fter Tarmon Gai'don
by Myrelle Sedai: 2007-02-25 | 2.92 out of 10 (13 votes)
Ok, this is my first theory.
I think that Rand will win the Last Battle and survive, though he will be badly injured. He will get better/be healed, then go as a beggar to Tar Valon where he will be brought to the Tower and gentled by Egwene. He will probably die soon after.
First, Rand will win the Last Battle and survive.
There are 6 references to Rand’s blood in the Karaethon Cycle.
“Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us, yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the Last Battle, and his blood shall give us the Light.â€
"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.
Once for mourning, once for birth.
Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.
In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."
"The blood of the Dragon Reborn on the rocks of Shayol Ghul will free mankind from the Shadow."
"His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man's salvation."
-Min’s viewing, TEotW chapter 15
“Black rock wet with bloodâ€
There are seven references to Rand’s death.
-Twice in the Dark Prophecy, TGH chapter 7,
“Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still.â€
“Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal.â€
-Nicola’s Foretelling, LoC, chapter 14,
“Three on the boat and he who is dead yet lives.â€
-In The Karaethon Cycle, TGH chapter 26
“Twice and twice shall he be marked,
twice to live and twice to die.â€
-Min’s viewing, TEotW chapter 15
“Three women standing over a funeral bier with you on itâ€
One of the answers to Rand’s questions to the Aelfinn,
“If you would live, you must die."
-Egwene's dream
"A man lay dying in a narrow bed, and it was important that he not die, yet outside a funeral pyre was being built, and voices raised songs of joy and sadness."
CoS, Chapter 10, Unseen Eyes, Page 203
Why would people be singing for joy at a funeral, unless it was the Dragon Reborn’s funeral?
So, yes, Rand will die, but not necessarily at Tarmon Gai’don.
Cadsuane thinks that Rand might survive Tarmon Gai’don.
"He is turning into a stone, Verin, and if he doesn't relearn that he is human, winning the Last Battle may not be much better then losing.†WH, chapter 25
“He must learn that even the Dragon Reborn is flesh. If he goes to Tarmon Gai’don as he is, even his victory may be as dark as his defeat†Cadsuane to Sorilea, PoD, chapter
How could winning Tarmon Gai’don be nearly as dark as losing unless the Dragon Reborn was alive to make it so?
Second, he will go to Tar Valon as a begger and then go, or be brought against his will, which I think is more likely, to the Tower.
-Perrin’s dream.
“ Perrin thought it was Rand. He wore rags and a rough cloak, and a bandage covered his eyes.â€
-Egwene’s dream TSR,Ch11
“Rand in chains, and it was he who was screaming.â€
-Moridin’s sha’rah game
“The Fisher was always worked as a man, a bandage blinding his eyes and one hand pressed to his side, a few drops of blood dripping through his fingers. The reasons, like the source of the name, were lost in the mist of time. That troubled him sometimes, enraged him, what knowledge might be lost in the turnings of the Wheel, knowledge he needed, knowledge he had a right to. A right!
Slowly he set the Fisher back on the board. Slowly his fingers uncurled from around the cour'souvra. There was no need for destruction. Yet. Icy calm replaced rage in the blink of an eye. Blood and wine dripped from his gashed hand, unnoticed. Perhaps the Fisher did come from some remnant of a memory of Rand al'Thor, the shadow of a shadow. It did not matter. He realized he was laughing, and made no effort to stop. On the board, the Fisher stood waiting, but in the greater game, al'Thor moved already to his wishes. And soon, now. . . .It was very hard to lose a game when you played both sides of the board. Moridin laughed so hard that tears rolled down his face, but he was not aware of them.â€
PoD, Prologue.
Rand has something wrong with his eyes, and a wound in his side that’s always breaking open, so it’s safe to assume that Rand is the Fisher.
At the Tower, Egwene will be the Amyrlin and she will gentle him.
During Rand’s trip by Portal Stone, in one of his lives,
“Egwene, stern-faced in the stole of the Amyrlin Seat, lead the Aes Sedai who gentled him.†TGH, chapter 37
“A dozen Aes Sedai surrounded three men, two of them burly guards with the Flame of Tar Valon on their chests, tugging the chains in which the third stumbled as if dazed. Egwene jerked forward in her chair. The chained man was Rand. Eyes half-closed, head sagging, he seemed to be nearly asleep, moving only as the chains directed.
