lmurat Moridin
by rangkor: 2005-04-04 | 3.36 out of 10 (11 votes)
In CoT "the tale of a doll" and Winter's Heart "Questions of treason." I think the seeker who questions Furyk Kadere and Bethamin is in fact Moridin. I normally don't write theories, but today I came looking for one on this subject, and was very surprised when I didn't find one. If someone else posted something similar and I missed it then I may have just wasted time but oh well.
First the seeker Matches physical descriptions of Moridin. Pale hair and blue eyes. We Know that Moridin has vey blonde hair, blue eyes and appears to be a young man. In " he tale of a doll" we get no indication of age but the eyes and hair match.
The Seeker identifies himself as Almurat Mor, we have seen Ishamael in more than one instance using variations of that. I.e. Moridin, Elan Morin.
Kadere interprets Mor as meaning that the seeker had an ancestor that went over the ocean with Hawkwings armies, which could fit in with theories regarding Ishamael influencing Hawkwing and the emmigration to Seanchan.
While talking with Kadere, Kadere wishes he could get a better look at Mor's face. Potentially Mor does not want Kadere to see the Saa in his eyes.
In this scene, Kadere has Mor pour wine for both of them. There was one proper cup which Mor used himself, and then was forced to pour Kadere's wine into a bowl made of a Skull owned by Kadere's servant, Ajimbura. This bowl is described as the top of a skull and having an ornately decorated ram's horn at the base. When Mor sees this Kadere notes that that Mor "recognised it for what it really was." I think this cup is a trolloc skull, and this was a little Irony by Jordan, in that Kadere thinks the cup is a man's skull with a ram's horn base, but Moridin recognises it for what it really was, a trolloc skull. (maybe not)
Another piece of circumstantial evidence that the seeker is Moridin, is found in this chapter's dialogue.
Mor starts by attempting to lead the conversation, Karede puts Mor off balance with his counter questions and the skull cup, bringing Mor to the point of the discussion more quickly than he wished. Following this, Mor tells him that "it is a pleasure to speak with one who sees so deeply."
I think that this fits with Moridin's personality and love of the game with the Fischer.
Moridin rarely converses with someone who has a quick insightful brain on par with his own. Karede is the kind of person with whom Moridin can relate on his intellectual level, and hence his compliment to Karede.
Whether or not Moridin is Mor, I think Mor is the Seeker that corners Bethamin in Winter's Heart and makes her reaquint with Egeanin.
based on his description this seeker fits with both Moridin and Mor. And both Seeker's seem to be following Egeanin's trail.
In this case the seeker is described as "A pretty yellow haired man. Not a boy, but not very old either."
The hair and age match with Moridin, but the eye color is not given.
Although the color of the seeker's eyes is not given, when Bethamin looks at them the following description is given: "His face could have belonged to any man, but those eyes....She was glad to be seated." If this was Moridin then Bethamin potentially could have noticed the Saa or something that marked Moridin as unatural in them. Alternatively she could have just been seeing hardness in the Seeker that is not present in just any man.
I could only speculate at what Moridin is playing at if he were in fact spending time posing as a seeker. When talking with Bethamin the seeker seems primarily concerned with Egeanin, and it is believable that he is investigating what he sees as legitimate treason to the crystal throne. If the seeker is Moridin then perhaps he wishes to follow Egeanin back to characters that are closely associated with Rand with whom she has been associating.
When talking with Karede, Mor tells him of Egeanin and Thom Merrilin, while briefly mentioning Mat without naming him. Mor tells Karede that he thinks Merrilin is the best secret agent of the white tower. If Mor is Moridin Why he would be telling that to Karede is a mystery. Perhaps there is a lot more to Merrilin than we have seen and Moridin knows it, or perhaps the whole scenario was just a way of manouvering the deathwatch gaurd out of Ebou Dar to facilliate moridin's plans whatever they are.
Moridin obviously has the ability to travel where he wishes, but it is likely that he was in Ebou Dar the day the Seanchan arrived, watching the girls and the kin travel from Ebou Dar to the Farm.
This is obviously not conclusive evidence, but I will be very surprised if Almurat Mor is not Moridin.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2005-04-10
I haven't seen this theory before, and it wouldn't surprise me if Ishamael was out impersonating people, especially dealing with the Seanchan, because of his intimate involvement with them. However, I picked up this quote, "Mor relaxed by increments as he realized that Karede did not intend to kill him, at least not right then, but there was a haze of sweat on his forehead. "I have heard it said a Deathwatch Guard can see a butterfly's breath. Do you have anything to drink?." The way Jordan writes Mor's feelings, inner emotions, saying he wasn't as tense when he realized he wouldn't be killed; I am not sure how that can work with Ishamael. I am not convinced from what I have read; I would have to understand why Ishamael would involve himself, because undoubtedly there are darkfriend Seekers...of course, he never let him get a good look at his face, from what I can tell, so I understand the curiousity.
