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alf the light

by Drekan: 2002-12-05 | 3 out of 10 (4 votes)

Previous Categories: Mat and the Daughter of the Nine Moons

While reading other stuff. The alfinns prophecy suddenly made sense to me. They say to mat that he must 'give up half the light in the world to save the world'. The thought came over me that one half of the light is the sun. The other half is the moon. Mat must marry the daughter of the nine moons. I then read the last bit as meaning that he must then lose tDotNM(the moon, half the light) to save the world.

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Comments

Tamyrlin: 2002-12-05

I don't think I have ever seen this idea (although, I don't claim to read every single post on the boards and such), but this idea does have merit. I have never been fond of this prophecy symbolizing that mat will lose an eye (although there is a dream from Egwene with a bandage over one eye...if I am not mistaken), but this would make sense. How ironic, Mat is told he will marry the DoTNM, but then he will lose her. I wonder if that would make Mat seek out Finnland once more?

cosmicpanda: 2002-12-19

I don't know if you've heard this before, I don't remember it on the boards anyway.

Him losing the eye could symbolise half the light, if you think about it...

If you have heard this before, kick me.

Darren: 2003-01-10

No way... they need a new Eye of the World, and it's gonna be Mat's. And the Aelfinn (Eelfinn? I can't tell them apart -_-a) would not tell him the same thing twice. "To give up half the light of the world to save the world," was one of his three answers, and another one "to marry the daughter of the nine moons" is another. You're essentially saying they said the same thing twice.

Callandor: 2003-01-10

How is **to give up half the light to save the world** the same as **to marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons**??

Darren: 2003-01-11

Read the above. It WOULD be the same thing if both "giving up" and "marry" were linked to the daughter of the moons. I'm saying they're not the same thing at all.

Darren: 2003-01-19

To get back to the issue at hand, however, I will quote from the Dragon Reborn, "Questions."

"A little cautious questioning of the Aes Sedai... had revealed that a Dreamer's dreams about ta'veren were almost always significant, and the more strongly ta'veren, the more "almost always" became "certainly."

But Mat and Perrin were ta'veren, too, and she had dreamed of them... [Perrin dreams omitted] Those about Mat had been even nastier. Mat placing his own left eye on a balance scale. Mat, hanging by his neck from a tree limb...." (pgs 290-291 of the paperback... I have the hc in storage somewhere.)

I kept the hanging dream in to show how literally these dreams might be taken, as that is EXACTLY what happens. Combined with "giving up half the light of the world to save the world," I think the only valid interpretation is Mat giving up an eye. I may well be wrong about it being a new Eye Of The World... but the orb goes.

Callandor: 2003-01-19

In one of the books, I think Egwene had a dream about it or something, but it had Mat giving up his eye to gain more knowledge or something.

Now its pretty, bordering on painfully, obvious that Mat will answer Aludras riddle and learn of the cannon. Now couldnt he be tinkering with it, like he did with the fireworks and with the clock he said he messed with when he was a kid, and he gets hurt (maybe his eye) and he figures out that they are actually dangerous and he "learns" that he can apply them in battle.

This would meet Egwene's dream of Mat taking fireworks from the sky and that she knew the world was changed and that people would die from it.

Graendalboytoy: 2003-02-10

I like the idea about the moon and the sun...But I still lean more in the direction of Callandor when he mentions that Mat would be injured in his discovery of firearms...i.e You could take your eye out with one of those things...

Janstince: 2003-03-12

But is it really half of the light of the world? If he just loses an eye, then he's only giving up half of his sight. That doesn't seem much like half the light of the world, to me. Also, while a Dreamer's dreams can be very literal, most of the time they aren't, they are just symbolic of pain, like Gawyn choosing a path at the fork of the road. It's not that he has actually been on a road where he chooses the fork, it's his life's path that he chooses.

Anyway, maybe this whole light of the world business is not the right way to look at it. Perhaps instead of giving up half the light of the world, he's actually going to immerse the other half in shadow. The most obvious allusion is the shadow of war. Mat's inventions, if he ever gets his lazy butt around to inventing, could easily throw half the world into turmoil before or after TG, but they will help in TG so he saves the world by giving up half of the peace or something.

