Tamyrlin: 2006-01-04

(Frenzy for Tamyrlin) i think you may be overlooking a vital question: WHY does Moiraine write the letter? Is it purely self-preservation, just to escape imprisonment? (assuming she's alive, of course, and held in a physical state) Moiraine was so goal-driven to make sure Rand succeeds in the Last Battle, so why would she write something that, in effect, distracts or removes one of the 3 ta'veren needed to fight the Last Battle? That doesn't make sense. The tone of the letter is all wrong, imho. It doesn't sound like Moiraine. She never struck me as a love letter type. So perhaps the "mushy stuff" IS the cipher. and it's mushy enough to distrack Thom from the truth. (knew he was an old softie...) Have you compared Thom's letter from Moiraine to Rand's letter? Perhaps there are clues there when both are examined concurrently.

haertchen: 2006-01-04

This ought to be an interesting wild-goose chase. Moiraine had something much better than a cipher: she had the pattern on her side. Without the pattern and its timing, the letter would be opaque; with just the right information and sources coming together at the right time, it was completely coherent. No need for special codes or hidden messages.

As for the mushy stuff: She's seen the future. In a sense, she's had plenty of time to fall in love with the man who's going to rescue her. Thom has clearly become somewhat attached; see his determination to rescue her no matter what. Speculation about Moiraine and Thom getting married existed well before Knife of Dreams, and the letter is more confirmation of that line of speculation than anything unusual.

Hammar: 2006-01-04

thorough "theory," but:

no where do u mention how moiraine receives the knowledge of the future, alla the red twisted doorframe...

the answers she receives from there are the major reason she wrote the letter in the first place

Flinnd: 2006-01-04

Madoc Comadrin--

Between the evidence you've shown and the thoughts Frenzy adds, I think we have the makings of a genuine Randland conspiracy. I definitely won't be one to write a computer program to work out any hidden message, but you've got my mind turning.

Building from what Frenzy mentioned, I think the message would have to pertain in some way to Rand's success at the Last Battle. Moraine is too focused on victory at the LB, and consequently too willing to sacrifice herself, to put her rescue above Rand's success. That doesn't discount the message pertaining hints or tips on her rescue, though, as Min has implied her importance to Rand and to a victory in the LB.

While this response isn't much to add to an already well laid foundation, I have to mention that if a coded message does exist, RJ has every intent of making it POSSIBLE (while in no way easy) to decode it.

I anyone needs me I'll be in the secret room behind my bookshelf examining this post under different lights while spraying my computer with lemon juice to bring out the invisible ink.

Love this theory!

Anubis: 2006-01-04

I cant read this, I demand formating... but anyways... (edit: formatting problem fixed. Thanks. --Frenzy)

**If the secret message is in the AOL tongue, then RJ would insure that we readers could not crack it while Thom would be able to.**

Mat read it outloud. Mat speaks the Old (or AOL as you put it) Tongue. Mat also reads the Old Tongue. Mat did not read a secret message.

And besides, if there were a secret message... what would it say? What would the point be? It could either be a secret message to Mat, that she doesnt want Thom to read, or a secret message to Thom that she doesnt want Mat to read. Those really are the only two options. The only thing I could think of is thom i love you baby but dearest thom kinda blows that out of the water.

Why do people assume theres a secret message? Arent secret messages kinda pointless when the only person who can read the letter is the person you adressed it to? Are you forgetting moiraines magical ink warding?

Darkelve: 2006-01-05

“That secret belongs to others.”

Meaning perhaps: "The secret [key] is in the possession of other people" ?

Maybe the secret key for deciphering is in Rand's letter.

stb: 2006-01-05

Just some more fuel for this theory,

In this interview, Link RJ says that he is a fan of Neal Stephenson. I've personally just finished reading "The Baroque Cycle" by Neal Stephenson and it's full of letters that contain coded messages.

Ashaman Samuel: 2006-01-05

I believe the question of why is answered simply. She went through the door ter'angreal in Rhuidean. She saw what would happen up until the docks and then one small thing after. Also it is possible (though not all that likely I'm just sayin') that Moiraine knows about Rand failing "without a woman dead and gone". Not saying its very likely but we have to accept the possiblity that she might believe that that refers to herself. I believe she wrote the letter because it was shown that she needed to do so in door ter'angreal. I can't guess at the particulars I'm saying that if she hadn't gone through, these letters would never have been written.

Paendrag: 2006-01-05

I happen to be a C programmer, and have been tackling this problem. I first got rid of all spaces, commas, and periods. When I start at the first letter M (in My) and proceed every 3 positions, the first six letters are "meetme". Seems like something to go with, but it becomes jibberish afterwards. If I go every 4 positions, the first three letters are "mat". Tenuous, but possibly something. What I'm thinking is that it is not a pure Nth letter cipher. I think it might be a Caesar cipher the old fashioned way. Take the note, write it out along one single length of paper so that the entire note is all on one line. Then, wrap that paper around a cylinder of some diameter. Then usually where they line up is the hidden message. This is a much older cipher, and would have been more commonly used in days without computers, obviously. The only trick to this is the proper spacing of the letters and the correct diameter cylinder to wrap that note around.

Just throwing some ideas to play with. I'll be working on more ways to program a solution. :P

Callandor: 2006-01-05

**WHY does Moiraine write the letter? Is it purely self-preservation, just to escape imprisonment? (assuming she's alive, of course, and held in a physical state) Moiraine was so goal-driven to make sure Rand succeeds in the Last Battle, so why would she write something that, in effect, distracts or removes one of the 3 ta'veren needed to fight the Last Battle?**

Well, the why can simply be because she saw it and knew she had to. The reasoning behind that can be more complex of course.

But it seems a foregone conclusion that Moiraine is the one who is "dead and gone" without whom Rand will fail; if that's so it's not distractive a ta'veren -- it's doing what needs to be done for the end result.

New Forsaken: 2006-01-06

First off Moiraine did not go through the doorway in the Waste she went throught the doorway in Tear. She did go through the three rings in the Waste. This showed her what was going to happen in the future. The doorway in the Waste does not give answers.

I really like the idea of a message but I think that Moiraine's being cryptic was just so that Thom would wait until Matt asked which supplied the right timing for all of the things to fall in place. Things like Oliver having had all of those conversations with Bridgette to get the info on the Tower. Time for Noal to join the group. Oh a side note here the use of the phrase, "and another, a MAN I do not know" makes it pretty clear that it will be Noal and not Oliver or Perrin or Rand as some have speculated. A lot of things had to happen in the time between the docks and Matt's reading of the letter and if Moiraine had been to clear there is no way that this would not have happened sooner. Just my thoughts

Jalwin Moerad: 2006-01-06

Why she wrote the letter? I have a theory. When she convinces Thom to leave Rand and head to Tanchico, she promises him THE NAMES OF THE RED SISTERS WHO GENTLED HIS NEPHEW. That would be the simplest explanation-she knew she might not see him again and had to fulfill her end of the bargain.

haertchen: 2006-01-06

"That secret belongs to others."