“This man,†Elaida proclaimed, “has named himself the Dragon Reborn. This man has channeled the One Power. There is only one penalty for this, known and recognized in every nation, but pronounced only here in Tar Valon, in the Hall of the Tower. I call upon the Amyrlin Seat to pronounce the sentence of gentling on this man.†TDR, during the third arch of Egwene’s test for the Accepted. Now, we know that Ter’angreal is somehow related to the Ter’angreal that allows the wearer to enter Tel’aran’rhiod. I think that it is quite possible that Egwene’s test for the Accepted, or at least the third part of it was somehow connected to reality instead of what it was for every other Novice who was tested. During the third Arch, she saw herself as the Amyrlin, with Beldiene as her Keeper. Beldiene is a young Dragonsworn Green. She saw Elaida as her main enemy in the Hall of the Tower, and she remembered something called “The Great Purge†where all the Black Ajah in the Tower were revealed, which is something that Seaine, Pevera Doesine, Saerin and Yukiri are working on right now.
Rand will most likely be gentled as a punishment for killing like, five, Aes Sedai, stilling three, and making the rest swear fealty to him, and who knows what else.
So, I think that at Tarmon Gai’don Rand will reseal the Bore with a circle of 72 Aes Sedai and Ash’aman, he will either be badly injured, [probably by the wound in his side breaking open] or else he will actually die and come back to life. Either way he will spill his blood all over Shayol Ghul and the Pit of Doom. He will be rescued by Elayne, Avaindha & Min, go to Tar Valon, and then be brought to the Tower and gentled by Egwene.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2007-07-06
That's a rather dismal view of Rand's end, although I'm not entirely against such an ending which has a ironic sadness to it. Rand, a feared male channeler, leads the charge to heal the Bore, defeats the Dark One, but is held to account for crimes against the White Tower, and Egwene, if she wants to do everything she has planned for the White Tower, to heal it, must gentle Rand. I hadn't considered this exact course of action. Thanks.
2
irerancincpkc: 2007-07-07
---Second, he will go to Tar Valon as a begger and then go, or be brought against his will, which I think is more likely, to the Tower.---
But why would it be as a beggar? He just won the Last Battle. You'd think they would be happy. And yes, it would almost have to be against his will.
---At the Tower, Egwene will be the Amyrlin and she will gentle him.---
As much as I can see Egwene doing this, I don't think it's going to happen. She mean and heartless enough to do it, but I don't think it will come to that. Rand has a lot of supporters in the White Tower; another rebellion could result from something like this. Egwene isn't stupid enough to risk that. And he only killed any Aes Sedai who meant harm to him. Since the taint is clean, there's no reason for him to be gentled. It would actually go against their laws, now, since he is not a danger to anyone.
I agree with you that Rand will survive, but I don't think it will happen this way. Interesting theory, though. I always put Rand meeting Egwene before the Last Battle, never after.
3
Ozymandias: 2007-07-09
The only possible way Egwene would gentle Rand is if she thought he'd break the world again, and since the Aes Sedai are getting increasing amounts of evidence to support that the Taint is gone from their Asha'man Warders, I think we can safely say, barring another backlash, Egwene won't gentle him for that.
And how exactly is a weakened White Tower going to battle through the Black Tower, hundreds of thousands of Aiel, the armies of Seanchan, and every nation on the planet to get to Rand?
Plus, the Aes Sedai Rand stilled were traitors to the Egwene's cause and therefore probably won't be held as worthy of avenging. They were tacit supporters of Elaida's rise, and therefore traitors to the true interests of the Tower.
4
JakOShadows: 2007-07-09
i do agree that this is possible, but it just doesn't make sense. As everyone else has been saying, he will have sealed the bore, and everyone should be rejoicing at that(even Aes Sedai in the white tower). gentling him after he just sealed the bore doesn't seem like a logical course of action to me.
5
ashen-shugar: 2007-07-11
i have heard several people mention that Rand will "reseal the BORE" but in what i have read regarding the "the never ending wheel of time" and I could be mistaken, but I believe that Jordan himself has stated that to fulfill the "Wheel of time" concept the BORE must not be mearly resealed but brought back to the "pre-BORE" state Meirin caused prior to the war of the shadow, when the concept of war was not known.