2
: 2005-04-10
ah... thank you, I am not the only one who had noticed that. I think it is to bit of a coincidence, because also, did we ever hear where moridin established his hold, we all know the forsaken found high places.
also, I posted 2 theories a couple days ago, and none of them have been added yet, any reason for that.
3
Callandor: 2005-04-11
**First the seeker Matches physical descriptions of Moridin. Pale hair and blue eyes. We Know that Moridin has vey blonde hair, blue eyes and appears to be a young man. In " he tale of a doll" we get no indication of age but the eyes and hair match.**
Moridin has black hair and blue eyes.
**TITLE: Crown of Swords, CHAPTER: 41 - A Crown of Swords
"His head and shoulders came above the floor, and he could see the other man, a big fellow little older than he, ~with hair black as the night and a coat black as an Asha'man's.~ Rand had never seen him before. At least he was not one of the Forsaken; those faces he knew. He thought he did, anyway. "Who are you?" he demanded.**
This is a description of the Wanderer, and if you do not agree that the Wanderer is in fact
**The Seeker identifies himself as Almurat Mor, we have seen Ishamael in more than one instance using variations of that. I.e. Moridin, Elan Morin.**
It's also in MORgase, MORdaine, MORdeth, MORdrellen, MORelin (an alias of Elayne no doubt ;)), MORessin, MORia Karentanis, MORin, Fedwin MORr, MORsa, and MORvrin. All counted, there are 2 Aes Sedai, 2 Aiel, 1 queen of Andor, 1 Asha'man, 1 alias of Elayne, 1 Seanchan noble, 1 of the most feared and currently powerful spirits in the world, and a partrage in a pear tree ;) Name having mor in it is hardly indicitive of anything.
**While talking with Kadere, Kadere wishes he could get a better look at Mor's face. Potentially Mor does not want Kadere to see the Saa in his eyes.**
But Karede has already seen his eyes ;)
**Whether or not Moridin is Mor, I think Mor is the Seeker that corners Bethamin in Winter's Heart and makes her reaquint with Egeanin.**
No doubt he is. He also talked to Egeanin in TSR, and had been following her, Thom, Julian, Nynaeve, and Elayne throughout Tanchico in TSR.
**When talking with Karede, Mor tells him of Egeanin and Thom Merrilin, while briefly mentioning Mat without naming him. Mor tells Karede that he thinks Merrilin is the best secret agent of the white tower. If Mor is Moridin Why he would be telling that to Karede is a mystery. Perhaps there is a lot more to Merrilin than we have seen and Moridin knows it, or perhaps the whole scenario was just a way of manouvering the deathwatch gaurd out of Ebou Dar to facilliate moridin's plans whatever they are.**
Or he is a Seeker going off the information he has so far, and coming to a close, but incorrect, conclusion? ;)
And it was Moridin in Ebou Dar; that's a fact not a possiblity :)
4
jason wolfbrother: 2005-04-11
One problem. We met this same Seeker before in TSR. He interviewed Egeanin in Tanchico. He has been following her since then. Moridin didn't make a screen appearance until CoS. Sorry but that is one big hole for you to explain.
5
Asmodean: 2005-04-11
Mor is the seeker that Thom knocked out in TSR chapter 52...Ishy was dead at the time..most likely...and also wouldn't be knocked out by Thom...figured I would put that out there..put this one to rest
6
mazrimashaman: 2005-04-11
hey, why didnt it post my name on my reply.
~Note From Tamyrlin: Regarding the missing name...browser, cookie, timeout, database issue...~
7
rangkor: 2005-04-11
I considered this quote too.
"Mor relaxed by increments as he realized that Karede did not intend to kill him, at least not right then, but there was a haze of sweat on his forehead. "I have heard it said a Deathwatch Guard can see a butterfly's breath. Do you have anything to drink?."
But I think that it is possible that Karede misinterpreted the reason for Mor relaxing. If Moridin he may be anxious that Karede would try to kill him,and was in turn ready to respond with the power and relaxed when this was uneccessary. Perhaps Moridin wanted to manipulate Karede and did not want to kill him.
8
Kjasic: 2005-04-11
I still think Mordin is another face to Slayer/Luc. who i also believe is Lan's half brother.
9
clarkkd: 2005-04-11
This could be the same seeker that Matt had diced with?
10
Callandor: 2005-04-12
**I still think Mordin is another face to Slayer/Luc. who i also believe is Lan's half brother.**
Slayer's minds (both Luc and Isam) are totally seperate from Moridin's. We've had their POVs before, and they do not match up at all.
Isam is related to Lan, but he is Lan's cousin, not brother. Luc is related to Rand as well -- he is Rand's uncle.