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he third voice is...
by Anubis: 2003-07-26 | 3.67 out of 10 (6 votes)
Previous Categories: Who is the other person in Rand's head?
TITLE: Crown of Swords, CHAPTER: 33 - A Bath
"Rand, you should study what they're like before you—" "The viewings?" She folded her arms and frowned up at him through her lashes. She chewed her lip and frowned at the door. She shook her head and muttered under her breath. At last she said, "There is only one, really. I was exaggerating. I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and...." Her mouth tightened worriedly, and she went on in a very small voice. "I don't know what it means, Rand, except that one of you dies, and one doesn't. I—Why are you grinning? This isn't a joke, Rand. I do not know which of you dies."
What is going to eventually happen, is that rand and lews therin will merge and there will only be the third. rand will truly become the dragon reborn. He will accept that the lews therin life is over. lews therin will "die". Rand will be incorporated into dragon, and will probably live on and be the better for accepting his past life.
Comments
Tamyrlin: 2003-08-01
I understand the mixing of that viewing with the idea of a third voice, but currently, the third voice sounds just as independent as Lews Therin's started; an independent thought that Rand's personality didn't come up with, memories that Rand never lived. Will the final Rand, the third person he becomes, in your theory, have access to the memories of previous dragons, or will he revert back to his own memory?
Anubis: 2003-08-01
I believe that the third will have lews therins memories, along with rands, but will have gotten past rands internal conflict. he will accept that lews therin died 5000 years or whatnot ago and will not obsess over parts of lews therins life that can no longer be changed.
ty fer the quote btw.
golem22: 2003-08-01
I have a better theory the third voice is ME HAHAHAHAHA DO YOU HEAR ME ITS MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! KILL KILL KILL KILL KILL KILLLL THEM ALLLL!
Anyways. Its obviously another incarnation of the dragon from b4 LTT. There is some evidence that i think supports this. LTT seems more aware of the other than rand i think that this is because the other is closer in time to LTT.
Anubis: 2003-08-02
really now? present your evidence then. and the fact that rand is dominant while lews therin and dragon exist mostly in the subconscious would also account for them being more aware of eachother.
Naboo: 2003-08-03
Well..... I don't know about most other people but I think that there is no "third voice" in Rand's head...(sorry if im wrong)....and just so if there is can someone post the quote sugggesting this. I believe that Rand's head is cluttered up anyway...what with LTT, Alanna(?), Elayne+Aviendha+Min....dude thats one mixed up head. That is one reason I dont feel there is any place for more stuff in there. Additionally in my 4 reads of the series i dont believe i've ever encountered this third voice. So there..i think its a good try by Anubis(?) but finally its all baloney.!!!!
Anubis: 2003-08-03
lotsa people think that the third voice is a first age incarnation... but i dont really buy it. for one... why? we done even know if there was a first age dragon.. and i doubt there was seeing as the DO was sealed untill the AOLers sprung him from his cell. also the third vioce to me sounds smarter then rand and more sane then lews therin. but thats just me...
Rhodric: 2003-08-03
the leveler:
** I think the 3rd voice is the first age incarnation.**
just brief questions:
do we know that the dragon is born in every age? perhaps the dragon's rebirth and subsequent death heralds the end of an age. perhaps not.
i think the voice is maybe a previous dragon (not necessarily the 1st age form). the 3 should merge with each other: Rand should accept the voices as previous incarnations of HIMSELF. he seems to think that they are separate beings when all he is doing is remembering things he's done in previous lives (like birgitte).
but rand hasn't accepted this yet. (also i am rambling). ;}
Flinn: 2003-08-04
The merged dragon is making a lot of sense to me. It seems to me that if there was a 1age dragons voice it would be in LTT's mind and only he would be able to hear it. and if it is the 1age dragon, where all all the dragons from the ages before that?
Anubis: 2003-08-06
about the dragon.
the dragon is spun out, like everything else, when he is needed. now the dragon is not the hearald of the ending of an age (theres twins or somthing, it was mentioned that there was a specific herald of age ending) it just tends to work out that way. Hard to not end an age when you have a huge cataclysmic battle.
now anyways. we can be pretty sure that the dark one was not free in the first age. perhaps it would be best to ask robert jordan, but i think we can assume no, for the simple reason that noone in the age of legends had ever heard of the dark one.
with no dark one, there is no first age dragon. no need. simple as that.