6
else: 2007-07-11
I don't like the idea of this as an ending but with all the prophecies quoted it is not impossible. Egwene would do anything to unite the White Tower and maybe she has to cope with a still powerful Elaida, who demands Rand's stilling. If Egwene agrees to do this, she could then quickly ship him off to Nynaeve, who could heal him while Egwene swears up and down that he is stilled forever. After all, in her test, Egwene made the point that she has not sworn the three oaths.
7
LordoftheWheel: 2007-07-12
I highly doubt Egwene will gentle him since
A. Saidin is now clean and they don't have normal reason of preventing another breaking.
B. People can heal gentling now.
8
JakOShadows: 2007-07-12
else:
that's a good point, but the question is would rand go along with that. because he is pretty much being used for her own personal gains at that point.
9
Davian93: 2007-07-12
The biggest thing that this theory has going for it is Egwene's stubborness and outright annoyingness. Other than that, its not very likely. Odds are that Rand will indeed die at Tarmon Gaidon. All the prophecies in his own words "more than imply" that it was neccessary for him to die at Tarmon Gaidon. That said, I suppose it is possible for him to survive in some way or fashion. If he does survive, he wouldn't likely go to Tar Valon as a beggar. For all we know, Tar Valon might not even be there if Dragonmount decides to erupt which has been foreshadowed throughout KoD by the sulpher smells in the vacinity of the city. Even if the city is there, there is no reason to believe that Rand would go there as a beggar and even if Egwene for some insane reason wanted to prosecute him for supposed crimes, the odds are that it wouldnt happen. First, there are all those AS that have sworn allegiance to Rand. Then there are the Aiel, his 3 wives (Elayne and Avi would put gut Egwene like a fish for even considering it) and of course Nynaeve who wouldnt allow it to happen.
It is important to remember that the worlds visited by the 3 rings in the Accepted test are not a firm reality but rather a reflection of the iniate's own fears based somewhat in fact. For example, Nynaeve is Queen of Malkier, something she both desires and fears and her advisor is "Sharina Sedai". In reality, Nynaeve cannot really be Queen of Malkier since the country is dead and gone and there is a woman named Sharina that is a strong channeler who might end up as her advisor someday if Malkier were reborn but its not likely. While these "visions" offer interesting clues to the user, they are not a definitive view of any real future.
10
Gandelail: 2007-07-13
I agree with Davian, I think that this is not a likely occurence. Should Rand make it through the last battle, there are plenty of people who will try to help him were this to happen. Short of the whole tower scouring the lands with their Asha'man warders and Cadsuane summoning some unknown power to help Egwene punish him, I think he's safe from this version of his fate.
Hmm... Nynaeve, the "Uncrowned" Queen of Malkier... an interesting version of events from her Accepted test, but... I don't think this helps the theory much.
:)
11
Catalyst: 2007-07-18
Bull-bull-bulls*** and nonsense and foolishness. He'll seal the Bore (or I think he will make an entirely new prison), the two Unhealing wounds cut off from their sources and so kill off each other. And he will live after the Last Battle. Resurrected, or Healed on the brink of death - we still will have to see. As for Egwene gentling him, I don't think she would do such a mistake. Myrelle Sedai, how did you forget the Black Tower so easily? Do you think they will allow the most powerful in their order to be tricked like that? After SAVING THE WORLD? Not bloody likely. I desperately hope you are really wrong about this, O Servant. Because if it happens, the fans of "The Wheel Of Time" books are not likely to let the blood disease kill author Robert Jordan. They will do it themselves. My sneerings if I accidently insulted anyone - if I did so, know that I meant it.
12
Marie Curie 7: 2007-07-25
Davian:
"It is important to remember that the worlds visited by the 3 rings in the Accepted test are not a firm reality but rather a reflection of the iniate's own fears based somewhat in fact. For example, Nynaeve is Queen of Malkier, something she both desires and fears and her advisor is "Sharina Sedai". In reality, Nynaeve cannot really be Queen of Malkier since the country is dead and gone and there is a woman named Sharina that is a strong channeler who might end up as her advisor someday if Malkier were reborn but its not likely. While these "visions" offer interesting clues to the user, they are not a definitive view of any real future."