She's most likely talking about the three-ring ter'angreal that's part of the wise one testing program. Thus she cannot tell Thom how she knows what she has seen, been the Wise One's keep it secret and she doesn't feel she's up to just blabbing it around.

Evidence: The three-ring ter'angreal shows the user many possible future timelines, with their outcomes. This is exactly the kind of information she includes in her letter.

Thus I would view this sentence as containing no hint whatsoever of a cipher/hint of any sort. It's just the simple truth.

P.S. Could someone please tell me what anyone else could use from her letter, especially given that she knew Thom was going to get it?

Traveller: 2006-01-08

Sure, its likely Moiraine has hidden a message in her letter, but I can't imagine it being as a code of every nth letter or something like that, because it simply doesn't seem likely.

Also, I actually thought that your quotes of "extraneous" language, were really nothing out of the ordinary:

"One or two or all three" is a normal thing to say if you want to say that one could die, or two, or all three of the rescuers.

So all in all, I kinda thing you are grasping at will~o~the~wisps, with this one (although it's nicely written.)

caitlin: 2006-01-08

Knowing Moiraine, the whole plan to have Mat and Thom come and save her has something that will help develop the plot further. Maybe she is needed in the Last Battle, or maybe they'll meet someone on the way that will help Rand in the Last Battle. I don't think it necessarily has to be a code, her plan to get them to the tower could be more than just them helping her.

My opinion is that they'll go there and save her (Mat dying before the Last Battle? ummmm no) and somewhere before/after/during the rescue something will happen that will help them win the Last Battle, and that was Moiraine's plan all along, because it's true, she wouldn't just get them there just to help save her.

haertchen: 2006-01-09

I agree that Moiraine wouldn't necessarily invite them in just to help her, but we have Min's viewing that Rand would fail without a woman who was dead and gone (often assumed to refer to Moiraine), and it seems likely Min told Moiraine about it (if the assumption is correct), so I think we have a plausible scenario where Moiraine's letter just means what it says.

Shaitan13: 2006-01-10

I had a Civic's teacher two years ago who gave us a code to ciper for extra credit. I tried and tried and couldn't get it. Then I got bored and searched the internet for ciphers and found a thing called a box cipher, I forget how it works but, long story short, he had put the message in a box code, then in an nth letter code. That way, even if you cipher it with the box code it still makes no sense. So Jordan could have put this message into two kinds of codes so even if someone figures it out it makes no sense. But as to how Tom or anyone else could figure it out is beyond me, but who knows, Tom always seems to have a trick up his sleeve.

tworiverswoman: 2006-01-10

WAY more quotes than seem relevant, but a nicely put together theory, even if some people are snickering behind their hands.

OTOH, I notice she says "but I have put this off because I knew that I must, and now there is little time." I got the impression that she wrote this letter in extreme haste, only a very short while before the EVENT with Lanfear, which, unless she can write a complex coded letter in her sleep, does not seem to leave enough time to work one out as complex as this one would have to be in order to elude the hundreds/thousands of fans who tried to find something "conspiritorial" in her letter.

(ASIDE TO TAMRILYN) Why is the response box only 4 lines long? It's bloody hard to write in and keep track of any long sentances. I may have to write in WORD first, and paste it in. END OF ASIDE.

I don't remember the wording of the letter to Rand, but I feel they were fairly similar in tone -- a hasty penning of words she felt she HAD to get said before her future caught up with her.

That is one very brave woman. She redeemed herself from the typical Aes Sedai beautifully in that book.

The Librarian: 2006-01-16

I don't think the ciphered messages in Daes Dae'Mar are usually coded with mathematics, but with codewords, word trickery and other things that a computer would never understand, but a skilled player might. For example:

"I fear you mansion might get dusty."

Could mean I will kill you and all you family so everything you own will become dusty ruins.

If there is a message, it would propably be hidden in this way, rather than any mathemathical code.

I think if there is a hidden message, it would be hidden, because it must be figured out in a very precise moment.

And Moirane certainly could code a message half asleep with a dagger trough her arm riding a horse that tries to throw her off its back. And her handwriting would still be tidy. Moirane rocks!

Lord of the Dawn: 2006-01-17

Interesting theory, but I don't really think that letter contains a secret message.

***1) “There are many things I cannot tell you lest I bring disaster” – so we know that she is holding some things back. ***

What she's basically saying is there are many things of her future that she foresaw while in the Rhuidean rings, but if she tells those things, it could change the future from what it was going to be, possibly her not being rescued. If she told the things she saw then it could totally change everything, and probably for the worse.

***3) “That secret belongs to others.” – is using the word secret in a message a common way of saying that this message contains a secret message? ***

IMO, she wanted to protect the Wise Ones - she thought that that was something special and secret to them and she didn't want to betray their secret.

And if Moiraine actually wrote a code in that letter, why did she make it so hard? Thom's been working on it then for, around, 5 or 6 books and we all know how good Thom is. Him reading it constantly seems to me to be because he loves Moiraine - If he wanted to crack a code, he would be writing on paper while examining the message. Thom has played the Cairhienin Game of Houses and is one of the best at it, and Moiraine lived in Cairhien, so how would it take him so long to crack this code? Remember they didn't have computers back then so they couldn't just enter it in. It seems to me very against the idea that Moiraine has hidden a code in the letter.

haertchen: 2006-01-17

"If there is a message, it would propably be hidden in this way, rather than any mathemathical code. "

There was a message hidden that way. Unfortunately for this theory, we had all the information we needed to understand it, which is just what Moiraine knew would happen...

El Bogarto: 2006-01-18

Quick question, since we're promoting conspiracy theories; how do we know the letter Thom is reading is the same letter that Moiraine wrote?

The seal on Thom’s letter changes from a Great Serpent symbol (when Mo drops off the letter), to House Damodred's symbol (when Rand gives it to Mat).

tFoH – CH52 – Choices

"More letters?" he said. One bore his name in an elegant hand that he recognized immediately. "From you, Moiraine?" The other carried Thom Merrilin's name. Both had been sealed with blue wax, apparently with her Great Serpent ring, impressed with the image of the snake biting its own tail.

LoC – CH33 – Courage to Strengthen

"Thom Merrilin should be with Elayne." Rand produced a letter from his pocket, folded and sealed. "See that he gets this." Shoving the letter into Mat’s hands, he hurriedly left the tent.

…

Still, it was no concern of his. He turned the letter over in his hands. Thom’s name was written in a feminine hand; the seal was one he did not recognize, a spreading tree topped by a crown. What noblewoman would be writing to a leathery old man like Thom?

Did Tor catch this and fix it in subsequent printings?

Or is there a case for a replacement letter?

stb: 2006-01-18

I nominate El Bogarto as the most observent WOT reader ever.