Rhodric: 2003-08-07
i don't like the idea that the dragon is born in every age, i just thought i'd ask (many others seem to think there is a dragon in every age, and i run with it - sheep syndrome).
there's twins who herald the end/beginning of ages? who what ?
if we assume that the need of the pattern is always a time of danger, then yes the dragon was not needed in the 1st age. but perhaps there was some other need - i posted a theory about the dragon being the first channeller ever but it never made it.(Tam?) maybe the need was that the human race was soon to revert to animal-hood (wolfbrothers and other animalsiblings). and so the pattern spun out a channelling to revive civilization.
well i've just contradicted myself. "well i don't believe this but here's a theory about it anyway." meh...
Callandor: 2003-08-07
**TITLE: Crown of Swords,CHAPTER: 21 - Swovan Night
"There was no hope, with Seanchan to the west and Whitecloaks to the east, no hope and only one chance, so he raised the curled Horn and blew, not really knowing what to expect. The sound came golden as the Horn, so sweet he did not know whether to laugh or cry. It echoed, and the earth and heavens seemed to sing. While that one pure note hung in the air, a fog began to rise, appearing from nowhere, thin wisps, thickening, billowing higher, until all was obscured as if clouds covered the land. And down the clouds they rode, as though down a mountainside, the dead heroes of legend, bound to be called back by the Horn of Valere. Artur Hawkwing himself led, tall and hook-nosed, and behind came the rest, little more than a hundred. So few, but all those the Wheel would spin out again and again to guide the Pattern, to make legend and myth. Mikel of the Pure Heart, and Shivan the Hunter behind his black mask. He was said to herald the end of Ages, the destruction of what had been and the birth of what was to be, he and his sister Calian, called the Chooser, who rode red-masked at his side. Amaresu, with the Sword of the Sun glowing in her hands, and Paedrig, the golden-tongued peacemaker, and there, carrying the silver bow with which she never missed...."
Shivan is the herald that ends Ages, but he is never without his sister Calian... but cant find that quote.
I believe that the Dragon is born at least every Age, whether its for the Last Battle, or simply to be the first Channeler or whatever would require the strongest ta'veren ever.
juitzhead: 2003-08-07
the dragon is not born every age. time is circular and as Herid Fel put it, there must be some time between the ages where the DO is sealed to the age where the bore and the DO are no longer remembered, and the DO's prison is bored again.
The Dragon is the human surrogate chosen to fight the DO's human surrogate.
Cant happen every age.
Callandor: 2003-08-08
Post- ACOS interview:
**Q: "Is this soul [the Dragon] born in any other age, or only at the advent and (theoretically, of course) the closing of the Third Age, as The Dragon/TDR?"
A: This soul is one of the Heroes, and bound to the Wheel, spun out as the Pattern wills. "It" is born in other ages, but in a non-Dragon incarnation, to suit the pattern of that Age.**
The Dragon is born every Age, just not always in the Dragon persona.
Lan: 2003-12-14
Perhaps this is something that has been thought of and discarded, but I think that the Fisher is the next incarnation of the Dragon. I think in the last Age of the Wheel(the seventh I think) the Fisher will be born and will finally and totally reseal the DOs prison, followed by the return of the first Age where they forget about the DO.... etc.
Fatum Turbatus: 2004-05-03
While reading CoT, my theory on who, or what, the third voice in Rand's head is changed a little bit. As the WOT time turns, ages come and go, and all that has come to pass will be repeated. This is a basic concept that must be understood in order to comprehend the WOT series. Now, this concept indicates that, just as Rand is not the first Dragon, neither could Lews Therin Telamon be the first, either. So if Rand is hearing the voice of the previous Dragon in his head, it is safe to assume that Lews Therin also heard the voice of the which came before him. As the Wheel turns, this could be played out as a never-ending cycle. The Dragon who follows after Rand could hear Rand's voice in his head and just a faint echo of Lews Therin's.
Aendur: 2004-11-20
I agree with Fatum. In the beginning of TEotW, Ishy said something to the effect of: "I chose my name, but yours was thrust upon you by the people." If there was no prior Dragon in folklore at the least (possibly even propecies), how would they know that was what he was to be called? Therefore, there must have been a Dragon within the last Age, since no one really remembers anything even vaguely from more than an Age before (and I theorize that the DO was sealed somewhere in the MIDDLE of Age 1, so there is both time to forget him, and so people have somewhere to advance to. The AoL being (as far as we know) the pinnacle of human achievement, the problems that knock humanity back to subsistance (e.g. Breaking, similar calamities) must have been farely recent or it would have lasted longer, been more stagnant/figured out stuff like Warder bonds, etc.)
