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ind Traps and Grey Men

by Fade: 2003-04-04 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: Miscellaneous Theories

When Moggy was put in her mind trap, and she had her little introduction to Moridin, she explained how that if your mind trap was destroyed, you became a living zombie:


"Breaking a Mindtrap did not require much more pressure than he was using. ... the part of her that was her would be seperated; she would still see with her eyes and hear with her ears, taste what crossed her tongue and feel what touched her, but helpless in an automaton that was utterly obedient to whoever held the cour'souvra." aCoS ch 25, pg 535.

the other day, i suddenly realized that this sounds a lot like the descriptions of the way Grey men are. could it be possible that Grey men were people put into mindtraps (Grey men as we know are referred to as "the soulless" because of their distinctive lack of a soul. they also seem to have a single minded nature to finish their mission or die trying.), and after they had served their purpose, they were simply made into mindless, soulless slaves?
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2003-04-11

This is an interesting idea Fade. It sounds like the mind trap is connected to the soul and this could be the way the DO takes souls out of bodies...like those of the grey men. I really don't have anything to support this or to go against it so hopefully others may have some ideas.

2

Great Lord of the Dark: 2003-04-11

I'd say something similar, but slightly different is used to give Grey men their "unnoticeability."

But aren't Grey men those who were so dedicated to the Shadow they were given this gift? Yet they're under Carridin, Shiaine and Alviarin. Shiaine the assassin in particular seems like a great Grey man candidate, so why is she a just a darkfriend. Who outranks who here?

3

Callandor: 2003-04-11

It sounds like a good idea, except that Ive always thought that the distinction between Gray Men and a broken Mindtrapped person was that if the Mindtrapper broke the Mindtrap then the person that had been Mindtrapped would become the trappers slave. The Grey Men seem to be servents just for the shadow.

Ive always thought it was a cool way for Rand to get 2 Forsaken under his control that way ;-).

4

Rand-althor: 2003-04-11

I believe i remember a passage that said that Grey men gave their souls, not had them taken, and from what we have seen, mindtraps are something that nobody with any intellegence at all would chose for themselves. But i agree that the description of Grey men, and people with broken mindtraps sounds very similar. Maybe it has something to do more with breaking the mindtraps themselves to become grey men?

5

The-True-Dragon: 2003-04-11

I just wanna say that isnt it possible that the forsaken that find the grey men put mind traps on them then break them to cause complete obedience

Just a thought

6

The Leveler: 2003-04-12

But Moggy was thinking "there were some things that could only be done here, and some that could only be done to those who could channel". THe principle was porobably the same but they are different things. Besides, what was left of her soul Moggy still had.

7

Dorindha: 2003-04-12

Moggy's description of what would happen if it broke sounds more like being under permanant compulsion, whereas the Grey men give their souls willingly to serve the shadow. It says somewhere about that "sacrifice" - and that men are more likely than women to make it. Do grey men even have a thought process?

8

araqyl: 2003-05-16

No quotes here, but my overall impression from every encounter with Grey Men is that they were DFs who took the step beyond, and gave their souls to the DO now (rather than when they die) in return for their ability to avoid detection despite cover or lack of it. I can't recall this ever being mentioned, but I got the impression that it was more to do with myrddraal and shadows than any other process of the DO.

9

Rhodric: 2003-07-01

and what does the DO do with these souls that are given to him? does he eat them?

actually i suppose the DO could find many uses for souls: churning out trollocs and halfmen. put human soul in shadowspawn body = two minions for the price of one. (greyman and trolloc).

10

illuvatar7: 2003-08-12

Grey Men and broken mind-trap people are different. I believe mind-traps only work on people who can channel, a'dam style, based on Mog's quote. Similarly, mind-traps can only be fitted at the Bore: Mog remarks she dragged several Aes Sedai from the AOL down there herself for that very purpose. I hardly think the DO would want a line of Darkfriends tramping into his mountain to become Grey, do you? The Grey Man process more likely occurs in the presence of a Chosen, a Myrdraal, or in TAR if the DO/Ba'alzamon pulls the person in. I also think the result of a mind-trap being broken is different: the person who loses his/her soul that way is more likely to become a vegetable than another kind of servant of the shadow.

11

mb: 2008-09-19

The glossary of Lord of Chaos tells that Gray Men voluntary give there souls to the Dark One.

The coursouvra thing can only be done at the Pit of Doom and with a channeler.