Callandor: 2006-01-19

If someone picked Mat's pocket, they have the most amazing ability to see directly into the future and fit perfectly into accepted theories ;)

More than likely, if not assuredly, it's an error.

lurk: 2006-01-21

If there was a code in daes damar style I find it very hard to believe that Thom could not decode it. He is a master at the great game. One of the best at it going by the books.

True Moiraine being and an aes sedai and a cairhienin would also be a master at it of course. But still I would put my money on Thom in this case.

So I do not believe in a daes damar cipher, unnless Thom is holding back something from Mat which I find very unlikely too, for he really needs Mat in this one.

El Bogarto: 2006-01-22

True, Callandor, true ;)

I had a paranoid moment, and thought perhaps Rand opened it. It would be like him, and since we know the letter wasn't warded...

ski309: 2006-01-23

if Bogarto's observation isn't just a typo, it might mean that Rand snooped.

Hank McCoy: 2006-01-24

Here is the letter to Rand:

These words will fade within moments after this leaves your hands – a warding attuned to you – so be careful of it. That you are reading this means that events have fallen out at the docks as I hoped. Since the first day I reached Rhuidean, I have known – it need not trouble you how, some secrets belong to others, and I will not betray them – that a day would come in Cairhien when news would arrive of Morgase. I did not know what that would be – if what we heard is true, the Light have mercy on her soul; she was willful and stubborn, with the temper of a lioness at times, but for all that a true, good and gracious queen – but each time that news led to the docks on the following day. There were three branches from the docks, but if you are reading this, I am gone, and so is Lanfear. The other two paths were much worse. Down one, Lanfear killed you. Down the other, she carried you away, and when next we saw you, you called yourself Lews Therin Telamon and were her devoted lover.

I hope that Egwene and Aviendha have survived unharmed. You see, I do not know what happens in the world after, except perhaps for one small thing which does not concern you. I could not tell you, for the same reason I could not tell Lan. Even given the choices, I could not be sure which you would pick. Men of the Two Rivers, it seems, retain much of storied Manetheren in them, traits shared with men of the Borderlands. It is said that a Borderlander will take a dagger's wound to avoid harm to a woman and count it fair trade. I dared not risk that you would place my life above your own, certain that somehow you could sidestep fate. Not a risk, I fear, but a foolish certainty, as today has surely proved.

A few final points. If Lan has not already gone, tell him that what I did to him, I did for the best. He will understand one day, and I hope, bless me for it. Trust no woman fully who is now Aes Sedai. I do not speak simply of the Black Ajah, though you must always be watchful for them. Be as suspicious of Verin as you are of Alviarin. We have made the world dance as we sang for three thousand years. That is a difficult habit to break, as I have learned while dancing to your song. You must dance free, and even the best intentioned of my sisters may well try to guide your steps as I once did.

Please deliver Thom Merrilin's letter safely when you meet him again. There is a small matter that I once told him of which I must make clear for his peace of mind.

Lastly, be wary too of Master Jasin Natael. I cannot approve wholly, but I understand. Perhaps it was the only way. Yet be careful of him. He is the same man now that he always was. Remember that always.

May the Light illumine and protect you. You will do well.

Moiraine

haertchen: 2006-01-24

Rand snooping is a possiblity, but I really don't think so.

Don't you think him learning that Moiraine was alive might have had some, you know, impact on him? I mean, the letter comes out and says *that* pretty clearly.

nsondej: 2006-01-25

just a thought about the snakes and foxes game...always was waiting for the saying to come into play in the books...think about it...iron, music and fire. Maybe the only real code is who should come...music may come from tom, and mat most likely has the iron from the ashanderi (at least that's wat im thinking) or even better the medallion (interesting use there maybe) so the third person may have something to do with fire...could it be rand now that he has been blinded by fire (note that i didnt read KoD yet so im not sure about that just heard about rand and a fireball)? just a thought.

If robert jordan doesn't make this simple enough book 12 is gonnna belike a dictionary. Theres another thought for you...he cant have too much complexity in this answer cause the book wont allow for it even with 2000 pages

Ashaman Samuel: 2006-01-25

haertchen's point is probably true. Mo is at the top of that list Rand keeps isn't it? If he knew she was alive wouldn't that have been in one of his POV's? Assuming he read the letter of course, and the evidence seems to be against that.

Callandor: 2006-01-25

Yes, Rand obviously hasn't read it. We have no mention of him reading the letter, nor seeing him even attempt to open it, and it's information would have a perfound impact on him if he knew what it contained -- especially in Knife of Dreams. Rand didn't read it or open it.

Balinor: 2006-01-26

Good theory, I like it. One important point I'd like to make:

**And if Moiraine actually wrote a code in that letter, why did she make it so hard? Thom's been working on it then for, around, 5 or 6 books and we all know how good Thom is. Him reading it constantly seems to me to be because he loves Moiraine - If he wanted to crack a code, he would be writing on paper while examining the message. Thom has played the Cairhienin Game of Houses and is one of the best at it, and Moiraine lived in Cairhien, so how would it take him so long to crack this code? Remember they didn't have computers back then so they couldn't just enter it in. It seems to me very against the idea that Moiraine has hidden a code in the letter. **

Thom keeps rereading the letter, because Mat has to ask him about it before he can show it to him. It's unlikely that Mat would ask about it if Thom didn't keep bringing it out and reading it. Thom's a sly old codger, and he'd know Mat wouldn't remember the letter unless he kept seeing it.

fistandantilus: 2006-02-01

In regards to the certain phrases, such as "one or two or all three" and "you and Mat Cauthon and another," that doesn't really fit with what we know of Moiraine. Very neat, precise, and in most of the letter grammatically correct. Those lines should have been written as "If you try, it must be only you, Mat, and one other," and "I have seen you try -and die- one, two, or all three." (I think thats right) Moiraine is obviously a smart woman, why would she throw such blatant grammatical errors in an otherwise well written letter?

sarutobi: 2006-02-10

One thing about who the third person will be. We know she says that it is a man that she does not know but i dont think it was hidden from her i think its more that she saw the person but did not reconize them. This would mean that it couldnt be Rand or Perrin.

haertchen: 2006-02-15

fistandantilus:

Grammar is nice and good and all, and it's important to know the rules and to use them automicatically. It helps keep ideas clean and coherent, and it makes things easier to read.

The thing is, though, that grammar is really a heuristic more than it is a rule. Grammatically correct is usually more appropriate and more readable, but part of being a good author is knowing when to break the rules. Sometimes the rules are more restrictive than the benefit from following them.

In this case, it's true that parts of the letter are, technically, grammatically incorrect. This is for a reason: Moiraine is going for emphasis. She really wants to be rescued. She has to convey just how serious she is about who can come and who can't. That's why she breaks the rules of technical grammar. It has to be short and abrupt to get their attention. If a few rules bend, well, writing is about communication, not rules.