Therefore, the third voice is Herid Fel's original bore-sealer (unless, of course, the bore really WAS made by the Creator with a patch on it ^_-).
On a side note, the civilization the proto-Dragon (pre-LTT) came from may have made the Stones (oh, gosh, can't remember the full name: ya know though, the ones he used to travel in tGH and tSR) which are claimed to have pre-dated AoL, and been a mystery to them too.
terez: 2004-12-29
It has always seemed fairly obvious to me that the "third person" is the incarnation previous to LTT. Does Rand actually hear this guy's voice in his head? The only references I can remember are LTT's comment on the "other one" and, if I remember correctly, Rand had some sort of vision of him in a mirror or something. Lews Therin is the one who hears the voice. He also made a comment in LOC about how the dead are never quiet. The voice probably didn't show up in LTT's head until it was needed( ? ), sometime after the drilling of the Bore. It's not a product of the taint because the taint has been cleansed and LTT is still in Rand's head. It was probably the last actual "Dragon", from at least as far back as the 7th age, for if a "Dragon" was recent enough to be remembered, wouldn't LTT have been the "Dragon Reborn" as well? I also am apprehensive about the effect the voice has had on Rand. It doesn't seem to help any. Rand, in the beginning, could subconsciously do things that he hadn't been taught, and once done, remember how to do them. Why the need for a conscious mental conversation with LTT? Also , LTT has made some pretty crazy suggestions to Rand about what to do - break the seals, kill Taim, kill Cadsuane, kill them all. Did LTT's voice make crazy suggestions too? Did he take that advice? Is that why everything turned out so badly? LTT tells Rand in CoT "trust no one, not even me". Not even yourself? LTT is Rand, after all. That is why he must die. I don't think Rand can handle the dichotomy much longer. Hopefully Alivia will help "him" die, so that Rand may live in peace, like LTT lived in peace before the Drilling.
Llewellyn Reborn: 2004-12-30
It is my thought that there have been/will be three Dragons LTT, Rand, and #3 so the the voice/Dragon is he who comes AFTER Rand and BEFORE LTT. since time is a wheel it makes since that if they both hear him and not 3 or 4 more it is logical that there have been/will be only 3 Dragons through out the turning of the wheel So Rands future is LTTs past and ... Rand is the past of the next one and LTT is his future Rand is his past and he #3 is LTTs past and Rand is LTTs future.....
As I have not had the time to read ALL of the other theories this one may have already been placed here.....
RudeHero: 2005-05-20
NO!!
Sorry, first post but i do not think there is a 3rd dragon inside Rands head. First of all, if the wheel is all about balance and what not and if the dark one was to be imprisoned over and over again. wouldnt there be 4? I mean.. LTT and Rand thats 2, LTT and his previous dragon dude is 3. what about the one to come after rand? wouldnt it make sence fore them to be linked as well then?
El Bogarto: 2005-05-20
I agree with the idea that the 'third voice' is the Dragon before LTT.
I've always wondered why I rarely see someone cite Sammael's POV, where he thinks that Lews Therin was the rebirth of a previous soul who fought the shadow.
“Thoughts he had forced himself to dismiss came oozing back. Al'Thor was not Lews Therin, but al'Thor was Lews Therin's soul reborn, as Lews Therin himself had been the rebirth of that soul. Sammael was neither philosopher nor theologian, yet Ishamael had been both, and he claimed to have devined secrets hidden in that fact.”
Of _that_ soul, note the emphasis. Pretty darned specific.
Ol' Sammy was one the Generals for the Light before his conversion – and he was hardly stupid (cocky does not equal stupid).
Sammy acknowledges in that passage (indirectly) that Ishamael was also of the position that Lews was specifically a reborn soul - my candidate for the “Third Man”.
Personally, I think that both Lews, and later on, the Stranger, are past life leakage viewed askew, thanks to the taint. I think the memories are real – just given ‘life' due to Rand's insanity. Multiple personality disorder due to disassociation!
dedoublya: 2005-05-20
I like the idea of it tying in with Min's vision. Rand's explanation of it just seems too simple. And Min for one, doesn't really buy it, does she?