Sinnamoon: 2003-03-30

I am not sure but I took Half the light to symbolically... Okie we know Matt has a real problem killing women right? He has done things that lead to the deaths of three women and he blames himself for this right? He then swears that he would something like die before killing another women. Well, What is women was half the light (meaning men were the other half) and he ends up having to kill a women to to save the world? Just a thought kinda off the beaten path..

Great Captain: 2003-03-30

Mins initial veiwing of Mat showed an eyeball on a scale. Half his sight or light while its symbolic only coupled with Egwenes dream it sort of bluntly points to him losing an eye.

Brighid: 2003-06-03

It seems like RJ is using some Nordic mythology when it comes to Matt...Odin, the Norse king of the gods, whose province included warriors, gives up an eye in exchange for a drink of water from Mimisbrum, the well of knowledge. He also hangs himself from Yggdrasil, the World Tree, the tree of life, (and one could certainly draw comparisons between yggdrasil and avendasora although almost every culture on earth has some kind of 'tree of life' in their mythology or religion), again for knowledge, (this time of the sacred runic secrets). Mat, with his knowledge of battle (however gained), not to mention a certain rakishness and, shall we say, joie de vive, is a great deal like Odin.

That said, it seems likely that he will give up his eye for knowledge, as part of a bargain of some sort, willingly, not in an accident.

rubbernilly: 2003-06-03

One of the best theories i have read about this talked about how Mat was an unwilling spy for the DO. Perhaps that theory is even on this site, but I will blatantly paraphrase and relate the highlights:

1) When the boys are fleeing Emond's Field, we see Perrin's dreams, and we see Rand's dreams. Both of them deny the DO - refusing to drink the wine that they are offered. Mat's dreams, on the other hand, we never see. Is this because Mat did not turn down the wine, not knowing that the acceptance was an acceptance of the DO? That the wine would forge a link with the DO?

2) One thing that we do learn about Mat's dreams is that after one he wakes and says something like, "He took my eyes! Oh, light! The Dark One took my eyes!"

3) At one point, SH (I think) says that he has spies with each camp of players, some who were spies who did not know that they served.

4) After the Portal Stone fiasco, where everyone involved lived thousands of different lives in flashes, Ingtar must have seen that he was a DO in a good many (as he was in the real world) and exclaims that he walks in the light. Applying the same sort of resonance of what-is to what-could-be with Mat, and you have him telling Rand something like, "Rand, you know I'd never betray you! I'd never tell anyone about you!" Odd. Did he see himself betraying Rand multiple times?

5) After Rand visits him secretly (as Mat is traveling to take charge of the army aimed at Illian), word has spread already by the next day that the Dragon had been there the day before. Only Rand and Mat knew that he had been there. (I think there are a couple of instances like this, where people know things that you wouldn't expect them to know, things that Mat had been privy to).

Sooooo.... the theory goes that Mat actually took the wine and was marked out by Ishy (for the DO). The method of connection is his eye. That is, particular agents of the SHadow can tap in from time to time and see what he sees. He doesn't remember that he accepted the wine now because of the Shadar Logoth memory-holes.

If that is the case - if the DO has an unwilling/ignorant spy in Mat - then it makes sense that if and when Mat learns of this, he would end up taking his own eye to remove the connection to the DO.

That is the most interesting theory - and the most compelling reasoning - I've seen anyone offer. Much better, I am very sorry to say, than the "playing with fireworks and he loses an eye, so he learns how dangerous they are and that they can be used as weapons" idea.

1) He knows how dangerous they are, he used them to blast in to the Stone.

2) "give up half the light of the world" does more that just imply sacrifice; this is a deliberate choice that he makes, knowing what he is doing, when he gives up "half the light of the world," whatever that turns out to be.

My vote is for his eye, and I support the theory I paraphrased above.

Tigraine: 2003-06-04

Has anyone mentioned that his eye could be the "price" set due to the treaty with the Aelfinn and Eelfinn should he visit them again while trying to save Moiraine should Thom intervene in his current quest with Tuon? After his last visit to their realm, it's doubtful that he's going to overlook setting a price this time around. I think he might willingly offer his eye (for some odd reason) as payment for one of wishes. Either that... or maybe its the price ALREADY set by the Aelfinn and it just hasn't been collected quite yet.

heronblade: 2003-06-04

isn't the light often meaning knowledge (enlightenment) perhaps he has to loose the memories that he gained while saving the world?