Rhiale: 2006-02-20

As for the theory from nsondej that it contains who should come and/or who should bring what, I don't readily agree. Yes, Thom is the most likely candidate for the music, Mat though, I would say, is more likely to bring fire, if you take into account his obsession with fireworks and Aludra making all those "strikers", and Noal the iron, since he seems to be soo friggin amazing with those daggers in spite of having arthritis. That is all well and good if you say only one man can bring one item.

Now to deviate and bring up another theory string. If you look in the theory about Thom and blue flashes of light and meeting Myrdraal blah blah blah, you see many quotes by RJ that Thom's daggers are VERY special. Maybe he has some super iron daggers or something. Maybe he brings music, fire, and iron himself because he is so in love with Moiraine (who knows maybe they will have a bunch of Aes Sedi/Asha Man/Gleemen(women) spy children). Or you could say they all have to bring all three items, each with and instument of music, iron, and a way of making fire (the "strikers" remember, Aludra could make a lot for them if they really needed her to). Thom could handle finding great instruments of music for them, Mat could convince Aludra to make a butt load of strikers in exchange for helping her make her dragons (cannons), and Noal could find the best of iron weapons for them, being so good with such things (If you notice from KoD, Noal is related to the famous Jain Farstrider, or could he be Jain himself?) Anyway, what I'm getting at is that if the hidden message exists as a planning system for who should bring what, that would make Thom the leader, which would make sense because of his feelings. But, how could they each be protected from the Finn if they each only possess one of the necessary items.

I believe that if you find a message in there, it will be something either vastly more important (like a way to help with TG) or something infinitely less significant (like her undying affection and what not, or maybe how many kids they will have, who knows) So in short, I believe there might be a message, but I believe that it will be about something more important than the details of her rescue, or something emotional for Thom.

Ishamael666: 2006-02-22

If there is a secret message, it's much more likely that it has certain "keywords" than a mathematical cipher. We've seen evidence of this type of "code" before, in Moiraine's letter to the Tower telling that Rand had taken the Stone and withdrawn the Sword that Ain't.

haertchen: 2006-02-23

If there is a secret message, it's much more likely that it has certain "keywords" than a mathematical cipher. We've seen evidence of this type of "code" before, in Moiraine's letter to the Tower telling that Rand had taken the Stone and withdrawn the Sword that Ain't.

****

That's the thing. In order for a cipher with keywords to work, the reciever has to have some idea of the significance of the words. When Moiraine sent her message to Suian (sp?), she knew the context would be the DR (what else could it possibly be?) They probably arranged it in advance.

In this case, when would such a cipher have been established? If it is just based on keywords that relate to what we already know about, and that are obvious to the recipients without training, then it's really just plain text, like I've already argued...

Darkelve: 2006-02-24

Thought I'd chime in with this thought:

the reason why Thom can't show Mat the letter unless he asks about is, could be because of his taveren-ess: Mat's "coincidental luck" might tell him the exact moment when to ask and decide to set out. If Thom had just shown him, the 'coincidental' part would've been absent, possibly spelling disaster.

arcaneix: 2006-02-25

There is a cipher.i think tom knows it but cant tell.he rereads the letter so mat will ask.YOUNG MAT,mats protoge,aka olver who states how to enter.it was coded because it was read,the change in wax seals.one,two or all three a possible crack,a rotating every 1,2,or3 letter cypher. now this is a stretch,the names of the red ajah that stilled thoms newphew are a possible crack,one i think thoms knows those names already,that his nephew is actually galad(he was morgases lover and is not always truthful)explaining a red ajah advisor,and galads disposition towards aes sedai as well as his coldness in general aka a loss for the love of life that is channeling,meaning elaida is one of those names and a possible crack.just theorys mind you.

JakOShadows: 2006-02-26

***There is a cipher.i think tom knows it but cant tell.he rereads the letter so mat will ask.YOUNG MAT,mats protoge,aka olver who states how to enter.it was coded because it was read,the change in wax seals.one,two or all three a possible crack,a rotating every 1,2,or3 letter cypher. now this is a stretch,the names of the red ajah that stilled thoms newphew are a possible crack,one i think thoms knows those names already,that his nephew is actually galad(he was morgases lover and is not always truthful)explaining a red ajah advisor,and galads disposition towards aes sedai as well as his coldness in general aka a loss for the love of life that is channeling,meaning elaida is one of those names and a possible crack.just theorys mind you. ***

I do think it could possible be the names of the red ajah, or way to figure it out. But I'm fairly certain that Galad can not channel. Because Thom talks like his nephew died shortly after he was gentled. And actually, I believe in the first book, he actually mentions a name, and since I don't remember the name it most likely isn't Galad. But alas, I do not have my books with me. I am fairly sure that you are off with that assumption though.

Yaga Shura: 2006-02-28

arcaneix:

"i think ,that [Thom's] nephew is actually galad"

Sorry, no.

Firstly, Thom's nephew was named Owyn

Secondly, Owyn is dead

TITLE: Great Hunt, CHAPTER: 26 - Discord

"Thom studied the tabletop, pursing his lips. "I don't suppose there is any use in denying it. You understand, it is not the kind of thing a man talks about, having a male relative who could channel. Aaagh! The Red Ajah never gave Owyn a chance. They gentled him, and then he died. He just gave up wanting to live . . ."

haertchen: 2006-02-28

***the reason why Thom can't show Mat the letter unless he asks about is, could be because of his taveren-ess: Mat's "coincidental luck" might tell him the exact moment when to ask and decide to set out. If Thom had just shown him, the 'coincidental' part would've been absent, possibly spelling disaster.***

Probably. In the time since Thom has recieved the letter, Matt has

(1)met and married Tuon,

(2)gotten a good look at the Seanchen military and capabilities,

(3)freed the Sea Folk channelers from the Seanchen, and

(4)learned about Aludra's dragons.

I'm saying the timing had to be just right to fit Moiraine-saving into Matt's busy world-saving schedule.

Canan Urgas: 2006-03-07

I have heard that there is a secret message which indeed is the name of those responsible for thoms nephews gentling and that it was cadsuane. It very well could have been her as well as shes dealt with more men that can channel beforee most people, even before rand started the ashaman. It wasnt necessarily Red Sisters

Venhart: 2006-03-07

**4) “young Mat” – she refers to Mat by name five times and only once tosses in the seemingly superfluous young once. Though if the code has something to do with every Nth letter, than the additional word would be important. **

Isn't it possible that Moiraine is not refering to Mat at all but to his next to adopted brother Olver. If the message was to be found by every Nth letter don't you think there would be something to point it out in the slightest. Olver is always playing Snakes and Foxes so isn't it possible that he is the third person, in all the times he's played it it's highly possible he's learned how to find and defeat the Finn.

stb: 2006-03-07

If what Canan Urgas says is true than the code should be easy to break by working backwards. Just find all the c's, the a's the d's the s's the u's and so on until you spell Cadsuane then look for a pattern.

haertchen: 2006-03-07

******I have heard that there is a secret message which indeed is the name of those responsible for thoms nephews gentling and that it was cadsuane. It very well could have been her as well as shes dealt with more men that can channel beforee most people, even before rand started the ashaman. It wasnt necessarily Red Sisters********

I sure hope you can back that up. I've heard lots of things on the net, but without the key, I'm never gonna believe it.

