ill the Companions
by Elder Haman: 2004-03-31 | 1 out of 10 (4 votes)
"Siuan strode back and forth across the room, kicking her skirt and rubbing her chin, muttering about "men with luck" and "the blacksmith rose suddenly" and other things Moiraine could not make out. Suddenly she stopped dead and said, "She never went near Rahien, Moiraine. The Black Ajah knows the Dragon was Reborn, but they don't bloody know when! Maybe Tamra managed to keep it back, or maybe they were too rough and she died before they could pry it out of her. That has to be it!" Her eagerness turned to horror. "Light! They're killing any man or boy who might be able to channel! Oh, burn me, thousands could die, Moiraine. Tens of thousands."
(thanks to Callandor for finding the quote)
Suian is wrong, the Black Ajah are not trying to kill the Dragon Reborn or men who can channel, they are trying to kill the Companions of the Dragon, (Mat and Perrin), who they know about from Dark Prophecies.
This theory was first posted by Susannah'aiel after New Spring the Short Story came out, but since repies to it can not be made, and since I arrived at the same conclusion independantly I felt it ought to be reposted since New Spring the Novel has added to the evidence for it.
Further evidence is found in EotW where Ishamael seems to know that all three of the boys are important, but doesn't seem to know which one is the dragon reborn.
Again in the Dragon Reborn, Lanfear aproaches both Perrin and Mat in addition to her primary focus on Rand. I feel this suggests the Shadow has access to information on the importance of the Companions that neither Moiraine or Suian had.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2004-05-22
Well, I would say they are interested in killing all three of them. I am sure dark prophecy exists, and it very well could discuss the three boys. Siuan was partially correct; she didn't know about the other two, which it would seem they do. However...I thought there was an explanation in the books as to why they were searching for the blacksmith and the lucky boy...anyway.
2
Zaela Sedai: 2004-05-22
I believe that they were looking for anyone who could possibly be ta'veren. Considering that the DR would be, that's why they were looking for lucky men. The BA however had no idea how old the boy would be and therefore were striking at all age groups. Suian and Moiraine on the other hand knew what age the boy needed to be because of the fortelling. As Tam said there are dark prophecies as well to help the Shadow in their search.
3
waterbucket: 2004-05-22
The Shadow wants to kill any one of the three.
"Kill one leg of the tripod and all three fall down"
This quote was from a Myrddraal to Perrin, so the shadow knows who the three of them are, or at least found out by then. Also, all three are critical to the LB so killing one would pretty much be destroying the prophecies.
4
Callandor: 2004-05-23
This is really a pointless theory. RJ set up New Spring to ask a question, give some background for us old time readers, and to basically make it an intro story, for those who don't take advice and start with The Eye of the World.
There is no point to saying flat out that the Black Ajah is trying to kill the Dragon Reborn, a hypothesis which fits all the criteria, as well as meeting the main story line of the main books.
The Companions?
Ah, so we are to go off of a supposed amount of Dark Prophacies, which give information pertaining to future events which give enough specifics 20 years ago, to set people hunting a blacksmith and a gambler.
Please.
We know that ALL prophacies are vague, and only truely understood after the event has already occured.
The entire scope of the Prophacies of the Dragon, to the reader, gives no information, no references, whatsoever to more then one person; they are all refering to the Dragon. Keep in mind, this is to the reader of the Prophacies.
We know that they do pertain to one of the three, Mat, and most likely to the other as well.
The reason Ishamael knew the three boys were important is quite simple: Padan Fain. Fain's entire mission was to sniff out them. He narrowed it down to three, over a course of three years: Rand, Mat, and Perrin.
5
charliec: 2004-05-23
Mmm, I really like this idea... hadn't done much thinking about New Spring before, and that may have to change!
I like the idea that they were aiming to break the tripod... deal with Mat and Perrin, and Rand has no chance at TG, and might even fall to the shadow before then. Without Mat he might not have made it to Rhuidean by Portal Stone, or survived the dust creatures to escape Rhuidean... without Perrin he'd have fallen into Mesaana's hands in the tower... and no doubt there's plenty more occasions where his companion ta'veren are needed to keep fate on track.