Shadow Bane: 2003-06-09

Oh one last idea what if near TG Mat gets really desperate or something so he gives up his military memories to save someone (Moiraine?) that would mean he gave up his ability to command troops in TG effectively but he would of saved Moi who is needed at TG hence he would be giving up his hope of winning TG for the hope that Moi would help win TG half the light to save the world.

Shadow Bane: 2003-06-21

Scratch that last post. I GOT IT !

1)the wise ones have a dream about Rand cutting the world in half with a sword.

The sword sybolizes war. Rand will cut the world in half with war.

2)The Seanchan currently control about half of the world. They are at war with Rand. Mat is forming a connectin with one of the strongest Seanchan powers.

Mat will have to make a decision between who's side to fight for Tuon's or Rand's.

3)Mat see's a flicker of himself betraying Rand in TGH

It is possible for Mat to betray Rand.

4)Egwene sees Mat putting his eye on a balance scale.

Mat is deciding who to give his support to

5)The Aelfinn tell Mat he will give up half of the light of the world to save the world.

Mat will choose Rand because the Dragon is needed to fight at TG and save the world and in doing so will give up the half of the world that is Seanchan to save the land's united under Rand (the other half)

I think this makes alot of sense and it fits with alot of the prophecies and dream foretellings.

meradin: 2003-08-09

Janstince, If Matrim loses an eye... I'ts half of the light of the world to HIM. And, a dreamers dream is stronger with Ta'veren... but Gawyn isn't one... which could explain why it was so obscure with him. And, I'm sorry.. but firearms throwing the world into turmiol... if Damane, the Dragon Reborn, and all of the other F*@$ up stuff doesn't do it... do you think an inverted firecracker would.... I think not.

Anubis: 2003-08-09

well, with the invention of guns, channelers wouldnt be so freakin unkillable anymore now would they...

that would deffinatly shake up the world.

Grady: 2003-10-10

Think I've got it. Mat will lose his eye when he tries to figure out how to beat the snakes and foxes. Egwene's vision clearly shows Mat with blood pouring from his face but she could'nt see his eyes. He loses eye=half the light of his world in order to help rescue Moiraine who is gone, who must be brought back like Rand was told or he can't win last battle=to save the world.

My proof? In Norse mythology Odin went to the tree of knowledge and asked to know all the secrets of the universe. The guardians of the tree were two Ravens named Thought and Memory and they demanded his left eye in return. Now Mat has this spear with ravens on it that says "Thus is our treaty written; thus is agreement made;THOUGHT is the arrow of time; MEMORY never fades. What was asked is given. The price is paid." Also in the Norse legend, the two ravens later perched upon Odin's shoulders and brought back news of the world to him.(Ravens on shoulders anyone?) So I'm saying that when Mat tries to figure out how to break the tower of genji's secrets(secrets of the universe) something will happen to where he will have to give up his lefty in return, thus saving Moiraine, thus helping Rand out, thus saving the world. What do you think about that?

kikyo: 2003-10-11

I also have read somewhere that Robert Jordan has stated that the parallels between Mat and Odin are deliberate, which strongly supports the eye theory.

Caramoor: 2003-10-13

Its unlikely that Jordan would steal directly from mythology without adding his twist. Mat losing his eye would be toooooo much like Odin. There has to be some sort of twist. I think it will be Tuon that Mat sacrifices. The moon is half the light of the world.

jackmisfit: 2003-10-13

Marrying the Daughter of the Nine Moons and giving up half the light of the world could easily mean 2 seperate but related things. He marrys Tuon and moves to Seanchan. Seanchan is on the other side of the world, so wouldn't that be like giving up half the light of the world? I imagine that with him married to the DotNM, he would be able to align the Seanchan to Rands side for the final battle.

Are there any prophecies in the books that say that Mat is going to save Moiraine? I thought that that was Thom's job. I know that Mat is going to figure out how to beat the 'finns, but I just couldn't remember if he was prophecied, (even vaguely), to go to Finnland and save her.