Ishamael666: 2006-03-09

TITLE: The Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: – Deceptions

"I will tell you the names of those Red sisters when I see you next, as well as the name of the one who gave them their orders. They did not act on their own."

From Moiraine's Oath-bound mouth.

And it's much more likely Owyn was caught up in the "Vileness", which Cadsuane had no part of.

Yaga Shura: 2006-03-10

Canan Urgas:

**I have heard that there is a secret message which indeed is the name of those responsible for thoms nephews gentling and that it was cadsuane. It very well could have been her as well as shes dealt with more men that can channel beforee most people, even before rand started the ashaman. It wasnt necessarily Red Sisters**

The only way the message could name Cadsuane as having been responsible for gentling Owyn (Thom’s nephew) is if Moiraine did not know Cadsuane’s Ajah. She directly blamed the Red Ajah and the Red Ajah alone for the gentling, and she cannot lie.

**TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 17 – Deceptions

"To protect Elayne? Morgase's daughter?" "I have not seen Morgase in fifteen years, Elayne was an infant when I left Caemlyn." She hesitated, but when she spoke her voice was unrelentingly firm. "And your reason for leaving Andor? A nephew named Owyn, I believe. One of those poor fools you spoke of who can channel. The Red sisters were supposed to bring him to Tar Valon, as any such man is, but instead they gentled him on the spot and abandoned him to the ... mercies of his neighbors."**

However, she knew Cadsuane’s Ajah as of New Spring (the novel)

**TITLE: New Spring, CHAPTER: 19 - Pond Water

She was, and for another night besides, but there was always the chance Cadsuane had promised the servants rewards to watch her movements. In the Green sister's place, she would have.**

There’s not a chance of it being Cadsuane.

Ishamael666: 2006-03-10

Thought I submitted a reply to this already.

The Shadow Rising, Deceptions

"I will tell you the names of those Red sisters when I see you next, as well as the name of the one who gave them their orders. They did not act on their own."

haertchen: 2006-03-10

*******If what Canan Urgas says is true than the code should be easy to break by working backwards. Just find all the c's, the a's the d's the s's the u's and so on until you spell Cadsuane then look for a pattern.*******

That's assuming that the cipher doesn't do something like have all the letters off by one.

I'm still skeptical, though. This is the kind of claim that should be backed up with the actual key present. Just claiming something is easy. In this case, because the claim contradicts the general consensus on Cadsuane's actions and Owen's gentling, I'm not gonna believe it until I see it.

(For those who don't know: the general consensus, maybe false, is that Owen was gentled by the Red Ajah as part of the "vileness" after the Aeil war. Cadsuane is the person who called it the "vileness," shedding doubt that she was the one who did it. I have not read New Spring, so if there is any help there, please point it out.)

ScorpiOve: 2006-09-08

This is an exciting theory, no matter if it is true or not.

- Why wouldn't Moiraine tell them things straight out and instead make a cypher?

She might have seen them having to figure things out by the selves. We have never been told what she saw inside the rings, only that some things has to be carried out in a certain way. That's what made the wise one's so scared when they accidentally(?) told Moiraine that she had to go to Rhuidian.

- Why would Mat have to ASK to see the letter?

Mat's contempt towards Aes Sedai and the Power would surely have made him run the other way, as all the main charaters do when people tell them things straight out (and they try that even when they are manipulated too). If/When he showed interest in the letter, he would be ready to accept what he needed to do. Either by wanting to help or realize how much it seems to mean to Thom.

- Who will/must go?

Remembering the game of snakes and foxes means that they will need to follow the chant made before the game: "Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to daze, iron to bind."

The Finns have also said that those things may not be brought accoring to the rules. (They never said anything about bravery...) We all know that they have to break the rules and bring those things. But what's up with the three Moiraine said should come? And why emphatize the one, two, three-thing so often?

Maybe it is another rule that have to be broken, meaning "You have to be more than three people!" That means that they can bring both Noal, Olver and Aludra, and I am sure the fire will be Illuminator made which means that Aludra must be involved somehow (duh!). Maybe to blow a hole in the tower or throw fireworks or maybe just give Mat more fireworks so he can throw them about.

One thing leaning towards the presence of only three could be that fact that the world of the snakes almost were destroyed when three people were there (Rand, Mat and Moiraine). Moiraine seemed to think it was because of two Ta'veren at the same time, but maybe she has reconcidered that efter her Rhuidian visit.

Brother Grymm: 2007-03-25

"I will tell you the names of those Red sisters when I see you next, as well as the name of the one who gave them their orders. They did not act on their own."

Just thought I'd point out to the people that are saying in can't be Cadsuane due to her not being Red Ajah, and that the only way it could be Cadsuane is that if Moiraine didn't know her Ajah, you obviously haven't paid much attention. Moiraine clearly states there was someone involved other than a Red Sister. Not just involved, but giving the orders. Now, I may be a bit rusty, but doesn't Cadsuane always give the orders when she's involved with anything?

Anyway, I don't have much else to add, other than that the letter would appear to have an encrypted message, but I can't see it. Someone told me that it has to have the names of the Red Sisters, to clear Moiraine's conscience of havign told Thom she would, but think, she said she would tell him the next time she saw him. I'm kinda a bit rusty, and can't remember the order of things, but the letter to Rand says that the letter to Thom is about something to clear her conscience (Which would lead some to point out that it has to have the names of the Red Ajah in it, but you aren't listening!) If you assume that Min never told Moiraine how important she was to Rand in the last battle (Assuming it is Moiraine...) Moiraine has no reason to try and get herself rescued, except that she promised to give Thom the names of those Red Ajah bitches when she SAW him next. Not in a letter. You may not think it important, but it was said bound by the oathrod, so I don't see any reason to doubt it ;)

Ehh, its late here, I'm not entirely sure I wrote everything I had planned (I know I didn't do the quotes in places I wanted, but I was too lazy to go back and get them...) if it seems like an unfinished post, blame it on the booze.

Marie Curie 7: 2007-04-03

Brother Grymm:
"Just thought I'd point out to the people that are saying in can't be Cadsuane due to her not being Red Ajah, and that the only way it could be Cadsuane is that if Moiraine didn't know her Ajah, you obviously haven't paid much attention. Moiraine clearly states there was someone involved other than a Red Sister. Not just involved, but giving the orders. Now, I may be a bit rusty, but doesn't Cadsuane always give the orders when she's involved with anything?"