I do agree that the things seen in the Accepted Test are only possible clues of future events and not certainties. However, Nynaeve's future as Queen of Malkier has been foreshadowed in other ways. One example was Nynaeve's startled reaction when she learned that Sharina is a novice with the rebels. And while it is true that the land of Malkier is dead, swallowed by the Blight, Nynaeve herself says that Malkier lives:
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TITLE: Knife of Dreams, CHAPTER: 20 - The Golden Crane
"Do you recognize this?" she said, fishing a leather cord from the neck of her dress.
His breath caught, and he stretched out a hand, brushed a finger across the heavy gold signet ring on the cord. Across the crane in flight. How had she come by this? Under the Light, how? "I recognize it," he told her, his voice suddenly hoarse.
"My name is Nynaeve ti al'Meara Mandragoran. The message I want sent is this. My husband rides from World's End toward Tarwin's Gap, toward Tarmon Gai'don. Will he ride alone?"
He trembled. He did not know whether he was laughing or crying. Perhaps both. She was his wife? "I will send your message, my Lady, but it has nothing to do with me. I am a merchant. Malkier is dead. Dead, I tell you."
The heat in her eyes seemed to intensify, and she gripped her long, thick braid with one hand. "Lan told me once that Malkier lives so long as one man wears the hadori in pledge that he will fight the Shadow, so long as one woman wears the ki'sain in pledge that she will send her sons to fight the Shadow. I wear the ki'sain. Master Aldragoran. My husband wears the hadori. So do you. Will Lan Mandragoran ride to the Last Battle alone?"
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You know... the Golden Crane flies for Tarmon Gai'don, and all that. :) Plus, after the Last Battle, presuming that the Dark One is resealed, it is likely that the Blight will recede, which opens the possibility that the lands that were once Malkier could be reclaimed.
13
Marie Curie 7: 2007-08-03
ashen-shugar:
"i have heard several people mention that Rand will "reseal the BORE" but in what i have read regarding the "the never ending wheel of time" and I could be mistaken, but I believe that Jordan himself has stated that to fulfill the "Wheel of time" concept the BORE must not be mearly resealed but brought back to the "pre-BORE" state Meirin caused prior to the war of the shadow, when the concept of war was not known."
Herid Fel says that at some point, the Bore must be restored to its original pre-drilled state; however, Fel doesn't necessarily believe that the Dragon Reborn can do it:
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TITLE: Lord of Chaos, CHAPTER: 18 - A Taste of Solitude
"What? Yes, exactly the point. It can't be the Last Battle. Even if the Dragon Reborn seals the Dark One's prison again as well as the Creator made it. Which I don't think he can do." He leaned forward and lowered his voice conspiratorially. "He isn't the Creator, you know, whatever they say in the streets. Still, it has to be sealed up again by somebody. The Wheel, you see."
"I don't see... " Rand trailed off.
"Yes, you do. You'd make a good student." Snatching his pipe out, Herid drew a circle in the air with the stem. "The Wheel of Time. Ages come and go and come again as the Wheel turns. All the catechism." Suddenly he stabbed a point on that imaginary wheel. "Here the Dark One's prison is whole. Here, they drilled a hole in it, and sealed it up again." He moved the bit of the pipe along the arc he had drawn. "Here we are. The seal's weakening. But that doesn’t matter, of course." The pipestem completed the circle. "When the Wheel turns back to here, back to where they drilled the hole in the first place, the Dark One's prison has to be whole again."
"Why? Maybe the next time they'll drill through the patch. Maybe that's how they could do it the last time - drill into what the Creator made, I mean - maybe they drilled the Bore through a patch and we just don't know."
