ew Demandred Theory
by Jasin Natael: 2001-01-26 | 6.05 out of 10 (22 votes)
We now know beyond a doubt that Demandred is NOT Taim or he would have recognized Damer Flinn. So what has Demandred been up to? Nobody ever seems to give it thought past "Is he Taim?". So, lemme have a crack at it!
In Lord of Chaos, Sammael and Graendal meet at her place in Arad Doman. (Lord of Chaos, Threads Woven of Shadow, paperback page 179):
"Events to the south had Demandred's mark all over them. Demandred had always liked using proxies. 'Tell him to be careful. I won't have him or his friends interfering in my plans.' Perhaps he could direct al'Thor's attention there that would likely put an end to him. If other means did not work. 'So long as they steer clear of me, his lackeys can carve out what he wants, but they will steer clear or he will answer for it.'"
This would indicate that the events in question are either to the south of Graendal's place, or to the south of where Sammael came from. Since we know Sammael was holed up in Illian, that means the south of Graendal's (she is in Arad Doman). SO, events to the south could include (with a slight bit of geographical leeway) Falme, Emond's Field, Tanchico, Ghealdan, Amadicia or MAYBE Altara. Also, just in case they refer to The South being the entire southern coast, we'll throw in Illian and Tear.
Ok, let's whittle the list down. Nothing in Ebou Dar has even happened yet, and it wouldn't be Illian, Sammael's home turf or he would have said. If it had been Tear I think he would have said to the east or just 'Tear'. We also know that Falme was all about Ishamael and the Seanchan* unless Demandred has something to do with them, which I really doubt, this excludes Falme.
* -- Side note: although I believe Demandred has nothing to do with the Seanchan, the same cannot be said for Semirhage. She is Anath. (see "Semirhage is Anath" by Yurian Stonebow)
I don't think that Demandred had anything to do with the goings-on in Tanchico, either......surely Moghedian would have known about that, given her habit of spying on everyone (yes, yes.....from the shadows).
So what's that leave us with? Emond's Field, Ghealdan, and Amadicia. In Amadicia, I don't think anything of vast importance has gone on by this time in Lord of Chaos Pedron Nial is still pulling all the Whitecloaks in from everywhere (and we know he isn't Demandred or under his control, either, simply by the segments in his perspective). This leaves us with Emond's Field and Ghealdan, home of The Prophet.
I think it is quite possible that Demandred sent Isam and Trollocs to ravage Emond's Field in order to draw Rand there......seems like a decent strategy to me, and Demandred IS a great general. Whether he ordered this attack on Rand's home or not is merely icing on the cake.
I believe that Demandred is controlling Masema, The Prophet. I say he's controlling, not is, becasue I don't think Demandred has the time, patience or self-restraint to play the role of The Prophet. Besides, this is the sort of surrogate that Sammael was talking about in LOC when he said Demandred liked using proxies. Sammael just wanted the Prophet's followers to stay away from him.Think about it: Demandred now has an army of rabble to do what he wants, and everything they do causes chaos and gives Rand a bad name. When Nynaeve meets with Masema in Lord of Chaos, she thinks that he is crazy and seems to be looking and listening to someone or something thats not really there. (The Fires of Heaven, Encounters in Somara, paperback page 618):
" 'Tear.' Masema took his hands away, and she surreptitiously rubbed her arms. She did not have to try hiding it, though he was staring at something beyond sight again. 'Yes, I have heard.' Speaking to something beyond sight, too, or to himself. 'When Amadicia has come to the Lord Dragon as Ghealdan has, I will lead the people to Tear, to bask in the radiance of the Lord Dragon.' "
Could Demandred be in the room, using Saidin so that only Masema can see and hear him? I'm sure there's a way to invert weaves or whatever so that nobody but who you choose can see or hear you Rand marked the spot where he buried Callandor outside Far Madding so he would see a shaft of light but nobody (including Asha'man) would see it or even notice anything if they were right next to it.
This would explain why Masema was adament about not using the One Power to reach Rand, but then said they would use it to Travel to find Faile. Demandred has some scheme brewing but I have no idea what.
As a final thought, I think Demandred IS posing as a known character, someone who is relatively close to Rand. I say this because in Winter's Heart Aran'gar makes a comment on how it was Osan'gar's and Demandred's tasks to stay close to Rand and keep an eye on him (or something like that.....don't have the book with me right now). So who could it be? I say someone (not necessarily an Asha'man, because I'm sure he would disguise that he can channel) that has been around for a while and has not shown us any reason to suspect them. The only thing that keeps me away from saying Bashere is the whole part where Faile and her mother see him. Demandred couldn't pull that off. So I really don't know who he could be, just that when we find out it will be someone we already know and think is good (Dobraine maybe?).