Are you suggesting that Cadsuane was involved in the vileness? Not likely. One reason is that she directly questions Annoura and Merana about it:

-------
TITLE: Crown of Swords, CHAPTER: 19 - Diamonds and Stars

Breathing the steam from her teacup, Cadsuane went on, suddenly chatting pleasantly. "It was Logain, practically on my doorstep, that lured me away from my roses. Phaw! A scuffle at a sheep fair could have lured me from those Light-cursed plants. What's the point if you use the Power, but do it without, and you grow ten thousand thorns for every -- Phaw! I actually considered taking the oath as a Hunter, if the Council of Nine would allow it. Well. It was a nice few months, chasing down Logain, but once he was taken, escorting him to Tar Valon appealed as much as the roses. I wandered a bit, to see what I could find, perhaps a new Warder, though it's a bit late for that in any fairness to the man, I suppose. Then I heard of Taim, and I was off to Saldaea as fast I could ride. There's nothing for a bit of excitement like a man who can channel." Abruptly her voice hardened, and her gaze. "Were either of you involved in that... vileness... right after the Aiel War?"
-------

If she had been involved, I doubt that she would be questioning the other two sisters about it. In addition, though, we know that she brings the men she captures to the Tower, and they generally live longer than those brought in by other sisters:

-------
TITLE: Crown of Swords, CHAPTER: GLOSSARY

Cadsuane Melaidhrin: An Aes Sedai of the Green Ajah who has approached legendary status among Aes Sedai while still alive, though in truth most sisters believe she must be years dead by now. Thought to have been born born around 705 NE in Ghealdan, which would make her the oldest living Aes Sedai, she was also the strongest in the Power found for a thousand years or more until the advent of Nynaeve, Elayne and Egwene and even they do not far out-step her. Although a Green, over the years she has confronted and captured more men who could channel by far than any other living sister; a little-known oddity is that the men she brought to the White Tower tended to live markedly longer after being gentled than those brought by other sisters.
-------

Are you suggesting that there was someone involved other than a Red Sister based upon Moiraine's conversation with Thom in The Shadow Rising?:

------
TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 17 - Deceptions

She hesitated, but when she spoke her voice was unrelentingly firm. "And your reason for leaving Andor? A nephew named Owyn, I believe. One of those poor fools you spoke of who can channel. The Red sisters were supposed to bring him to Tar Valon, as any such man is, but instead they gentled him on the spot and abandoned him to the... mercies of his neighbors."

Thom knocked his chair over standing up, then had to hold on to the table because his knees were shaking. Owyn had not lived long after being gentled, driven from his home by supposed friends who could not bear to let even a man who could no longer channel live among them. Nothing Thom did could stop Owyn not wanting to live, or stop his young wife from following him to the grave inside the month.

"Why... ?" He cleared his throat roughly, tried to make his voice less husky. "Why are you telling me this?"

There was sympathy on Moiraine's face. And could it be regret? Surely not. Not from an Aes Sedai. The sympathy had to be false as well. "I would not have done, had you been willing to go simply to help Elayne and Nynaeve."

"Why, burn you! Why?"

"If you go with Elayne and Nynaeve, I will tell you the names of those Red sisters when I see you next, as well as the name of the one who gave them their orders. They did not act on their own. And I will see you again. You will survive Tarabon."

He drew an uneven breath. "What good will their names do me?" he asked in a flat voice. "Aes Sedai names, wrapped in all the power of the White Tower."

"A skilled and dangerous player of the Game of Houses might find a use for them," she replied quietly. "They should not have done what they did. They should not have been excused for it."

"Will you leave me, please?"

"I will teach you that not all Aes Sedai are like those Reds, Thom. You must learn that."
-------

Where is the mention of anyone other than Reds being involved? When Moiraine says "I will tell you the names of those Red sisters when I see you next, as well as the name of the one who gave them their orders," she is simply stating that a group of Reds were ordered to carry out the dirty work and the one giving the orders didn't participate. We know that three Red Sitters were exiled as a result of the vileness:

-------
TITLE: Crown of Swords, CHAPTER: Prologue - Lightnings

"Of course not, Mother, but - " "Toveine is to lead; this task belongs properly to the Red." Toveine Gazal had been fifteen years away from the Tower, until Elaida summoned her back. The other two Red Sitters who had resigned and gone into a "voluntary" retreat at the same time were nervous-eyed women now, but unlike Lirene and Tsutama, Toveine had only hardened in her solitary exile. "She is to have fifty sisters." There could not be more than two or three men at this Black Tower actually able to channel, Elaida was certain. Fifty sisters could overwhelm them easily. Yet there might be others to deal with. Hangers-on, camp followers, fools full of futile hopes and insane ambitions. "And she is to take a hundred - no, two hundred - of the Guard."
-------

And we also know that Elaida somehow wiggled out of the trouble:

-------
TITLE: Path of Daggers, CHAPTER: 26 - The Extra Bit

She was sure Elaida thought her grateful for the chance, called back from exile and disgrace, given the opportunity for redemption. She sneered, and if a wolf had been looking into the deep hood of her cloak, it might have quailed. What had been done twenty years ago was necessary, and the Light burn all those who muttered that the Black Ajah must have been involved. It had been necessary and right, but Toveine Gazal had been driven from her chair in the Hall, and forced to howl for mercy under the birch, with the assembled sisters watching, and even novices and Accepted witnessing that Sitters, too, lay beneath the law, though they were not told what law. And then she had been sent to work these last twenty years on the isolated Black Hills farm of Mistress Jara Doweel, a woman who considered an Aes Sedai serving penance in exile no different from any other hand laboring in sun and snow. Toveine's hands shifted on her reins; she could feel the calluses. Mistress Doweel - even now, she could not think of the woman without the honorific she had demanded - Mistress Doweel believed in hard work. And discipline as tight as any novice faced! She had no mercy on anyone who tried to shirk the backbreaking labor that she herself shared, and less than none for a woman who sneaked away to comfort herself with a pretty boy. That had been Toveine's life these past twenty years. And Elaida had slipped through the cracks uncaught, danced her way to the Amyrlin Seat that Toveine had once dreamed of for herself. No, she was not grateful. But she had learned to wait her chance.
-------

Is there some other evidence that I'm missing that someone other than a Red sister is involved? A quote would be nice if you have anything else to add.

"Anyway, I don't have much else to add, other than that the letter would appear to have an encrypted message, but I can't see it. Someone told me that it has to have the names of the Red Sisters, to clear Moiraine's conscience of havign told Thom she would, but think, she said she would tell him the next time she saw him."

Yes, Moiraine said that she would tell Thom the names of the Reds when she next sees him -- that's in the quote above, from Moiraine's conversation with Thom in TSR.

"I'm kinda a bit rusty, and can't remember the order of things, but the letter to Rand says that the letter to Thom is about something to clear her conscience (Which would lead some to point out that it has to have the names of the Red Ajah in it, but you aren't listening!)"