Callandor: 2003-10-13

**He marrys Tuon and moves to Seanchan. Seanchan is on the other side of the world, so wouldn't that be like giving up half the light of the world? I imagine that with him married to the DotNM, he would be able to align the Seanchan to Rands side for the final battle.**

1. RJ said that other then what was already in the stories, there were no ideas for a trip to Seanchan with nay major character.

2. With 2 books left (hopefully), there seems to be hardly any time for Mat to get to Seanchan, live for even a little bit, and return in time to take place in the Last Battle.

3. Tuon is in Randland. What Tuon says is nearly law. There is no need to go over to Seanchan to get them on Rand's side.

jackmisfit: 2003-10-14

He wouldn't have to leave Randland...yet. I think it would be an ending like Return of the King, once everything is wrapped up, there would be a parting of the ways and he would leave Randland to rule in Seanchan.

Callandor: 2003-10-14

**He wouldn't have to leave Randland...yet. I think it would be an ending like Return of the King, once everything is wrapped up, there would be a parting of the ways and he would leave Randland to rule in Seanchan.**

Forgot to add, Mat isn't of the Imperial Family; no way would he have a chance of ruling. Tuon can, but he wouldn't. He would be her husband not her superior.

Mat: 2003-10-29

I like this idea of giving up Tuon. In line with the prophecy of marrying the daughter of the nine moons, I think that after Matt marries Tuon he actually falls in love with her. He seems to already be doing that now. I think then, as stated before, he will be placed in a position of choosing between her and Rand. And I think that means he will have to give her up to save the world as it has been said by Min that Rand will need both Perrin and Matt with him to win the LB. ie the lights being swallowed by the dark, always stronger when more of the three are together.

So maybe Tuon is to be punished and sent back to Seanchan and Mat has to choose whether to go or to stay.

Just my two cents

Jalt Varyd: 2003-10-30

I favor the Eye theory. The parallel to Odin supports this, and there have been other indications that Mat will lose an eye somehow. Sight, to me, seems like the most logical translation of "light of the world" in context, so "half the light of the world" would be one eye. Of course, prophecy is always vague, and frequently can't even be understood until it is fulfilled, so only RJ can say for certain.

rubbernilly: 2003-10-30

The problem with the "half the light of the world" meaning Tuon theory is that it does not satisfy Egwene's two separate dreams about Mat:

1) Him putting his left eye on the balance scale

2) Him dicing with the DO, his hat pulled low to hide his wound, but blood running down his face

So it seems pretty clear that Mat is going to lose an eye, anyway, regardless of if this is what RJ intends to use to satisfy the prophecy of the Finn.

If the case turns out to be that both events happen, that is, Mat sacrifices Tuon and Mat loses an eye, then we as readers are going to have to choose which one we think satisfies the prophecy better.

It seems that most readers would think that him choosing to lose his eye would be the best answer to that question... better than sacrificing Tuon... or better than moving to Seanchan, as has been discussed.

Bottom Line -

If Mat is going to lose an eye, as seems to be the case according to two separate dreams of Egwene's, then it only makes sense that *this* would be the satisfaction of the requirements of the closely-similar prophecy that he would give up half the light of the world.

Deadsy: 2003-10-31

I agree with the eye theory. I can't think of why he'd have to give up Tuon to save the world. Rand is going to bind the nine moons to serve him, so I don't think Mat will have to trade one for the other.

mako0424: 2003-11-14

I found the odin Matt parallelism to be both in-depth and deliberate. To all those saying he'll give up Tuon, don't be stupid, i am pretty confident that the Seanchan will come to Rand's aid eventually. I think the major characters will all play huge roles in Tarmon, and they will all bring an army of sorts. Matt will affect the Seanchan and the Red Hand. Perrin and Manetheran. nynaeve and Lan will bring forth Malkier once again. egwene and her huge army of warriors and novices.

But i would have to agree, matt will lose an eye to receive something vital, not Moiraine, but possibly the life of Tuon who will than help save the world after bringing the Senachan armies to bear upon Shadar.

Aelfinn: 2003-11-25

The Eye theory (give up half the light of the world) makes perfect sense to me. I mean, I thought that something like that would happen to someone after the first book, with all those dreams about marking and so on. After TDR I was almost certain, and with the Aelfinn in TSR I was positive. This was before I even knew anyone else in the world read WoT, so it's my own idea.