Herid shook his head. For a moment he stared at his pipe, once more realizing it was unlit, and Rand thought he might have to recall him again, but instead Herid blinked and went on. "Someone had to make it sometime. For the first time, that is. Unless you think the Creator made the Dark One's prison with a hole and patch to begin." His eyebrows waggled at the suggestion. "No, it was whole in the beginning, and I think it will be whole again when the Third Age comes once more. Hmmm. I wonder if they called it the Third Age?" He hastily dipped a pen and scribbled a note in the margins of an open book. "Umph. No matter now. I'm not saying the Dragon Reborn will be the one to make it whole, not in this Age necessarily anyway, but it must be so before the Third Age comes again, and enough time passed since it was made whole - an Age, at least - that no one remembers the Dark One or his prison. No one remembers.Um. I wonder. . ." He peered at his notes and scratched his head, then seemed startled to find he used the hand holding the pen. There was a smudge of ink in his hair. "Any Age where seals weaken must remember the Dark One eventually, because they will have to face him and wall him up again." Sticking his pipe back between his teeth, he tried to make another note without dipping the pen.
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RJ also states the same idea in an interview question. From Thus Spake the Creator:
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Q: Mr. Jordan, it's fairly common knowledge that the Dark One was bound by the creator outside of the pattern at the moment of creation. Would it then be safe to assume, after concepts brought to light in the new release, that the world before the opening of the prison never knew true evil? If so, then was each age before the opening of the Age of Legends different facets of some utopia? As well, without major conflict between good and evil, what caused ages to pass? Thanks.
A: Given that time is cyclic, you must assume that there is a time when the prison that holds the Dark One is whole and unbroken. There is a time when a hole is drilled into that prison and it is thus open to that degree. And there is a time when the opening has been patched in a makeshift manner. But following this line, the cyclic nature of time means that we have at some time in the future inevitably a whole and unbroken prison again. Unless, of course, the Dark One breaks free, in which case all bets are off -- kick over the table and run for the window.
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So, all this implies that at some point along the Wheel, the prison has to be restored to its original undrilled state. It doesn't necessarily mean that it has to happen in the Third Age, though, or that Rand has to do it - just that it has to happen some time before the Second Age (the AoL) comes again.
14
Myrelle Sedai: 2007-08-15
davain--
The biggest thing that this theory has going for it is Egwene's stubborness and outright annoyingness. Other than that, its not very likely. Odds are that Rand will indeed die at Tarmon Gaidon. All the prophecies in his own words "more than imply" that it was neccessary for him to die at Tarmon Gaidon. That said, I suppose it is possible for him to survive in some way or fashion. If he does survive, he wouldn't likely go to Tar Valon as a beggar. For all we know, Tar Valon might not even be there if Dragonmount decides to erupt which has been foreshadowed throughout KoD by the sulpher smells in the vacinity of the city. Even if the city is there, there is no reason to believe that Rand would go there as a beggar and even if Egwene for some insane reason wanted to prosecute him for supposed crimes, the odds are that it wouldnt happen. First, there are all those AS that have sworn allegiance to Rand. Then there are the Aiel, his 3 wives (Elayne and Avi would put gut Egwene like a fish for even considering it) and of course Nynaeve who wouldnt allow it to happen.
It is important to remember that the worlds visited by the 3 rings in the Accepted test are not a firm reality but rather a reflection of the iniate's own fears based somewhat in fact. For example, Nynaeve is Queen of Malkier, something she both desires and fears and her advisor is "Sharina Sedai". In reality, Nynaeve cannot really be Queen of Malkier since the country is dead and gone and there is a woman named Sharina that is a strong channeler who might end up as her advisor someday if Malkier were reborn but its not likely. While these "visions" offer interesting clues to the user, they are not a definitive view of any real future.
i think it's possible that rand might go crazy, and that's why egwene would gentle him. as for egwene's accepted test, if it relected her fears, then why would she see things like the circle of 13 aes sedai and 13 myyrdreal? that was not a thing she knew about before.
about rand going to tar valon-- one thing i meant to put it, but forgot to, was a dream rand had near the beginning of teotw about going to tar valon.
15
BKVMC: 2007-08-31
going on pure speculation on my part but i think it is Feasible that after the last battle Rand will ask to be gentled not be forced to be gentled for one reason his children to be born from elayne. i think his fears of even the remotest chance of him hurting his children will drive him to do this.
16
Sampson: 2007-09-21
What about twice dawns the day?
I was thinking this was a theory on how the last battle would be fought and how the characters pulled off the win.
17
Richard: 2007-11-06
Interesting theory, one of the few I have read about the beggar related end, which is almost sure. Rand surviving has been fortelt, so that bit is out of question. The gentling take.... I like it, maybe he'll just burn out and then go into exhile?