JakOShadows: 2005-05-21
Rudehero:
I don't think that he has to hear the future voice. Rather, I think it is based on need. Why would the future dragon have an experience that help the Rand? There would be no experiences for him to draw on. But I do agree about the previous dragon before ltt.
Heron: 2005-05-22
Terez:
*It's not a product of the taint because the taint has been cleansed and LTT is still in Rand's head.*
When a male channeler was gentled before the taint was cleansed, he was left as sane or insane as he was before he was gentled. Being cut off from the taint (through severing or destruction of the taint) does not undo its effects. However, I agree, LTT is not an effect of the taint. If I remember correctly (can't find the quote) Asmodean recognised some of his mannerisms. Also, his otherwise inexplicable knowledge of [Title: The Fires of Heaven, CHAPTER- 52: Choices. About a third of the way down page 629, hardcover.] "Spirit woven so with Fire and Earth. There." to cut an unseen flow comes from... the taint? No. There are other examples, but that one fits best, it being a clearly ordered thought.
Callandor: 2005-05-22
**When a male channeler was gentled before the taint was cleansed, he was left as sane or insane as he was before he was gentled. Being cut off from the taint (through severing or destruction of the taint) does not undo its effects. However, I agree, LTT is not an effect of the taint. If I remember correctly (can't find the quote) Asmodean recognised some of his mannerisms. Also, his otherwise inexplicable knowledge of [Title: The Fires of Heaven, CHAPTER- 52: Choices. About a third of the way down page 629, hardcover.] "Spirit woven so with Fire and Earth. There." to cut an unseen flow comes from... the taint? No. There are other examples, but that one fits best, it being a clearly ordered thought.**
The idea is that the taint broke the barrier between past and present lives, and Lews Therin's memories drifted into Rand's and combined with simple stress, and taint madness (something quite seperate from taint barrier deterioration effects), created an alternate presence in Rand's mind which is Lews Therin. Because there are ~real~ past memories in Rand's mind, he has ~real~ knowledge of the things that happened: like the destruction of cities in the AoL, memories of Ileyna, the Forsaken, channeling weaves, simple childhood memories, etc.
It's not completely the taint that has done this, and it's not like it created Lews Therin out from nowhere. There was a real memory backbone to it, and the taint merely took that to make Rand's own personal madness: Lews Therin's voice.
The third man, dunno. Right now I really lean toward a previous Dragon, but I'm really not in any camp per say.
jain: 2005-06-03
Could the third voice possibly be someone who was born to be the dragon, but killed before he fulfilled the prophecies? Someone born after Lews Terrin died, like (oh what was his name?) the famous one born in Far Maddening?
William Seeker: 2005-08-20
The voice is the voice Lews Therin had in his head when he was alive. You know the guy from the first age. It only makes sense that Lews Therin would have been aware of the Dragon before him too.
Callandor: 2005-08-21
**It only makes sense that Lews Therin would have been aware of the Dragon before him too.**
Why? Lews Therin's appearance and growth in Rand's head seems directly linked to the amount of saidin that Rand channels, bringing the amount of taint into him. There was no taint in the Age of Legends (till the very end of it), so how would Lews Therin have the First Age Dragon in his head?
Shivan the Hunter: 2005-08-22
I haven't been completely convinced that Lews Therin is a result of the taint, but I had the thought that maybe the third voice is actually the one which is a result of the taint. Cadsuane states that most male channelers begin to hear voices, but none of them know things that came before they were born or demonstrate any form of AoL knowledge or skills.
So what if Lews Therin isn't a result of the taint, if not, then it stands to reason that the third voice is the one which is taint induced? Rand hasn't actually heard the voice yet, which holds with the fact that Rand seems to be holding onto his sanity rather well so far. Lews Therin is insane and already occupies Rand's subconcious so that may be why he knows of the third voice in Rand's head.
brother of Battles: 2005-08-22
I think the third voice was the voice LTT was hearing when he was crazy. Not a previous Dragon but just a voice LTT made up when he went insane. That is why, to my knowledge anyway, Rand has never heard him. LTT always makes the comment on the third voice, Rand only comments about hearing LTT. There was other Dragon incarnations, but it would have been Ages past. There is only need for a dragon if there is a Tarmon Gai'don to fight. The Dragon's soul is reborn whenever the pattern needs to fix itself. However, that incarnation is not always as the dragon. As Hawkwing said "I remember meny times fighting beside you and against you."(Not a direct quote) Unless either Hawkwing or the Dragon was a DF, then why would they fight each other? The "Dragon Soul" is reborn every age, but the Dragon is only there to fight the Shadow. As it was in ages past, it will be in Ages to come.