(Replying to someone: And how can you tell light but by seeing? You can feel SUNlight, but it isn't just light, heat is included.)

BTW, does anything feel that RJ has been emphasizing that a bit too much? When anybody in writing keeps repeating a fact, either it's not true at all, or completely true. When it's confirmed by half-a-dozen different characters, I get a feeling it's true. (Heck, in books 1-5, the 'give up half the light of the world to save the world' was repeated in different ways almost as much as Tarma Gai'don, and we all know that's happening!)

Getting somewhat off topic, Egwene's dream said something like "Thom drawing Moiraine's blue stone out of a fire...while blood streamed down Mat's face, his hat pulled down so she couldn't see the wound." 'While' implies that the two are connected. Anyone with me on that?

crispyroach: 2004-02-11

Oh yeah, I'm with you. Theories all around. Mat will go with Thom through to tower to save Moiraine, and have to give an eye to do it. THEN Tuon will have leashed Rand and will be making him **bow to the crystal throne** by making him fight the LB the way she thinks. Mat will learn this and must have her die (by killing or otherwise) to have Rand save the world the way he should.

Anyone?

Turandil: 2004-04-12

Well, I have been thinking.

Is it possible that "half the light of the world" means Rand and the other half is...well the rest of the world? And that Mat sometime will have to sacrefice his friend to save the world, maybe Rand standing there at the last battle turns over to the dark side and Mat therfor is forced to kill him.

Oatman: 2004-04-12

Despite the fact that thier is nuthin short of a circle of 13 aes sedai and 13 myrdraal that would turn Rand, if he did turn matt wouldnt stand much of a chance since he would be channeling thruogh the CK and possibly Callandor.

Besides which I cant think of any interpertation of the books that would have Rands life equalling the rest of the world, considering he was born into it to save it.

Vercisisolde: 2004-06-16

Responding to rubbernilly's post:

I've read the theory you were talking about and I want to support it so badly...

So here's my 2 cents: Egwene's dream specifically shows Mat putting his *left* eye on a balance scale. In tEotW, Ba'alzamon releases a raven at Perrin in a dream, and it plucks out his *left* eye.

It seems insane, but I'm hoping it's true.

Poole: 2004-08-06

I always thought that the dream that Egwene had with Mat dicing with the dark one and blood streaming down his face already happened. Soon after that dream, Mat fought with Coulidan and he was injured on top of his head, so that blood was streaming down his face and he could barely see.

I'm still not so sure that any of the dreams/foretellings about the eye on the balance scale, etc. are going to be about him literally losing an eye.

Daekyras: 2004-08-06

Hey everybody, my first post in months.

Just for all those people who connect Mat to Odin, which I was originally a fan of, is not all that it cracks up to be. Odin was very unlike matt in many ways. For one, Odin was seen to embody femnine traits. Something I don't think could be used to describe matt.

Callandor: 2004-08-06

**I always thought that the dream that Egwene had with Mat dicing with the dark one and blood streaming down his face already happened. Soon after that dream, Mat fought with Coulidan and he was injured on top of his head, so that blood was streaming down his face and he could barely see.**

The dream is connected directly to Thom pulling out Moiraine's stone hair thing of a fire. Since Mat wasn't with Thom at the time, it's doubtful it has been fulfilled, if it will.

damane: 2004-10-01

What's interesting is that every one of these theories holds so much more possibilities than I had thought at first.

The Odin theory could work, considering that apparently much of Mat's fate resembles that of Odin's. But more than that, if you'll notice, alot of attention has been placed on Mat's "pretty eyes." That alone just screams of him losing them. The only flaw to this theory, is that pretty much everyone has already discovered the similarities between the two, and these theories are now bordering on fact. It was said that Jordan would add a twist to it, and what better time to add it than when everybody thinks that they have him figured out? (Granted, the twist could be in why he loses the eye, instead of for knowledge like Odin did.)