No, the letter to Rand says that Moiraine's letter to Thom is about something to do with Thom's peace of mind, not Moiraine's. Here's the pertinent section of Moiraine's letter to Rand:

-------
TITLE: Fires of Heaven, CHAPTER: 53 - Fading Words

Please deliver Thom Merrilin's letter safely when you meet him again. There is a small matter that I once told him of which I must make clear for his peace of mind.
-------

"If you assume that Min never told Moiraine how important she was to Rand in the last battle (Assuming it is Moiraine...) Moiraine has no reason to try and get herself rescued, except that she promised to give Thom the names of those Red Ajah bitches when she SAW him next. Not in a letter. You may not think it important, but it was said bound by the oathrod, so I don't see any reason to doubt it ;)"

Moiraine said to Thom in The Shadow Rising, "I will tell you the names of those Red sisters when I see you next." And then, "And I will see you again." At the point that she says that to Thom, she had been through the doorframe ter'angreal in Tear but not through the rings in Rhuidean(and she had also perhaps had a viewing from Min). So, what she says at that point she believes to be true by the First Oath.

However, Moiraine does admit at the end of her letter to Thom that she may never see him again:

-------
TITLE: Knife of Dreams, CHAPTER: 10 - A Village in Shiota

May the Light illumine you and give you joy, my dearest Thom, whether or not we ever see one another again.
-------

But this is after she's been through the rings and seen her possible fate on the docks in Cairhien -- obviously she isn't so certain any more that she'll see Thom again.

vardene: 2007-04-08

marie,

------

TITLE: Knife of Dreams, CHAPTER: 10 - A Village in Shiota

May the Light illumine you and give you joy, my dearest

this seems proof of madoc's theory. she's convinced one moment thom would see her again, the next she's unsure. perhaps its supposed to mean something to thom that she is both certain and undecided.

vardene: 2007-04-08

marie,

-------

TITLE: Knife of Dreams, CHAPTER: 10 - A Village in Shiota

May the Light illumine you and give you joy, my dearest Thom, whether or not we ever see one another again.

-------

TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 17 - Deceptions

She hesitated, but when she spoke her voice was unrelentingly firm. "And your reason for leaving Andor? A nephew named Owyn, I believe. One of those poor fools you spoke of who can channel. The Red sisters were supposed to bring him to Tar Valon, as any such man is, but instead they gentled him on the spot and abandoned him to the... mercies of his neighbors."

Thom knocked his chair over standing up, then had to hold on to the table because his knees were shaking. Owyn had not lived long after being gentled, driven from his home by supposed friends who could not bear to let even a man who could no longer channel live among them. Nothing Thom did could stop Owyn not wanting to live, or stop his young wife from following him to the grave inside the month.

"Why... ?" He cleared his throat roughly, tried to make his voice less husky. "Why are you telling me this?"

There was sympathy on Moiraine's face. And could it be regret? Surely not. Not from an Aes Sedai. The sympathy had to be false as well. "I would not have done, had you been willing to go simply to help Elayne and Nynaeve."

"Why, burn you! Why?"

"If you go with Elayne and Nynaeve, I will tell you the names of those Red sisters when I see you next, as well as the name of the one who gave them their orders. They did not act on their own. And I will see you again. You will survive Tarabon."

He drew an uneven breath. "What good will their names do me?" he asked in a flat voice. "Aes Sedai names, wrapped in all the power of the White Tower."

"A skilled and dangerous player of the Game of Houses might find a use for them," she replied quietly. "They should not have done what they did. They should not have been excused for it."

"Will you leave me, please?"

"I will teach you that not all Aes Sedai are like those Reds, Thom. You must learn that."

-------

taking moiraine's two statements together it seems she is rather confused as to whether she'll survive the future or not, or its probably proof that there is a secret message to thom in this. Two actually.

Marie Curie 7: 2007-04-22

vardene:
"taking moiraine's two statements together it seems she is rather confused as to whether she'll survive the future or not, or its probably proof that there is a secret message to thom in this. Two actually."

Sorry, vardene, but it seems as if you've totally missed the point about the timing of the two statements made by Moiraine. I've already pointed this out once, but apparently it wasn't clear to you the first time.

The first statement that you quote, from Moiraine's letter to Thom, "May the Light illumine you and give you joy, my dearest Thom, whether or not we ever see one another again," was written by Moiraine after she had been through the rings in Rhuidean. She had at that point seen the possible paths leading from the docks in Cairhien and was aware of the choices that she would have to make. Thus, she is not certain whether or not she will see Thom again.

The second statement that you quote is from Moiraine's conversation with Thom in The Shadow Rising, "If you go with Elayne and Nynaeve, I will tell you the names of those Red sisters when I see you next, as well as the name of the one who gave them their orders. They did not act on their own. And I will see you again. You will survive Tarabon." Moiraine says this to Thom before she has gone through the rings in Rhuidean. At this point, she has perhaps had a viewing from Min in addition to having gone through the red doorframe ter'agreal in Tear. Thus, prior to seeing her possible futures in the rings in Rhuidean, she has no reason to believe that she is not correct in saying that she will see Thom again. She speaks what she believes to be true at that point in time. There's no contradiction, and this provides no evidence to support any hidden messages in Moiraine's letter.

TheJester: 2007-04-24

I think also that it can be interpreted as a threat. Moiraine had thought previously that she needed to seperate Rand from Thom. I think it was about Thom setting Rand up to rule and Rand was getting to comfortable, that he had to move rather than let his enemies come at him.

She states that, "You will survive Tarabon." implying that he won't survie if he does not go. We know that Moiraine would be prepared to kill people if they endangered her plans for the Dragon.

So the statement could be read with the spirit of Daes-damar, you will survive because you are resourceful and know how to survive in Tarabon, but I tell you you won't survive if you don't go and as an added bonus I'll give you the names of the sisters.

Quite a good stick and carrot and has many qualities of daes-damar in it, the playing off his emotions for his Nephew and Elayne whilst holding a threat in front of him.

Marie Curie 7: 2007-05-02

TheJester:
"I think also that it can be interpreted as a threat. Moiraine had thought previously that she needed to seperate Rand from Thom. I think it was about Thom setting Rand up to rule and Rand was getting to comfortable, that he had to move rather than let his enemies come at him."

She states that, "You will survive Tarabon." implying that he won't survie if he does not go. We know that Moiraine would be prepared to kill people if they endangered her plans for the Dragon."