Callandor: 2005-08-23
**Unless either Hawkwing or the Dragon was a DF, then why would they fight each other?**
Are all Whitecloaks Darkfriends? People don't have to be Darkfriends to fight against each other. Heck, not everyone supports Rand -- some of his detractorts are in fact Darkfriends (so are some of his "supporters"), but just because they go against him, doesn't mean they are automatically Darkfriends.
Fizz: 2006-10-27
**It only makes sense that Lews Therin would have been aware of the Dragon before him too.**
***Why? Lews Therin's appearance and growth in Rand's head seems directly linked to the amount of saidin that Rand channels, bringing the amount of taint into him. There was no taint in the Age of Legends (till the very end of it), so how would Lews Therin have the First Age Dragon in his head?***
Well, one thought comes to mind: The taint is not responsible. That theory breaks down somewhat when you notice that LTT is still becoming stronger in Rand's head even after Rand has cleansed saidin. Of course, you could say that the damage was already done and that LTT somehow broke the rest of the way through on his own or through some other means, but that in itself is a theory. A theory to explain another theory which explains the theory you are discussing is not very good evidence. It is necessary sometimes on this site, but the lack of evidence one way or another makes it a hard sell.
One thing that strikes me as odd about the voice, however, is that Rand assumes that it is LTT speaking, and the only difference he notes is that he seemed "almost sane" or some similar comparison to the ravings of the voice he knows as LTT. I find it hard to accept that it could be a completely different third voice and Rand not notice the difference between it and LTT. Even madmen have moments of lucidity. Perhaps that is all that is happening, on Rand's end at least. LTT seems to be aware of both Rand and another voice. He mentions Rand and the "other", so to him, there are two voices in his head. Which brings up another point: where exactly does LTT think he is? He obviously doesn't think he's dead, since he thinks that Rand is a madman in his head. He obviously can't be alive, since he killed himself at the end of the AOL. Is it just because he died mad and can't really grasp that he is dead? Or is there something more important about the voice being there in the first place that we don't know yet?
Anyway, I think a major argument against the whole theory of barriers between past lives is Birgitte. Now, we all know that while the soul is in T'A'R, it can remember all of the previous lives that it lives. And, according to the barrier theory, a barrier is put into place at the moment of the soul's rebirth. Ok, so far so good. Now Birgitte gets forcefully ripped out of T'A'R into the real world, effectively being born into the real world. Since this was not a natural birth, I could buy the argument that the barrier would not have been put into place since she was not truly "reborn". So why, then, is she slowly losing her memories of past lives? Is a barrier being slowly erected between her past lives? And if so, how can you explain "rebirths" such as the ones that Ishy, Lanfear, and the other Chosen have had? Their rebirths, or "transmigrations" have very similar attributes to Birgitte's ripping-out from T'A'R (which, I assume, is from where the DO reclaims the souls of defeated Chosen), so why do their past lives not fade away as Birgittes are doing? Do their souls not hold the same boundaries as any other person? And how could Ishy remember fighting against the Dragon so long ago, as he makes it seem in the conclusion to EotW? Or is he really remembering anything? Perhaps. We may never know.
Fizz: 2006-10-27
**It only makes sense that Lews Therin would have been aware of the Dragon before him too.**
***Why? Lews Therin's appearance and growth in Rand's head seems directly linked to the amount of saidin that Rand channels, bringing the amount of taint into him. There was no taint in the Age of Legends (till the very end of it), so how would Lews Therin have the First Age Dragon in his head?***
Well, one thought comes to mind: The taint is not responsible. That theory breaks down somewhat when you notice that LTT is still becoming stronger in Rand's head even after Rand has cleansed saidin. Of course, you could say that the damage was already done and that LTT somehow broke the rest of the way through on his own or through some other means, but that in itself is a theory. A theory to explain another theory which explains the theory you are discussing is not very good evidence. It is necessary sometimes on this site, but the lack of evidence one way or another makes it a hard sell.
