1
Tamyrlin: 2004-01-24
Well, I disagree with your assessment that Rand and his armies are moving toward any alliance with the Seanchan. The Seanchan will never accept the idea of Aes Sedai running loose, and add on top of that Male channelers too. Even after the Last Battle, the world will be full of battle, we are told, suggesting that the Seanchan will still be attacking from the south and west. Tuon and possibly a portion of the Seanchan could be bound to Rand's side, but not the Seanchan in general. Also, we know that one forsaken is with the Seanchan, Semirhage. As to the other armies, we know that Sammael sent the Shaido all over the place to increase chaos, and we have to wonder why all of the Border armies would come south and leave the border empty (Forsaken involvement somewhere.) Obviously, the Forsaken are involved with the Black Tower and the White Tower, along with Egwene's army of Aes Sedai (Halima). So, in fact, I think the Forsaken are still using the armies to create chaos, but you might have a point, that can't be their endgame. What is Moridin planning?
2
Mairashda: 2004-01-24
why is the blight so awfully quiet, why are there hardly any trolloc raids in the borderlands? there probably is some huge force of trollocs being prepared... something that might even dwarf the trolloc wars come again. the prologue of CoT hints at a forsaken (demandred?) being with the remaining whitecloaks, graendal does have some control over military operations in arad doman, semirhage is still with the seanchan, controlling suroth who controls the corenne...
3
Him-who-may: 2004-01-24
I think that your idea that the locations of the forsaken are in existing forces but rather than in high ranking positions I think that they are all getting close to the major characters.
Asmodean and Moggy we all know were forced in submition but other characters (and in alot of cases normal darkfriends) get close to the lead characters and then screw them over ie. "Halima" and the mysterious headaches I believe is likely to be connected to Egwenes capture.
If the main characters all disapear mysteriously then Chaos wiil ensue- look at what happened when Rand was captured by the Tower emisseries.
Another posibility for this could include Matt's newly gathered gang containing a forsaken (most people agree with this, you know who i mean ;).
Also from a narritive point of view this would centre the books more on the characters again like when the series began and this would wind down the saga. Wheels and repeating of key idea is the theme after all.
4
dragonsceptor: 2004-01-25
Another posibility for this could include Matt's newly gathered gang containing a forsaken (most people agree with this, you know who i mean ;).
Maybe I'm behind the times but I don' t know who you are talking about. I can only assume a forsake in Mat's company would have to be Noal or one the AS/suldame. I don't see how this is likely.
First let's look at the possibility of the AS/suldame. Lanfear was dead (or held by the finns but the impact is the same) and when she is brought back appears to be attached at the hip to Moridin. Moggy was trapped with the girls in salidar and then punished and mindtrapped and is since Moridin's lackey. Graendal is playing with power in Arad Doman. Semirage is Anath (I believe that has been established) who did not come with Mat's group. The only possible forsaken left that could be one of the AS or suldame is Mesanna. However, we have always known she was with the tower. While that might not rule out the AS, do you really think a forsake would let themselves be collared with an adam? We also see Mesanna in COT and the clothing described does not match any of the AS in Mat's party.
The only other possbility I can think of for a forsaken in Mat's party is Noal. While I think it possible, maybe even likely Noal is a DF, I do not believe he is a forsaken. The other members of Mat's party have been with him for a long time.
Thom and Julien are not forsaken. The remaining members of the band could be but it does not fit their MO of getting close to power. Besides, as far as we know, none of them can channel.
The last three people in Mat's party are Tuon, her maid (I can't remember her name), and Setalle Anan. Setalle Anan cannot channel and can therefore be ruled out. Nothing from tuon's perspective has indicated she is a forsaken. Her maid has shown that she is completely dedicated to Tuon. Besides, with Anath being forsaken, it does not make sense for another forsaken to be in that close of proximity to her.
Who is left to be forsaken?
5
Rand alThor15: 2004-01-25
to answer the question as to why the Blight is so quiet :
to quote Gandalf from the Return of the King : "It's the deep breath before the dive."
I'm guessing Moridin/Ishamael has a couple tens of thousands of soldiers and channelers in Shara, i mean, we know very little about that part of the world, God knows what's going on in there..
6
Davian93: 2004-01-26
I think there has to be some sort of alliance binding at least a portion of the Seanchan to Rand. The prophecies state that he will "bind the nine moons" Tuon is the Daughter of the Nine Moons, which means the Empress herself is the Nine moons barring her unexpected death. So binding Tuon, through Mat, to Rand doesnt really fulfill the prophecy. As for the blight, I agree it is the quiet before the storm. Although ironically if they struck south now the trollocs would probably overrun the entire borderlands till they got as far south as Tar Valon. As for Shara, I can only hope that they don't become involved too heavily in the story. That would mean another couple of books outlaying the different types of dresses and scrollwork along the hem that the Shara have.:)
7
Great Lord of the Dark: 2004-01-26
I think the relevant quote is "binding east to north, west to south" or "cutting the land in two with a sword." Rand is not going to ally himself with the Seanchan, he's making a truce. They get what they have now, no more. Rand keeps the rest. Then he can face the Last Battle without watching his back for the Seanchan.