However, I don't see the gentling bit in it after the battle. You mentioned the most important piece of info for any theory after the last battle. Nicolas Foretelling (not theory, or possible dream, a foretelling, which is open to interpretation but not discussions. Foretellings always come true). But don't really use its possibibilities. Logains glory is related to Rands situation, we know that from Egwens dream, he'll be a part of the tower, the AM would not allow for rand to be gentled. Besides the foretelling says: "he who IS dead yet lives" It is clear that he is dead and alive at the same time, probably indicating some kind of scheme.
"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance out the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."
I hold on MY interpretation that Rand will fake his death and end up as a beggar. But I do not realy see any evidence to his gentling or to the white-tower. Other than the AM (guardians) will balanced the servants (AS) suggesting a merge of the two.
18
smokinbrigand: 2007-12-05
Was there not a vision of three women and rand on a boat? Maybe He and his three wives will just leave. Starting a Life somewhere else so throngs won't come to worship or bother him? They also mention death cannot be healed I think nyneave will do it. Don't mind my spelling I was in a hurry.
19
ramblingambler: 2007-12-31
First off, I stumbled onto this site and have thoroughly enjoyed reading the theories put forth. This is my first post and I simply would like to make a point.
RJ never actually calls for Rand's death. The death could be that of Lews Therin living in Rand's head. My guess is that while sealing the bore, Rand will burn himself out, forcing Lews Therin out of his mind, Thus the "death" that has been prophesied. Also, Min's viewing regarding Rand's blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul does not mean outright that he will die there. It simply means that his blood will be spilled.
My guess, Rand is burned out while sealing the bore, the Lews Therin is "slain" and is no longer in Rand's mind, Rand leaves Shayol Ghul desperately wounded but alive and heads toward Tar Valon. With no power and no money, he arrives looking like a beggar and is brought before Egwene when he is recognized.
20
PhillyMerc: 2008-03-09
There are so many loose ends to tie up about TG and Rand, as well as all the other characters that the best way to approach in (in my opinion) is to break it down into segments... so here it goes.
Rand:
-It is not clear if he is to live or die after the last battle
-There are many viewings and prophecies concerning him but all are vague at best
-The viewings of Rand close to death and surrounded by three women (Min,Elayne,Aviendha) could very well be due to wounds recieved while fighting TG or it could be a very elaborate hoax in order to fake his death
-Stating that his blood is to cover the rocks of Shayol Ghul means nothign outside he will bleed... it does not portend death and I think everyone can agree that everyone will come out of TG with more than a few scratches
-As to resealing to bore, RJ has hinted that Rand and his followers might be able to completely seal off the DO in compliance with the Pattern reaching the point where there was no hole in the DO's prison
-fel states that he doesnt think that Rand is capable of sealing the DO's prison but he does state that someone wlll have to do it eventually.
-Here is a theory I have seen pop up more and more frequently over the past several months concerning how he could do it... It is clear that the True Power is something completely separate from the saidar and saidin but it is possible for channelers to touch it (so far the Forsaken are the only ones who can do it due to their link with the DO, however it carries a heavy price. It stands to reason that anyone who can channel (most likely they have to be VERY strong) can find a way to touch the TP.
-Could it be possible that Rand finds a way to touch the TP and use it to fully reseal the DO at Tarmon Gaidon? I feel that nothing short of the TP, saidar and saidin used together could bring such a task to completion.
-This theory opens up a bunch of avenues to debate about what will happen to Rand at TG. Drawing on the TP has a heavy price and Rand might very well burn himself out while using it (or cause some other personal catastrophe) because it will take monumental amounts of power to seal the prison. It is clear that the TP causes Saa to appear in the wielders eyes and eventhough the saa appear to be benign outside of being scary to behold... might the saa cause Rand to lose his eyes (Perrin's dream with Rand having a bandage wrapped around his eyes)
- Furthermore, if Rand is to burn himself out after TG, then it stands to reason that Lews Therin will either die off or find his final release of death. This could be considered a fulfillment of the prophecies of Rand dying in order to live. On the other hand, that prophecy could very well mean that Rand will surrender himself to Lews Therin's control at TG. Lews Therin outshines Rand in knowledge of the power and more and more he is fighting Rand for control of both body and the source. Rand might very well "die" by seceding control to Lews Therin in TG in order to survive the battle.