Onto the Daughter of the Nine Moons theory. The only thing I have to say on this regard, is that if you'll do more research on other myths and what they have to say about a "left eye" you'll discover that in almost all the myths and legends of almost all the cultures, the left eye had symbolized the Moon, and the right eye the Sun. This could be a possibility considering that Mat's role in life is already based on a myth. I haven't gotten to book ten yet, but all I know is that the completion of the male part of a marriage is to say that the woman is your wife three times (of which Mat did.) What I'm saying is that just because the snakes said "to marry the daughter of the nine moons" doesn't mean he'll stay married to her. So really, saying "to marry the daughter of the nine moons" and "to give up half the light of the world to save the world" is not the same thing. During Mat's first three questions, they pretty much gave him the same answer three times, only a little more grim (and vague) then the previous, and since he defied the laws of the ter-angreal and got to ask four questions instead of three, and got six answers instead of three, I really doubt the snakes would care if they gave him not-so-fair answers. My qualm about this is that there's been so many references of Mat placing his own left eye on a balance scale, that to be something like giving up the Daughter of the Nine Moons isn't as obvious as it should be - I feel like it's going to be something blatantly obvious, in bright neon letters fleshing across the page. But this, I think, is the only promising theory in which the eye-on-a-balance scale isn't taken literally.

And onto my favorite one, the one I am really hoping will happen and the one that has me twitching with anxiety... that Mat is an ignorant spy for the Dark One. The facts were mentioned in this post, but to sum them up: We never saw what happened with Mat's dreams, except for two. (1) Rand had dreamt of seeing three mini-statues: one with a wolf, one with a ruby-capped dagger, and one with a heron marked blade. He and Perrin never touched the carvings, but Mat says he picked up the one with the dagger. This shows that if anyone would be the one to touch something (or drink something, going with the wine-theory) in a dream with Ba'almzaom, it would be Mat. (Another thing, as soon as that dream occured, and Mat picked up the dagger, Ba'alzamon knew what Rand and Perrin looked like too, when it was only Mat who had picked up the statue.) And (2) he said that Ba'alzamon took his eyes. We also know that he definitely betrayed Rand in the alternative lives (which if you'll notice, always turned out - more or less - the same as in real life (Ingtar still became a darkfriend, Ingtar still hunted but never blew the horn, and Rand still went crazy and channeled.)) And in the The Great Hunt Rand seemed far too worried that Mat might accidentally betray him (which is odd, because there was nothing to say why Rand would all of a sudden think that. I always thought it seemed a little out-of-place...) and then, not only that, we get Mat's reaction after the Portal Stone - "Rand, you know I would never tell anyone about-about you. You have to believe that!" I also favor this theory because Mat, of all the characters, is the most mysterious. We knew who Rand was by the end of book one; same with Perrin, but just to be generous, let's say book two. By book 3 we knew what Egwene and Nynaeve were, and what they were capable of doing. Mat... it's been ten freaking books and we still don't know who he is. Don't you think it's really ironic that during the two books where Mat never had a pov shift - Mat the wastrel, and who keeps more secrets than anyone else - that when we finally do see what's going on in his head... he can't remember any of it?

Satin alEllien Moonsong: 2004-10-03

Hey drekan, great theory man, just a few things to add in reponse to others comments.

A lot of emphasis seems to have been put on Mat being the one to control the Seanchan but it says in the Prophecies that rand will 'bind the nine moons to serve him' which, to me at least, seems to more than imply that Rand will do it by himself without any aid from Mat.

Tears this apart or support it or whatever, quite frankly i couldn't give a f***, I've told you what i think and I'll be keeping a close eye on this theory.

MatCauthon: 2005-05-14

I think giving up half the light of the world is that he will end up moving to Seanchan after the last battle.

He's to marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons and they have to live somewhere. Since she is an heir to the Seanchan throne they'll go back there to live.

When they marry the Seanchan will help in the last battle and possibly holt their move back to Randland.

The price for this will be that Mat will have to go to Seanchan after.

Heron: 2005-05-15

I don't know if anyone has said it before (I haven't seen it) but following the Mat-Odin parallel, Mat MUST die at the last battle. My guess is that Perrin (or somebody else linked to wolves) is going to kill him, too. I support the eye theory, but if Jordan wants to break the Odin parallel anywhere, I hope it's at Tarmon Gaidon.

Traveller: 2005-09-12

I support the eye thing, but just want to say that heronblade has a great notion of light representing knowledge and Mat having to give up all the extra knowledge has has, I mean he really hates it , doesn't he?