Moridin isn't counting on this, since he originally wanted the Seanchan to come and carve up the continent, and draw attention away from his true attack, likely trolloc invasion.
Of course, all of that is just a feint to get hands on the true prize, the fisher, the Dragon Reborn. Ishy wants him captured, alone, and with no choice to end the war but to surrender the Dark. The danger is that controlling the Fisher is dangerous, in the end Rand may refuse leaving the Chosen in apickle.
8
IkilledAsmodean: 2004-01-27
Ahh, but here's the thign wiht the Seanchen. They have to be expecting Rand to ally wiht them, based on their prophecies. Add the tangle of Mat to Tuon, and it seems very likely they will become more than just on a truce.
Also, as for the presence of the Forsaken, there are a few that we are not aware of, at least by location.
As for Satelle, we know that there is a way to hide the ability to channel.
9
Davian93: 2004-01-27
Even a truce in this case would be just as good as an alliance. Consider the "alliance" between Britain/U.S and the Soviets during WWII. Essentially all that was a truce. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. This pertains to a truce between Seanchan and Rand. The Seanchan will defend themselves against the DO just as fast as Rand. Remember they killed all the Trollocs/Myrrdraal on their continent centuries ago. An "alliance" where Rand splits the continent between himself and the Seanchan would still fit that prophecy as well as "binding the Nine Moons."
10
Callandor: 2004-01-30
Btw, the entire Trolloc and Shadowspawn army in TEOTW that marched on Tarwin's Gap, was Ishamaels.
11
Illuminati: 2004-02-04
"As for Satelle, we know that there is a way to hide the ability to channel."
Yes, but didn't she try the bracelet? Wouldn't the bracelet still work even tho she was hiding her channeling from other channelers?
Besides, Satelle should fit very well with "the one who is no longer", and I really don't think that would be a forsaken.
I'm curious as well to whom the forsaken would be in Mats gang. The only posability I see is that Mogheiden was forced to be taken captive again by seanchan (this time) and is one of the AS resqued and the other would be a DF. But that's a far stretch.
Darnit, I saw that group as forsaken-free... :)
12
dragonsceptor: 2004-02-04
I still haven't seen a compelling reason to believe that there is a forsaken in Mat's group. No one seems like a prime candidate and I can't see anything pointing to this. It seems that people are taking this a fact. Why? Someone please tell me why you think there is a forsaken in Mat's group and who you think it is.
13
Davian93: 2004-02-05
The reason everyone thinks there is a forsaken in Mat's group is because it makes sense for one of them to embed themselves with Mat. Is is one of the three legs of the tripod that is essential for Rand to win. Also being a major Ta'veren on the side of the Light it would make sense for the Shadow to want to keep track of him. I personally doubt that there is a member of the forsaken with Mat. A darkfriend, on the other hand, is highly likely. Odds are someone in his group is a DF. Be interesting to find out who. Maybe Noal is, by chasing off the gholam he was able to win Mats trust and join the group. Its kinda convienent how that happened.
14
IkilledAsmodean: 2004-02-05
I honestly doubt that there is a Forsaken in Mat's group. I do wonder about Setelle, though. Who is she and what is her part yet to play?
However Mat is currently southeast of perrin, somehwere, if I'm not mistaken. So it's possible that the large pack of Darkhounds could eb ehaded for him, which owuld be trouble enough in itself. But that would mean there would have to be a Darkfriend in his group at least, I think.
In my opinion, Mat's group isn't even being thought of much,save for his presence. I think the Forskaen are not counting on him haivng someone who can end some of the chaos just by her presence, should they go to Rand. Which would lead me to beleive that the Forsaken are among Rand, Elayne, Rebel Tower, and White Tower groups, as these seem to be the major. We know of the Rebel and White Tower Forsaken. What about the others? And where are the remainder of the Forsaken?
15
Anubis: 2004-02-05
the forsaken in matts group would be anath. tho she isnt exactly in matts group. one thing i find interesting is that mat has promised to not kill any women no matter the cost as he approaches the female forsaken who likes torturing people... and he has a medallion.
16
Aelfinn: 2004-02-06
The Forsaken don't need to keep an eye on Mat; the Dark One or Ishy/Moridin is looking THROUGH Mat's eyes, because he drank from Ba'alzamon's cup in TEOTW....
17
Dragonsworn: 2004-02-06
Do you think that Suroth knows what that bracelet she has is, and do you think she gave it to a Forsaken?
18
dragonsceptor: 2004-02-07
She knows what it is. That is why Eaginin(sorry about the spelling) was promoted to the blood. She told Suroth what it was and that it was a gift. It also helps that she's got Anath with her.
