1
Tamyrlin: 2003-01-11
That is an interesting point, that if Lanfear had him, he would end up calling himself Lews. But I don't know that you can tie that to Lanfear, only that the Lews personality would conquer Rand's personality because of Lanfear's influence. And I thought the mark was something else? If you could find the quote and prove that it occurred before Lews ever showed up talking to Rand you might have something, but I believe it is unlikely.
2
Mairashda: 2003-01-16
The marking occurs sometime during Rands stay in the Waste (tSR)...some time before Rand actually starts to hear the voice. However, I do not believe that Lews' voice is her mark plainly because Rand has been remembering things that must have come from Lews Therin's experience and how to do things (especially as to channeling) quite some time before that. The voice is just another step after those in the awakening of soul no.2 ...notice that in the beginning all the voice did was wail and rage about, while in CoT Rand is able to actually hold a reasonable conversation with it.
3
Darren: 2003-01-17
Actually, Lanfear said, in TSR, I think, that Someone (else) has marked you... no matter.... You were mine before that golden haired chit...
The only other reference she made to marking him that I know of is when she bites his ear in TAR.
4
Jalwin Moerad: 2003-03-23
I'm new here, but I wanted to offer a possibility. Only in LOC does Rand begin to hear voices (correct me if I'm wrong). We know that in FOH Rahvin sets up some sort of weave in Tel'aran'rhoid that causes Rand to lose control of himself. Is it possible that the voice in Rand's head is a remnant of this?
5
Janstince: 2003-03-23
Actually, at the end of the Battle for Cairhien (the city) in FoH, Rand is clearly saying things that he has no ability to know, except that it seems Lews Therin would. I do believe that would be considered Lews Therin's voice right there, using Rand as a medium of some sort. On the other hand, RAND ONLY HAS ONE SOUL :P BOOYAH!
6
Great Lord of the Dark: 2003-03-24
Lanfear says incredulously "You have been marked," I think in the Shadow Rising, ch. 9 or 10. Whether she is referring to her own mark left at teh end of The Great Hunt, or some mark left by Ba'alzamon is up for debate.
*spoiler*
We've now seen a little more about "marks" from Alviarins point of view in Crossroads of Twilight.
Padan Fain's ability to recognize Darkfriends at a glance may be related to them having some mark as well. It seems anyone the Shadow wants to single out, either as enemy or ally, can be marked in some way only visible to the Shadow's commanders. Maybe it's done with the True Power, since only its users (excepting Fain) can see these marks, the Chosen being the only people who would recognize its use.
If these things are related, then there's little chance the voices in Rand's head are caused by the mark. It's just a Shadow-visible flag saying "here I am, don't kill me, the Shadow wants me alive. For now."
7
Callandor: 2003-03-24
Most people agree that Rand first says or thinks things he shouldnt know in TSR when he yells at Lanfear in the Stone that she loved power and always desired it.
8
Jalwin Moerad: 2003-03-25
What I meant to say was that Rand does not TALK to Lews Therin until LOC. I know he says things that he shouldn't know in other books. Is it possible that talking to Lews Therin could be a result of Rahvin? I'm probably wrong, but I just wanted to clarify what I meant.
9
araqyl: 2003-05-12
I think it's possible that Rahvin's little trap boosted LTT to greater consciousness in Rand's head, but he was definitely there before - when Rand started shifting, LTT was right there asserting his personality and 'existence', in this way showing Rand how to hold on to himself as well.
If this is the case I believe it just accelerated something that was always going to happen - LTT was always going to gain enough 'independence' to speak to Rand, the trap and LTT's response just pushed it a bit closer.
10
Traveller: 2005-08-05
When Rand is with Min at the end of Book2 after the battle at Falme, lanfear arrives and "traced a mark on his forehead" and Min thinks it looked like the Dragon's Fang. Lanfear could have been channeling, coz min would have no idea as she cant channel, and if Lanfear was, the channeling was focused on Rand's head... So there is some connections as it is the only time we have actually seen Lanfear "mark" him rather than just talk about it.
However, Lanfear was going soft if she though making him more like LTT would help her, as LTT turned her down, remember? I would hope than Lanfear was a little wiser than this, but then again she might just have been being foolish in love.
11
Callandor: 2005-08-06
**So there is some connections as it is the only time we have actually seen Lanfear "mark" him rather than just talk about it.**
Lanfear didn't mark Rand. She Healed him. Rand was on the verge of death, no one was around enough to Heal him, but Lanfear did. Egwene came in, saw Min and Rand, and left to get Nynaeve and Verin. By the time they got there, Rand should've been dead. By the time Moiraine got there, Rand should've been dead. He wasn't. The only other channeler that came into contact with Rand in that time, was Lanfear.
She Healed him, not marked him.
12
Traveller: 2005-08-06
But surely during that healing, she could have done something else, like another piece of channeling, or even maybe the two are connected if she did them at the same time- the voice and the wound, so if the wound goes, maybe the voices will die...?
13
Anubis: 2005-08-06
RJ answered this question, and i write it off as another stupid lanfear theory.
14
JakOShadows: 2005-08-06
I agree with Callandor on this one. And in that same conversationshe also asks Min to take good care of him until she gets back, so its also along the same line of thought as her healing him. The only reason to mark him would be to draw darkfriends to him which would hinder him more than help him survive.
