Power strange. Ignoring the possibility that in her previous life she might have been unnaturally enhanced, therefore giving her more strength then she actually had, her inability to channel as powerfully as before would seem to come from her encounter with the Finns. If she had died, then her soul would have been placed into a new body, and she should have been channeling at the same rate as before. But, if the Finns put her in a new body, clamped down on her channeling ability, and dropped her off at Shayol Ghul's gate, she would be in the same situation she is in now. The problem I have with Ishamael stems from how he would know where to find Lanfear, and why he would kill her instead of just mind trapping her in her previous incarnation. Obviously she was trapped, therefore she couldn't have fought him, so his killing her doesn't seem to make any sense. Just some thoughts from your humble host.
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Tamyrlin: 2003-11-26
I made a mistake and created this new category, that I already had one for...oh well, I will see what I can do about moving these theory, but to the correct category. Thanks.
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Callandor: 2003-11-26
What happened to the Light followers? Or the rest of the Forsaken?
And as Tam said, where is it obvious that she died? It is very possible, but so is the fact that it is still her and she has just lost her "enhancement".
And she returns in book 8, not book 6.
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Great Lord of the Dark: 2003-11-27
I'm often torn on this issue, but I do believe it was Moridin who got Lanfear free of the Finns, either by having her killed while she was being held, or by brokering an agreement with them for her release. You have to wonder how the Finns would be able to hold her if all it takes is music or fire to keep them at bay, which Lanfear surely has at her One Power disposal. So I believe she was stilled/shielded, as was Moiraine. Since a stilled Lanfear is of little use, she was killed and brought back in a new body. One could imagine the stilling having something to do with her being reborn less powerful, but there isn't much proof, just a feeling. And Moridin did have to locate her and punish her for her part in setting Asmodean up as Rand's teacher.
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a dragonburned fool: 2003-11-30
From the dark side possibilities I don't see in your theory Slayer. Slayer is the one am most connected with Finnland, and most possibly he will be the one to perform a mission there.
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Anubis: 2003-12-01
sorry callandor, theorys posted at 4 am etc etc...
i dont think any of the other forsaken could have taken lanfear 1 on 1.... certianly they would have been too cowardly to try. and with any other light character the same thing applies, they either couldnt take her, or it would have happend offscreen. and slayer??? sorry, slayer vs any forsaken level channeler is a short fight.
7
Callandor: 2003-12-01
**i dont think any of the other forsaken could have taken lanfear 1 on 1.... certianly they would have been too cowardly to try.**
Uhh... no.
TITLE: Fires of Heaven, CHAPTER: Prologue - The First Sparks Fall
"Is he really so strong?" Rahvin asked quietly. "This Rand al'Thor. Could he have overwhelmed you, face-to-face?" Not that he himself could not, if it came to it, or Sammael, though Graendal would likely link with Lanfear if either of the men tried. For that matter, both women were probably filled to bursting with the Power right that moment, ready to strike at the slightest suspicion of either man. Or of each other. But this farmboy. An untrained shepherd! Untrained unless Asmodean was trying.**
Forsaken arrogance or not, dumb person or not, pure ignorance or not; the Forsaken will take on Lanfear if they want to.
And I also don't think it would require a strong channeler to kill her in her condition: she was most likely stilled or burned out having her angreal ripped away from her by Moiraine (sorry GLotD, Moiraine would be fine, just trapped). So, the avaible killers can go up, it is just a matter of entering Finnland.
And again, there still is the possiblity that she never even died.
8
Caramoor: 2003-12-04
Maybe the new body was the result of an agreement she made with the Finns?
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Anubis: 2003-12-04
your quote illustrates that the forsaken are paranoid and uneasy... but not that they are willing to directly kill eachother. sure there suspiscious of eachother and refuse to display weakness.. but thats just the way they are
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Callandor: 2003-12-04
What does Overwhelm mean? Destroy? Kill? Get rid off? In the context it does, and Rahvin thinks he and Sammael could BOTH overwhelm Lanfear ON THEIR OWN.
So, no, the quote proves that Forsaken will kill each other if needed or wanted.
11
Anubis: 2003-12-05
then why didnt they? less competition for nae blis and all. The reason being that striking directly at another forsaken would weaken you, alienate you, and create a commotion. Lets say sammael randomly kills mesaana.... mostly because those are the two i can spell. Sure sammael wins, but sammael is temporarily weak from the fight, the DO might be pissed.... and more importantly now he is a high priority threat to all the other forsaken. We have seen in recent history how easy it is to unite against a common enemy.
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Callandor: 2003-12-06
**then why didnt they? less competition for nae blis and all.**
Read the quote. It says: "Not that he himself could not, if it came to it, or Sammael, though Graendal would likely link with Lanfear if either of the men tried."
Rahvin KNOWS that Lanfear and Graendal would link and likely kill HIM or Sammael if they tried to attack them.
**Sure sammael wins, but sammael is temporarily weak from the fight, the DO might be pissed.... and more importantly now he is a high priority threat to all the other forsaken**
Why would the DO be pissed? He wants that strongest Forsaken to be the Nae'blis.
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Anubis: 2003-12-07
exactly. the reason the forsken dont kill eachother is because the others would temporarily unite and take out the forsaken that killed the other. If schermage (sp) finds out that lets say... sammael killed lanfear, then sammael is deffinatly going to be on sehmerages hit list and also whoever else she can bring along, and she would bring others along.
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Caldazar: 2003-12-08
I do think that the DO would be angry if the Forsaken began killing each other. I agree that he wishes the strongest to be Nae'blis, but he does not want it to be proven that way. He wishes for them to compete with one another, not kill each other. In no way would it advance the interests of the Dark to have the forsaken killing each other without a justified reason.
In the case of Lanfear, she did have an enormous ambition for power. It is possible that she angered the DO enough for him to tell Moridin to kill her, but I don't believe that happened.
15
minalth: 2004-08-17
might not be the right place to say it, but a very easy way to artificially enhance your channeling ability without carrying around an angreal with you is to cut yourself open and put an angreal inside then heal yourself (get someone else to heal you)
too obvious to be thaught of by the average reader of these forums, but RJ isnt past hiding something in plain view for all he likes having intricate plots