-All things considered RJ has made it clear that many of the prophecies, foretellings and viewings tend to turn out in a completely different manner than they way they are originally interepreted. Some of those predictions can be dependent on outside circumstances coming to be (or not happening as well). All that being said I would like to touch on some other characters and their roles in TG. I could go on and on about Rand but I do not want to create a post that is a book in itself (Although this one is shaping up to be a long one anyway)
Egwene:
-Many seem to think that she will gentle Rand after TG, but I highly doubt that. As was stated before in this thread, the ability to heal gentling has been discovered and so any attempts to gentle Rand would be downright futile.
-Egwene did see herself as Amyrlin and gentling Rand but those things she saw while passing through the rings were not DESTINED to happen. They were merely things that could come to pass. In fact, she has already become Amyrlin with the rebels but again I highly doubt she will gentle Rand.
-Rand very well might end up at the Tower after TG as a beggar or at least stripped of his power and possessions. He might head there for sanctuary after TG is done and his destiny is wrought
-Rand's viewings of other lives while using the portal stones were indeed "other lives" windows into what could have been or what IS on another plane of existence.
-I saw an interesting note about Tar Valon being destroyed due to an explosion of Dragonmount. Although I dont think Tar Valon with be destroyed, I do feel that an massive eruption will take place as a sign the last battle has commenced or ended.
Nynaeve:
-I saw someone mentioned her as the "Uncrowned Queen of Malkier. Hence, people have surmised that with the Shadow's defeat the Blight will recede and allow Malkier to be reclaimed, but I havent a rather simpler idea.
-Lan is the Uncrowned King of Malkier and he has taken Nynaeve as his wife. Therefore, she has become the "Uncrowned Queen" by default. There is no need to reclaim Malkier or see Lan rise to the throne because Nynaeve has already attained that title.
-I feel that she will play a pivotal role in TG and sealing the DO's prison. all of her abilities to heal and her discoveries make her a standout amongst the Aes Sedai and I am sure those abilities will come to play in the Final Battle and resealing the DO.
There are so many more characters and theories to touch on but I am going to cut this post short in order to collect some more thoughts on TG. As with everyone else's posts all my thoughts are merely conjecture (either well founded or extremely far fetched). I myself enterain everyone's thoughts and theories as possibilities because anything is possible and no one butthe late Robert Jordan and those closest to him know what is going to happen.
There is one thing I am convinced of... Rand will survive TG but a great many characters will die off. There are simply too many plot lines and characters to allow many to survive, as it would probably take another series of books to wrap up everyone's stories. That alone makes it clear to me that a good many of our loved and hated char's will meet their end in the last book (some before, during and after TG) The rest as they say "remains to be seen".
I look forward to anyone's thoughts on what I posted whether you agree with some things or find my rantings bordering on utter lunacy.
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Ozymandias: 2008-05-30
Just wanted to throw out an interesting factoid I stumbled across in reference to you talking about the Fisher King. That has nothing to do with Rand's blood on the rocks of the Shayol Ghul. The Fisher King is a well known figure from Arthurian legend. Its actually a cool story... but that particular moment isn't meant to draw a parallel between him dying and spilling his blood a Shayol Ghul, its meant to bring to mind the image of a wounded ruler, who is the guardian of all that is Good.
22
mckiemj: 2008-09-08
ok we are all thinking that Rand doesn't want to get gentled at the end. but isn't it possible that after all this is finished he has had more than his share of troubles, he's got lewis in his head; he has just saved the world (assumption). wouldnt you want to get some peace? he disguises himself as a beggar (got to be a few of them around after the mother of all battles) gets to tar valon, asks Egwene to gentle him, letting him live out the rest of his life in peace.
23
Fourth Age Historian: 2008-09-15
Not saying this will happen, but I have a thought to consider.
What if he is gentled BEFORE the last battle? Stupid, right? Not if Nynaeve heals him. He would then be stronger in the power than he was before...and he's already about the strongest. I also think he'd have a chance to get rid of the madness that way. They say that can be healed, both in TEOTW Prologue (Ishy can't do it, but knows it can be done) and at some later point that I'm forgetting.