15
Callandor: 2005-08-07
**But surely during that healing, she could have done something else, like another piece of channeling, or even maybe the two are connected if she did them at the same time- the voice and the wound, so if the wound goes, maybe the voices will die...?**
It's pure supposition. We have no reason to think she did anything other than Heal Rand.
Quotes that I thought were unnecessary:
**TITLE: Great Hunt, CHAPTER: 49 - What Was Meant To Be
"You can't do any good with that. It isn't healed all the way, yet. Verin tried Healing, but she said it didn't work the way it should." She hesitated, nibbling her lip. "Moiraine says Nynaeve must have done something, or you wouldn't have lived till we carried you to Verin, but Nynaeve says she was too frightened to light a candle. There is . . . something wrong with your wound. You will have to wait for it to heal naturally." She seemed troubled.**
Moiraine didn't do it; Verin didn't do it; Nynaeve didn't do it; Egwene didn't know how or didn't have the strength to. The list of channelers that could do this is running short.
**TITLE: Great Hunt, CHAPTER: 48 - First Claiming
"The woman came to stand over the bed - her movements were so graceful, Min felt a stab of envy, though she had never before envied any woman anything - and smoothed Rand's hair as if Min were not there. "He doesn't believe yet, I think. He knows, but he does not believe. I have guided his steps, pushed him, pulled him, enticed him. He was always stubborn, but this time I will shape him. Ishamael thinks he controls events, but I do." Her finger brushed Rand's forehead as if drawing a mark; Min thought uneasily that it looked like the Dragon's Fang. Rand stirred, murmuring, the first sound or movement he had made since she found him."
Then RJ's comment takes into account, for which the answer I have memorized, since it is both so short, and sadly the question I asked:
**Q: What did Lanfear do when she drew the Dragon's Fang on Rand's forehead?
A: She drew the Dragon's Fang on Rand's forehead. For exactly the reason you would think.**
She Healed him.
16
therobotbadger: 2005-08-07
Callandor:
**By the time they got there, Rand should've been dead. By the time Moiraine got there, Rand should've been dead. He wasn't.**
I think the fact that Lanfear Healed him is just pure speculation. We don't know exactly how long Rand could have survived with his injuries or how long it took any Third-Age Healers to reach him.
Min finds Rand in Falme after his fight with Ba'alzamon/Ishamael. She says, "His chest rose and fell too slowly, and not with the regular rhythm of someone breathing normally."* Egwene shows up, talks to Min, and goes off to find Nynaeve.
Then Lanfear shows up and sits next to the prone Rand. Min's POV says, "Her finger brushed Rand's forehead as if drawing a mark; Min thought uneasily that it looked like the Dragon's Fang. Rand stirred, murmuring, the first sound or movement he had made since she found him."* After that, Min mentions nothing about his breathing or health, so we can't know if they improved immediately after Lanfear's visit. The next time we see Rand and Min, they are five days out of Falme and with Moiraine, who had more than enough time in that period to Heal Rand.
Now, the fact that Rand did physically react to whatever weave Lanfear channeled into him (if indeed there was one at all!) lends support to the idea that she Healed him; after all, Healing of the Third Age sort tends to have violent reactions. However, if Lanfear did "mark" Rand somehow with the Power, we have no idea what kind of weave this would be and what reactions it might elicit. There is simply no way that I can unequivocably say that Lanfear Healled Rand based on textual information. There is too little to support it. (Though if there's an interview I'm not aware of that bears on this subject, mea culpa.)
*Quotes from The Great Hunt, Chapter 48 - First Claiming
17
Callandor: 2005-08-09
**I think the fact that Lanfear Healed him is just pure speculation. We don't know exactly how long Rand could have survived with his injuries or how long it took any Third-Age Healers to reach him.**
Read what I quoted above:
**TITLE: Great Hunt, CHAPTER: 49 - What Was Meant To Be
"You can't do any good with that. It isn't healed all the way, yet. Verin tried Healing, but she said it didn't work the way it should." She hesitated, nibbling her lip. "Moiraine says Nynaeve must have done something, or you wouldn't have lived till we carried you to Verin, but Nynaeve says she was too frightened to light a candle. There is . . . something wrong with your wound. You will have to wait for it to heal naturally." She seemed troubled.**
Rand, simply, should be dead. He isn't. Someone Healed him. Egwene wasn't present, and her strength in Healing is questionable. The quote shows that both Verin and Moiraine weren't present. It also shows that Nynaeve was too scared to do anything with the One Power, let alone Healing.
All the normal channelers are accounted for and did not do it. The only canidate left, is Lanfear.
**After that, Min mentions nothing about his breathing or health, so we can't know if they improved immediately after Lanfear's visit.**
The fact that it's the first movement or sound he's made since Min found him shows that he's already improving. Min had to find him, drag him into a building, then was holding him for a while before Egwene showed up, and then Lanfear showed up. In all that, he was just dead weight. Once Lanfear did what she did, he made a distinct improvement. Where's the mystery?
**The next time we see Rand and Min, they are five days out of Falme and with Moiraine, who had more than enough time in that period to Heal Rand.**
Except for the part I already quoted which shows she did no such thing.
**There is simply no way that I can unequivocably say that Lanfear Healled Rand based on textual information. There is too little to support it.**
False, as I have shown twice now.