6
Dorindha: 2004-05-23
This theory has been around a while, but as Zaela says, I tend more towards the fact they were looking for people who are ta'veran, by evidence of their luck. Callandor is right to point out that the narrowing down by Padan Fain to the three of them was important, but we are unlikely to ever find out about any dark prophecy. The "cut one leg of the tripod" quote occurs long after the three are positively identified and much more is known about them.
7
mako0424: 2004-08-05
when something happens twice it is coincedence, when something happens three times, there is a pattern.
Not only does the Black Ajah admit to looking for people who are lucky, but also a blacksmith was killed, and they were looking for channelers.
i think it simply to ostentatious of RJ to make it a blacksmith who rises to something important and is killed.
How do we know that the Dark Forces even know that three taveren are important. No body does, no body even knew that the Dragon would be a taverne this time. Moiraiune didnt know. I think there is a dark prphecy which states that there will be three people crucial to the light side and winning tarmon gaidon.
8
Callandor: 2004-08-06
**How do we know that the Dark Forces even know that three taveren are important.**
Ba'alzamon told them in the Darkfriend Social. Heck, even a Fade knows about it when he talks to Perrin during the attack at the Stone in TSR.
Thing is, everyone here is looking at this with knowledge we have ~now.~ Not with the knowledge people had 20 years ago when the events took place. No one knew there would be three ta'veren. Everyone is voting for some made up Dark Prophacy that gave the secret clue to the Dark knowing and then going to search for male channelers.
Everybody misses the big dumb thing.
One of the signs of a male channelers is increased luck.
A blacksmith rose to promenance, and was killed. ~Gasp hiss~ It must have been a Dark plot. The man matches Perrin to a T!
A man was lucky. Must be Mat!
A male channeler.... ~Gasp~ RAND! I see! I see! A pattern.
No crap. All of them show signs of the possiblity of being male channelers. Now, think deep about it, what was Siuan's great big revelation at the end of New Spring, the culmentating idea, the end of the entire story arc, and the explanation? The Black Ajah are hunting male channelers, or anyone with the possibility of being a male channeler.
Why? They know the Dragon has been reborn, due to the torturing of Tamra Ospenya, the Amyrlin with the knowledge of his coming. Information was either corrupted, or she held back that he would be a child, not a man.
Everybody is thinking wayyyy too deeply on this when it is laid out right in front of you.
9
JollyW89: 2005-06-26
Ever since i read EOTW i have suspected that the DO has known about the 3 of them. In one chapter all of the boys have a dream. In that dream there are 3 wax figures. One is of a man and a wolf the other two have resemblances to the two, but seeing as i lent out my 1st book to a friend of mine to read i can't find a quote. Now at this time Perrin could not talk to wolves. So y would the figure have a wolf? Then when (I beleive it was Mat though it could have been Rand or Perrin) Mat picked up his doll Ishmale said so that's which one you are. with that the figure had his face on it. Now why would they have the figures and not have the faces. My theory then was that because they didn't know WHO they were looking for, but they did know WHAT they were looking for. Then in A New Spring when the men were killed it confirmed my theory. And i think that this supports ur theory.
10
Callandor: 2005-06-27
You're looking at it again with knowledge of the books in the present, not the knowledge of the past.
Fain had been tracking and searching for the Dragon Reborn for 3 years. He narrowed it down to Rand, Mat, and Perrin.
What the Shadow did not know, was who truely was the Dragon Reborn. Ishamael eventually figured it out -- but he was testing them in the mean time.
Where is this knowledge coming from? Fain. Plain and simple. Not the Prophecies or a Dark Prophecy that the Shadow had suddenly bright and brilliant insight when they have been short on both forever.
They weren't expecting three ta'veren the same way Moiraine wasn't.