Anyway, a tangentially related thing: If he can conjure a power-wrought sword, why not a power-wrought HAND to hold the sword? I don't think the hand thing is that big a deal. And his blindness? Maybe channeling blind is one of his nine impossible things.
24
Darkmoon: 2008-09-18
Considering that gentling can be healed(nowadays)... to gentle Rand would be kind of pointless. Also, that assumes that after everything Rand did not choose gentling himself…
I think that Rand will have a nice, and probably long, life after all is done.
Why? Because, Min's vision(I think it was Min's) stated that Rand will have 13(or 11? over ten anyhow) children. Elayne has two on the way. Another of Min’s vision said that Aviendha will give Rand 4(?) at once, which probably will not happen till after Tarmon Gai'don. It still leaves half a dozen children to go… it will probably take Rand at least a couple years to fulfill this particular prophecy.
Also, it would be Rand as himself doing all that… I doubt Lews could manage enough sanity and feeling to make love to someone who is not Ilyena.
25
Darkmoon: 2008-09-18
Considering that gentling can be healed(nowadays)... to gentle Rand would be kind of pointless. Also, that assumes that after everything Rand did not choose gentling himself…
I think that Rand will have a nice, and probably long, life after all is done.
Why? Because, Min's vision(I think it was Min's) stated that Rand will have 13(or 11? over ten anyhow) children. Elayne has two on the way. Another of Min’s vision said that Aviendha will give Rand 4(?) at once, which probably will not happen till after Tarmon Gai'don. It still leaves half a dozen children to go… it will probably take Rand at least a couple years to fulfill this particular prophecy.
Also, it would be Rand as himself doing all that… I doubt Lews could manage enough sanity and feeling to make love to someone who is not Ilyena.
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terez: 2008-09-22
Not sure where you got that from, Darkmoon, but Min had no such viewing. And Rand and Aviendha will be seeing each other in Arad Doman, so there's plenty of time for her to get pregnant. Oh, and Rand and Lews Therin are the same person, whether or not Rand realizes it. :)
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Ozymandias: 2008-09-25
terez... are you crazy? You don't remember that viewing! Darkmoon didn't even get it right. Rand is going to have FIFTY SEVEN babies!!!!!!! By the time he's done with those three, there'll be enough room to twirl a cane.
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terez: 2008-10-04
Ozy, stop muddying up the waters. :p
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Ashaman: 2009-02-15
i agree that rand will be gentled by egwene,but not after Tarmon Gaidon but before it or during the batlle.they shall keep nynaeve near to heal him again.
the reason for gentling him and then healing him is that once you are stilled the efects of channeling vanish(like the ageless face of Aes sedai, which turns normal after the stilling and does not return,at least for some time after being healed)
Rand is suffering from effects of chanelling saidin, most prominently when he cannot seize saidin without going dizzy. if he is stilled and the healed he should be good as new.
30
MatOdin: 2009-10-28
Why on earth would Egwene gentle Rand.
a) it would be to absolutely no purpose, Rand adn Nynaeve having cleansed Saidin, but
b) Rand just won bloody Tarmon Gai'din and,
c)It would probably break the white tower again. On efaction protesting injustice, the other praising her decision, so any way you look at it, it would be a foolish decision on the half of Egwene.
31
shinerfan: 2009-11-27
There is a pretty popular theory that Rand might somehow end up in Moridin's body. If so, where does Moridin go? Into the bore, somewhere outside of the pattern, maybe into dreamworld, maybe cease to exist, or, maybe into Rand's crippled, blind body? Aah, how would Egwene have known this in the dream ter'? Just a thought, but could it have been Moridin she was passing sentence on?
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cantstandnynaeve: 2010-04-15
Just an idle thought while I am in the idst of my re-read and trying not to work at work. The ideas of Rand being gentled to cure madness issues are interesting. I have not made it to Book 12 yet, but Rand will probably hit the beggar status before TLB. What if he is dragged before Elaida who gentles him. This would pave the way for Egwene's full ascension, and the new Tower would see him healed. The Tower would then be cemented to Rand, and all would be in preparation for TLB. And, more prophesies fulfilled along the way.