I do also like the original theory by Drekan, but I think the eye thing is most probable- Mat, Rand, Perrin all have dreams of their eyes being plucked out by ravens, but Rand is protected by the ability to channel, and Perrin by his affinity with the wolves(in his dream it specifically states that his LEFT eye was plucked out, then the wolves tell him he will be safe when he accepts, then he attacks the Whitecloaks like a wolf himself, and he sees Hopper with his LEFT eye scratched out by ravens etc). OK, I thought I'd just share that part of my theory from you, because I don't think Mat accepted the wine as he tells his dream to Thom in Baerlon while Rand listens, and Rand notes that it is extremely similar to his, and in the dream Rand refuses the wine, so he would think it a large difference if Mat accepted it.

Yaga Shura: 2005-09-12

" don't think Mat accepted the wine as he tells his dream to Thom in Baerlon while Rand listens, and Rand notes that it is extremely similar to his, and in the dream Rand refuses the wine, so he would think it a large difference if Mat accepted it. "

Unless Mat knows he screwed up and doesn't want to admit it. He's hardly the fessing up type, is he? (not saying i think he did take the wine, as it would be out of character, just that I don't think this makes good evidence)

snakes-n-foxes: 2005-09-13

Hi all.

I liked this theory at a glance, a new twist on giving up half the light of the world. But in the end, I'm for Mat giving up his eye to save the world.

The prediction "To give up half the light of the world to save the world" has 3 elements in it :

1. To give up

2. Half the light of the world

3. To save the world

Anything that doesn't fulfil those 3 elements doesn't fulfil the prophecy.

1. To give up - to 'give up' is a conscious choice, which rules out:

-'accidently' losing half the light of the world ie. losing an eye to a fireworks accident

-'actively creating' half the light of the world eg. drowning the other half in darkness, or killing another woman

...anything less than a conscious choice to 'lose' something, is NOT 'to give up'

2. Half the light of the world - was always going to have a figurative meaning - so far it 'could' mean :

-Mat's eye

-knowledge

-DotNM

-Rand (the creators champion)

-moving to Seanchan

-killing another woman

-Perhaps some other meaning

Of those known interpretations listed above, only Mat's Eye, and the DotNM can be quantitively 'calculated' to be Half the light of the world.

3. 'To save the world'. Nothing less than 'Saving the World' will fulfil this prophecy.

So what can 'to save the world mean':

-we can rule out war - wars have been fought over for millenium without dooming the world (which rules out - with regards to this phrophecy - Mat returning to Seachan after TLB)

In fact, the ONLY way to 'Save the World' is to prevent one of two things happening:

- the world being wiped out; or

- the world being taken over by the DO

There doesn't appear to be any figurative interpretations of 'to save the world'

Any fulfilment of this prophecy must achieve all these 3 elements.

--------------------------------------

With Regards to any other interpretation of this prophecy, apart from Mat losing an eye...that would make the following visions/dreams a separate 'phrophecy'...which would then also need to be explained:

Min's vision (EoTW):

-Mat with his eye on a balance scale

Egwene dreams :

-Mat with his Eye on a scale

-Mat with blood running down his face, and she couldn't see his eyes (for the brim of the hat, or a bandage, can't remember)

For the theory that Mat will pluck his eye out, because it is being used by the DO (or Moridin) to spy on Rand...I REALLY like this theory...but...he could just blindfold himself...there is no need at all for him to pluck his eye out. If it's argued that his Eye has a homing beacon (that'd be an odd argument)...he Drank Wine..which would make all of him a homing beacon.

For the 'He'll give his eye to save Morraine' theory...how is Morraine going to save the world ? What is it that she can do/knows, that no one else does ? That simply can't be answered.

So where am I going with all this?

The last question that has to be answered about the 'Mat giving up his eye' theory is...where and to whom ?

To my way of thinking, there is only one place where (and to whom) he would be able to trade his eye for some sort of gain...and that's the realm of the Snakes-n-Foxes...the Tower of Ghenjei.

But for what he trades his eye for...I don't think there's enough information to establish that yet.

Darkelve: 2005-12-16

What if destroying his left eye was a way to beat the snakes&foxes at their own tricks? E.g. they ask something of Mat, perhaps a price he can or will not pay, but when he takes out his eye he breaks the rules and it becomes possible.

Theoryland of the Wheel of Time

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