One thing that strikes me as odd about the voice, however, is that Rand assumes that it is LTT speaking, and the only difference he notes is that he seemed "almost sane" or some similar comparison to the ravings of the voice he knows as LTT. I find it hard to accept that it could be a completely different third voice and Rand not notice the difference between it and LTT. Even madmen have moments of lucidity. Perhaps that is all that is happening, on Rand's end at least. LTT seems to be aware of both Rand and another voice. He mentions Rand and the "other", so to him, there are two voices in his head. Which brings up another point: where exactly does LTT think he is? He obviously doesn't think he's dead, since he thinks that Rand is a madman in his head. He obviously can't be alive, since he killed himself at the end of the AOL. Is it just because he died mad and can't really grasp that he is dead? Or is there something more important about the voice being there in the first place that we don't know yet?
Anyway, I think a major argument against the whole theory of barriers between past lives is Birgitte. Now, we all know that while the soul is in T'A'R, it can remember all of the previous lives that it lives. And, according to the barrier theory, a barrier is put into place at the moment of the soul's rebirth. Ok, so far so good. Now Birgitte gets forcefully ripped out of T'A'R into the real world, effectively being born into the real world. Since this was not a natural birth, I could buy the argument that the barrier would not have been put into place since she was not truly "reborn". So why, then, is she slowly losing her memories of past lives? Is a barrier being slowly erected between her past lives? And if so, how can you explain "rebirths" such as the ones that Ishy, Lanfear, and the other Chosen have had? Their rebirths, or "transmigrations" have very similar attributes to Birgitte's ripping-out from T'A'R (which, I assume, is from where the DO reclaims the souls of defeated Chosen), so why do their past lives not fade away as Birgittes are doing? Do their souls not hold the same boundaries as any other person? And how could Ishy remember fighting against the Dragon so long ago, as he makes it seem in the conclusion to EotW? Or is he really remembering anything? Perhaps. We may never know.
Callandor: 2006-10-27
**Well, one thought comes to mind: The taint is not responsible. That theory breaks down somewhat when you notice that LTT is still becoming stronger in Rand's head even after Rand has cleansed saidin.**
Evidence? The only thing I can think of that you're refering to is this:
**TITLE: Crossroads of Twilight
CHAPTER: 24 - A Strengthening Storm
In that moment of weakness, the dead man reached for saidin. Rand could feel him clawing for it greedily. Was it harder than it had been to push him away? In some ways, Lews Therin seemed more solidly part of him since Shadar Logoth. It did not matter. He had only so far left to go before he could die. He just had to last that far. Drawing a deep breath, he ignored the lingering traces of sickness in his belly and strode into the sitting room to the crash of thunder.**
Which does not show that Lews Therin is getting stronger due to something other than the taint. I mean, look at the event that Rand is using for a benchmark: the Cleansing. Of course there would be some impact of that because of that event. The damage is done due to the breakdown of the barrier -- that's due to the taint. That would make Lews Therin "stronger" in a way: more memories coming into Rand. But when is Rand going to comment on this? Of course after the Cleansing -- he was fixated on the Cleansing at the time and passed out afterwards. This is the first time we saw him after the Cleansing.
We'd need evidence of Lews Therin getting stronger in Knife of Dreams -- which there is none that I've been made aware of.
**Which brings up another point: where exactly does LTT think he is?**
Being a construct, he thinks he's wherever Rand thinks he should be.
**So why, then, is she slowly losing her memories of past lives? Is a barrier being slowly erected between her past lives? And if so, how can you explain "rebirths" such as the ones that Ishy, Lanfear, and the other Chosen have had?**
The common answer is similar to storage. Birgitte's head can only have so many memories, so she loses the way earlier memories first.
And the way to explain the Forsaken is quite simple: they're not "reborn." They're transmigrated. They don't have any barrier put in place. The barrier is put into place when a person is reborn -- which is via the Wheel. The Forsaken that have been transmigrated have not.
The memories go back to the issue of storage again. From Birgitte, Mat, Rand, and the Forsaken we see that people can have memories from not their own lives. There's some room for "storage" of those memories in their lives. It's not as if in just some random person's life that it would be they get a memory not their own, and they lose one of their own.
But with Birgitte it just seems to be that she's far exceeded that "capacity" (however large it is), while the other cases haven't (and most likely never will).