It's true that Moiraine wanted to separate Thom from Rand; however, I think you are misinterpreting her statement about Thom surviving Tarabon. If you read the earlier part of the conversation between Moiraine and Thom in The Shadow Rising, I think it's clear that Moiraine is simply giving Thom assurances that he will survive the danger of Tanchico if he goes along to protect the girls, particularly Elayne:

------
TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 17 - Deceptions

Would nothing shake the woman? "What do you want of me?" he demanded irritably. She did not as much as blink. "Elayne and Nynaeve take ship for Tanchico today. A dangerous city, Tanchico. Your knowledge and skills might keep them alive."
So that was it. She wanted to separate him from Rand, leave the boy naked to her manipulations. "As you say, Tanchico is dangerous now, but then it always was. I wish the young women well, yet I've no wish to stick my head into a vipers' nest. I am too old for that sort of thing. I have been thinking of taking up farming. A quiet life. Safe."
"A quiet life would kill you, I think." Sounding distinctly amused, she busied herself rearranging the folds of her skirt with small, slender hands. He had the impression she was hiding a smile. "Tanchico will not, however. I guarantee that, and by the First Oath, you know it for truth." He frowned at her despite his best efforts to keep his face straight. She had said it, and she could not lie, yet how could she know? He was sure she could not Foretell; he was certain he had heard her disavow the Talent. But she had said it. Burn the woman! "Why should I go to Tanchico?" She could do without titles.
"To protect Elayne? Morgase's daughter?"
------

I don't really see any threat from Moiraine in that part of the passage or the rest that implies that Thom won't survive if he stays in Tear and doesn't go with the girls to Tanchico -- not even a hidden Daes Dae'mar one. In fact, Moiraine later expresses some regret that she had to send Thom away:

------
TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 21 - Into the Heart

For an instant she regretted sending Thom away. She did not like having to waste her time with these petty affairs. But he had too much influence with Rand; the boy had to depend on her counsel. Hers, and hers alone. The Light knew he was difficult enough without interference. Thom had been settling the boy down to rule Tear when he needed to be moving on to greater things. But that was dealt with for now. The problem of bringing Thom Merrilin to heel could be managed later. Rand was the dilemma now. What did he mean to announce?
------

"So the statement could be read with the spirit of Daes-damar, you will survive because you are resourceful and know how to survive in Tarabon, but I tell you you won't survive if you don't go and as an added bonus I'll give you the names of the sisters."

Another reason that Moiraine would not have been threatening Thom in the way that you are suggesting (with death if he refuses to go to Tanchico) is that Thom and Moiraine already have feelings for one another at that point. When he enters his room, Thom thinks about Moiraine:

------
TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 17 - Deceptions

Pushing open the door to his room, he stopped in his tracks. Moiraine straightened as if she had a perfect right to be going through the papers scattered on his table and calmly arranged her skirts as she sat on the stool. Now there was a beautiful woman, with every grace a man could want, including laughing at his quips. Fool! Old fool! She's Aes Sedai, and you're too tired to think straight.
------

And shortly before this is when Moiraine makes the statement about the face of the man she will marry during a conversation with the girls:

------
TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 6 - Doorways

"She got it wrong," Egwene said half to herself, a delighted grin blooming on her face. "Have you ever been in love, Moiraine?"
What a startling question. Elayne could not imagine the Aes Sedai in love. Moiraine was Blue Ajah, and it was said Blue sisters gave all their passions to causes.
The slender woman was not at all taken aback. For a long moment she looked levelly at the pair of them, each with an arm around the other. Finally she said, "I could wager I know the face of the man I will marry better than either of you knows that of your future husband."
------

Moiraine's statement is generally taken to mean that she probably has had a viewing from Min, and that the man she will marry is Thom. And, in her conversation with Thom, he wonders why she is displaying sympathy for him:

------
TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 17 - Deceptions

"Why... ?" He cleared his throat roughly, tried to make his voice less husky. "Why are you telling me this?"
There was sympathy on Moiraine's face. And could it be regret? Surely not. Not from an Aes Sedai. The sympathy had to be false as well. "I would not have done, had you been willing to go simply to help Elayne and Nynaeve."
------

"Quite a good stick and carrot and has many qualities of daes-damar in it, the playing off his emotions for his Nephew and Elayne whilst holding a threat in front of him."

Moiraine certainly was manipulating Thom's feelings for Elayne and Owyn. She used the promise of the names of the Red Sisters to lure him into doing her bidding, but there was no hidden or subtle threat of death from Moiraine if Thom did not go to Tanchico. Moiraine even tells Thom that she would not even have brought up Owyn if he had agreed to go in order to protect Elayne.

A-Vron: 2007-05-24

On 9/8/06 ScorpiOve asked “Why would Mat have to ask to see the letter?” The truth is he doesn’t. Moiraine’s letter to Thom only stated that Mat needed to ask ABOUT the letter. As soon as Mat does Thom hands it over to Mat, who finally does read it (after a bit of reluctance).



KOD p.273

“If you don’t mind my asking, Thom, why do you read that letter the way you do? I mean, sometimes your face looks like you’re trying to puzzle out what it means.” Olver yelped with glee at a good toss of the dice.

“That’s because I am. In a way. Here.” He held out the letter , but Mat shook his head.

“It’s no business of mine, Thom. It’s your letter, and I’m no good with puzzles.”

“Oh, it’s your business, too. Moiraine wrote it just before …Well, anyway, she wrote it.

Mat stared at him a long moment before taking the creased page.

So Mat didn’t have to ask to see it, just ask about it.

ScorpiOve also asked “Who will/must go?” This question is harder. Mat & Thom are obvious, but the 3rd person, that Moiraine says she doesn’t know, is up in the air. At least we only have 2 real options of who it could be, Noal & Olver, as they are the only others present when this rescue plan is discussed. Noal would make more sense to go, and he even volunteers to go saying “Would you mind if I made the third? I can be handy in tight spots, you know.” But Olver is an interesting option as he is the resident pro at the Snakes & Foxes game.

In the end I think Noal will the the 3rd because Moiraine’s letter states “It also may be that you and Mat Cauthon and another, a man I do not know, will try to rescue me.” It says a man, not a boy. Also, I read nothing into the use of Mat’s surname in this instance.

So, we’ve got a decent idea of who will be attempting the rescue, we know that you have to “cheat in order to win” against Snakes & Foxes (meaning they are going to have to bring at least one item of metal, music or fire to Finn-land), & because of Birgitte, Olver knows how to get inside. Olver said that Birgitte told him that using a bronze knife to draw the beginning symbols for the game Snakes & Foxes on the Tower of Ghenjei will give you an entrance.

The thing we don’t know is actually where Moiraine is. Could her letter have any hints to this hidden in it? All that we know of the Tower of Ghenjei is that it is ‘a doorway to the lands of the Aelfinn & the Eelfinn.’

Moiraine fell through the doorway from Rhuidean, so she went to the land of the Eelfinn and likely was given the opportunity to have some loaded wishes granted. What did she then wish for? Did she have any prior inclinations (from the terangreal rings) as to what to wish for or what to do after she ended up trapped in Finn-land? If so, maybe there are clues to this hidden in the letter. I couldn’t find any, but maybe you guys can.

evilcarebear: 2010-10-13

Just a theory, but Moiraine could have written a code in the letter intended for Mat and Thom, but not Noal. If the theory that Noal is Jain Farstrider, and Farstrider is a darkfriend is correct, it is possible, if extremely elaborate, that Moiraine could have known this by seeing Noal betray them or something, and written a warning for Mat and Thom. Just a highly improbably theory.

It would be like Moiraine to write a hidden message, and i'm going to try, but i think people should look for important words in their last conversation and play around with them. Like, remove all those letters or something, I don't know. I'm going to try, but just in case anyone else feels like torturing themselves...