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1
Tamyrlin: 2001-01-26
Okay, I like that. The prophet being Demandred's proxy seems very reasonable. But you are right, then who is Demandred walking around as? If he is close to Rand, it has to be someone that can "be away" for short periods of time that would not be noticed by Rand and company as suspicious. He needs plenty of time to watch his proxies and such. I wonder if Demandred is watching from the "sidelines", and doesn't have a specific "identity". Very interesting.
2
Great Lord of the Dark: 2003-02-26
Wow. It's not Rand who will battle Demandred and the Asha'man, it's not Mat who will pit his luck vs. Demandred's, but Perrin who gets to deal with a Forsaken. Outrageous idea, but remember Couladin was being set up as a big Rand opponent until Mat killed him. Not sure I agree yet, but good stuff!
3
Jeebus: 2003-02-26
I can't agree with you more. I had a similar theory that I was going to write up but you beat me to it! ;) But I think that Demandred has weaved a form of compulsion on Masema. Remember that Perrin smells nothing but madness about him. Yet some of his actions are very precise, not something a madman would come up with. And how could someone like Masema control a nation or two with mere rabble without outside help? I also think that Weiramon is being controlled by Demandred too, but I haven't got enough evidence to support this, but there is enough evidence to support that he is not what he seems.
I think Demandred is in hiding, pulling the strings of others. Remember that he is formulating a plan with Mesanna and Semirhage. Is Demandred clearing the south, so that the Seanchan can attack a weakened White Tower?
4
Orko: 2003-02-26
I don't think the Prophet could be a pawn of Demandred. The only way I could see this was if Demandred was disguising himself to look like Rand. In all the descriptions we see of the Prophet, he is described as a extreme fanatic for Rand so extreme to the point of madness. If he was speaking to somone "beyond sight" about Rand it would have to be to someone other than Rand. So that kind of shoots holes in Demandred disguising himself as Rand mentioned above which I think would be only viable way of getting Prophet to be manipulated. The Prophet knows from personal experience that Perrin is a close friend of Rand. And he doesn't believe or take seriously what Perrin says Rand told him to do. So that kind of shoots holes in theory that Demandred is pretending to be some sort of envoy or messenger from Rand.
Suppose the argument Compulsion will be brought up, but I don't really see that as being a likely possibility either. Due to Madness, or excessive fervor of the Prophet. That's just what I think so take it or leave it.
5
Anubis: 2003-02-26
"I think it is quite possible that Demandred sent Isam and Trollocs to ravage Emond's Field in order to draw Rand there......seems like a decent strategy to me, and Demandred IS a great general. Whether he ordered this attack on Rand's home or not is merely icing on the cake."
naah, the trollocs where sent after fain. i believe that it was fains plan all along and that he expected trollocs to be sent after him and was using this against rand by being obvious about his prescense in the two rivers.
6
Janstince: 2003-02-27
There is the whole matter of Suroth's note, and she is a Darkfriend, as proved in TGH. My guess is that Semirhage and Demandred are working together with all this, and the fervor and madness might be real or even might be some weave set by Semy herself, spreading to people who are too weak to resist, or something.
7
Shadow Bane: 2003-06-12
I just wanted to say that it is quite possible that some forsaken was in Sheinar, Ingtar was a darkfriend remember, so why wouldn't a forsaken come into contact with Masema, a already dark character? Also remember how Masema hated Rand, why would he change his mind after finding out Rand was the Dragon? Maybe his saw a way out of being a darkfriend...
8
SugarBullet: 2003-11-25
Interesting stuff.
I'm still stuck on the whole three hooked noses offered to us at once in Lord of Chaos. Granted they were all Saldeans... but Jordan purposely described all three as having "hooked", "hawk", or "hatchet" noses. I suppose it might be to point out the saldean nose, but this comes right after Jordan really gets us interested in Demandred and where he might be. Likewise, in tFoH, Jordan offered us three red herrings for Moghedian on the ship to Salidar. It seems to point to Demandred being present when Taim announces himself. bashere and taim take all the focus, but Tumad slips by our attentions despite being described to fit DEm. as well as being otherwise irrelevant tot he scene.
If this were true, it would likely be because as Bashere's second, Dem manages to stay very close, but not under the direct gaze. While events to the south "bear his mark", the fur lined cloak he wears at the beginning may well point to he residence in the north.
just a thought, but at this point jordan's writing style has me too suspicious of three noses in one room directly under rand's *nose* directly following the increased attention and focus on Demandred in previous chapters.
9
Traveller: 2005-09-24
I think you are RIGHT!
There is absolutely nothing to argue with this theory and it makes most sense- I was thinking that Masema WAS Demandred, but I knew it didn't work or make semse, so this si the answer!
10
JakOShadows: 2005-09-25
Jeebus: That's an interesting correlation there. And it does make sense. But how would they get past Andor. I guess they always go around the main city. It does seem like a good plan though. I just can't help thinking they were already weak as it is. Unless they were trying to slow down the whitecloaks.
11
Anubis: 2005-09-25
masmea isnt demandred.
RJ has stated that we have not seen demandred posing as anyone but demandred.