**And how could Ishy remember fighting against the Dragon so long ago, as he makes it seem in the conclusion to EotW?**
Easy answer is that he's actually not. He's simply deduced the greater theme of the world: the conflict via champions with the Light and Shadow. He sees the Dragon as the champion of the Light, and himself as the champion of the Shadow. It's not too hard to deduce (especially with Ishamael's arrogance added in) that they've had the same thing throughout time.
KaetySedai: 2006-10-29
I think you might be right about the third voice, but then, where's the dragon from the first age? Or is the third voice a dragon from the fourth age?
banner general1: 2007-01-13
I think it is Morridin, who didnt want Rand dead, so saved him from Sammael and when their balefire touched it created a link between them. When the other man channeled his balefire Rand couldnt sense saidin or see the weave, but it was there, and morridin is the only one who can touch the TRUE source now so he is the only one who could have done this. The touching balefire created a link between morridin and Rand.
terez: 2007-01-14
I think you might be right about the third voice, but then, where's the dragon from the first age? Or is the third voice a dragon from the fourth age?
The "other one" is not actually a voice, but merely a presence, and a face - and yes, it is Moridin, which makes the questions about the other Dragons irrelevant, really. Their memories are a part of Rand's soul, but he does not have access to them during his incarnation.
Catalyst: 2007-01-15
And how the Hell can there be so many Dragons? Yes, Rand al'Thor is the Dragon Reborn, Lews Therin Telamon is the Dragon. The Prophecies say that HIS blood will be shed on Shayol Ghul. But who will it be? The Dragon Reborn, or the Dragon? I suppose that at some point Rand and Lews Therin will dismerge. But then, you need a link with someone else in order to place there the second soul. Who is a better candidate for this than Moridin?
In case I am proven right (it will be known after three years :( and a lot of impatience), I think the pain given in the dismerging will be enough to Heal Lews Therin's madness. And his blood shall be spilled on the rocks of Shayol Ghul. Rand is gonna f*** off after the Last Battle and he will live about 1000 years with his very big, very happy family :)
Davian93: 2007-01-15
**** And how the Hell can there be so many Dragons? Yes, Rand al'Thor is the Dragon Reborn, Lews Therin Telamon is the Dragon. The Prophecies say that HIS blood will be shed on Shayol Ghul. But who will it be? The Dragon Reborn, or the Dragon? I suppose that at some point Rand and Lews Therin will dismerge. But then, you need a link with someone else in order to place there the second soul. Who is a better candidate for this than Moridin?****
The major problem with this theory of dismerging is there is but one body no matter how many personalities exist in Rand's head. The Dragon's blood is the blood from Rand's body, not some possible body that doesn't exist at this point for the LTT personality to inhabit.
Kallaes: 2009-07-09
As a few others have noted here, there is not third voice in Rand’s head. The “other one” is a passing reference made by Lews Therin but nothing indicates it is a voice heard either by Rand or by the 2nd Age Lews Therin Telamon. Neither is there anything to say that the “other one” is the hazy face that Rand begins to see. A common desire for them to be the same is not proof.
Lews Therin expresses a familiarity with the “other one” that he would not have for Moridin unless he recognized him despite his new body. I always find that Lews Therin thinks of the mysterious third person in a way that indicates the person existed at some point between him and Rand. Another individual that Lews Therin was aware of the same way he is aware of Rand al’Thor. I believe this person is Guaire Amalason, the Second Dragon.
Nowhere is it stated that someone tied to the Horn like Rand can only be reborn once per Age. On the contrary, Birgitte refers to numerous lives during the Third Age alone. As noted elsewhere, souls or heroes are spun out when the Wheel requires one. Rand, while he is titled the Dragon Reborn, can also be called the 3rd Dragon. Wheel of Time history refers to Guaire Amalason, and his overthrow, as the War of the Second Dragon. This also gives meaning to statements made by Hawkwing prior to Falme in “The Great Hunt”. Hawking is talking about having opposed Rand as often as he supported him. He indicates there were a number of instances. I believe one of Hawkwing’s most resent, and most noted, oppositions to the Dragon’s soul is his defeat of Guaire Amalason, the action that began Hawkwing’s rise to power. The Wheel used the Dragon’s soul as the catalyst to elevate Hawkwing. While a living Hawkwing would not recognize Lews Therin’s soul, Hawkwing’s immortal soul would remember. Amalason is referred to a false Dragon because he claimed to be the Dragon Reborn when he was not. That does not mean he was not actually an incarnation of the Dragon. He just wasn’t the prophesied incarnation of the Dragon.