even Wonders of Randland?
by solomonrex: 2003-04-15 | Not yet rated
Bayle Domon:
"The Breaking left a thousand wonders behind, and there been half a dozen empires or more since, some rivaling Artur Hawkwing's, every one leaving things to see and find. Lightsticks and razorlace and heartstone. A crystal lattice covering an island, and it hums when the moon is up. A mountain hollowed into a bowl, and in its center, a silver spike a hundred spans high, and any who come within a mile of it, dies."
Here's my list of the current wonders of the world and why:
1. White Tower- Really tall, really big.
2. White Bridge- well it's only a bridge, I think. But a really spindly one.
3. Tower of Ghenjei- unbroken steel that never rusts and probably contains the Aelfinn and Eelfinn.
4. (formerly wonderous) Rhuidean- covered with perpetual mist to hide angreal in the middle of the desert
5. (formerly a wonder) Eye of the world- Magically appearing/moving home of the Green Man in the Blight
6. Crystal Lattice Island- hums when the moon is up
7. Silver Spike- kills all within a mile.
Well, the size and scale of the last two make them worth speculation. We have a couple of important things still unaccounted for in our story. One of them is the second most powerful male angreal.
From Daishan's 'Only two more powerful' discussion:
"...she [Lanfear] added, grimacing at Callandor. "There are only two more powerful that a man can use. One at least, I know, still exists..." (TITLE: Shadow Rising, CHAPTER: 9 - Decisions)
Lanfear is familiar with the Choden Kal still existing, and at one point, she pulls Rand away from the male Choden Kal. So we know one of the two more powerful.
Daishan (who posted the above quote) made a point that the angreal generally are more powerful depending on their size. But that's only partly true. With Angreal, form follows function. So Callandor is meant to be used as a weapon, it is shaped like a sword. A dream ring has a twist to make the edge continuous. Rods are for oaths? Chairs are for compulsions, gateways go somewhere. And Sa'angreals that simply magnify the OP are shaped like people- the Choden Kal are human shaped, Rand's Fat Little man and Egwene's small woman statue are all in the same class. Callandor may in fact be more powerful than the Choden Kal for certain weaves- such as seeking out and destroying Trollocs in Tear. The statue that Daishan describes in his post is only two feet tall. It might still be more powerful than anything else, but a two foot statue is awkward to carry around, too small for a remote and a whole lot smaller than the Choden Kal.
The silver spike could be that angreal. Perhaps it was a failed angreal, and that's why it kills anyone within a mile. Maybe even an attempt to make one of the Choden Kal that failed. Perhaps a different huge Angreal entirely. I think this is unlikely, since the broken angreal previously (don't have the quote) didn't hurt those who couldn't channel and didn't hurt anyone until touched. The dream rings, for example, just gave Egwene a headache- and only when she used it. Or perhaps it is another weapon angreal like Callandor, only more focused. It presumably needs a Choden Kal- style remote (after all, how could anyone get close enough to use it?).
Finally, my far out theory is that one of these is the DO's prison (which we don't know where or how it exists). Everything in RJ's world has a physical manifestation, except the Creator (so far). The OP can be stored and touched (remember tEotW?), Dreams can inflict wounds, evil can be seen physically (usually a skinny innkeeper). While Shayol Ghul is often thought of as where the DO is, in fact is it only described as a 'Thinness in the pattern'.
From The Strike at Shayol Ghul:
"Travel to Shayol Ghul , the one place on earth where what has been called "a thinness in the Pattern" makes the Bore detectable,"
So it's possible that the Do's prison is a physical one located on the planet and that it's not at Shayol Ghul. The spike might kill everyone on purpose- a guard set up in the AOL or previous age to keep people away. The forsaken would still have to travel to SG, not the spike, because the pattern has a thinness in SG, not at the 'actual' prison. Or, on the other hand, the lattice may be a prison- a lattice would act as a cage. Form follows function- the spike is deadly and may be/have been a weapon and the lattice may hold something against its will, or does something with the moon.
Any other ideas?
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-04-21
I don't know what to say beyond the fact that he was imprisoned outside of the Pattern (if I am not mistaken), so how is his prison in the real world but outside of the Pattern? We are given no indication that such is the case. The thinness in the Pattern could exist anywhere...but we are only aware of one thinness. I guess there could be more than one point of thinness.
2
Rand-althor: 2003-04-21
If one of these had to be the prison, I would say it would have to be Crystal Lattice Island. The fact that it hums while the moon is out, gives the idea that it only gets its power in night (or darkness). There is also a comment made in passing about twilight being the most dangerous, because the light has not taken hold yet. If that is so, then night may not be as dangerous, but the darkness would be stronger. So the Dark one could be gaining strength at night, and would be able to make a stronger attack on the seal over the bore, causing the vibration of its physical manefestation.
3
Dorindha: 2003-04-21
I think the reason why twilight is dangerous is not an indication that dark is worse. In lots of mythology etc, twilight (and dawn, but not as much) is the worst time of day because it symbolises the uncertainty when the world is unsure whether it is day or night.
I think there is something particularly bad about crossroads at twilight...
As for the theory itself, I have no idea, but I'd forgotton about these "wonders" - where are they?
4
solomonrex: 2003-04-22
Sorry, the Bayle Domon reference (first quote) is from the Eye of the World, ch 24 'Flight down the Arinelle'. They had just seen the Tower of Ghenjei, I think. It always captures my attention every time I read this passage. It seems the Tower of Ghenjei will be part of the story, but I don't know for the rest.
5
Anubis: 2003-04-23
crossroads of twilight... the path that is chosen will determine if the sun is rising or setting, it is unclear and could go either way.
6
forge: 2003-04-25
is it possible that bayle domon, a disreputable sailor at best, might have been mocking some excited farm boys with some old sailers yarns? i would think that if the spike or the lattice existed it might have been mentioned later on in an aes sedai or forsakens conversation.
7
heridfel: 2003-04-27
The spire is described in the prologue of Path of Daggers.
"To the south, however, lay what had made this spot a good
choice for meeting. A slender spire like a column of gleaming golden lace lay slanting and partly buried in the bare
hillside, a good seventy paces of it showing above the treetops. Every child in the Black Hills old enough to run off
leading strings knew of it, but there was not a village inside four days' travel, nor would anyone come within ten miles
willingly. The stories of this place spoke of mad visions, of the dead walking, and death at touching the spire.
Ethenielle did not consider herself fanciful, yet she shivered slightly. Nianh said the spire was a fragment from the Age of Legends, and harmless."
Obviously although Bael Domon was speaking truth the spires reputation was in fact apocryphal. I personally think RJ put the spire in on purpose because there was so much wild speculation about it online. Further I think it is very clear that the Dark Ones's prison is outside the pattern. Otherwise why would a thinness in the pattern make any difference at all.
I'm sorry what was I talking about, next time don't bring the girl she's muck to pretty.
8
araqyl: 2003-05-12
I think the hollow bowl mountain with the silver spike is a surviving radio telescope (or equivalent), possibly from before the AoL. It's possible that it was under water (or otherwise inaccessible) until the Breaking turned everything upside down.
Speaking of Wonders, I think the Ogier are a living wonder - they are the only non-human sentient race that is not a construct of some form. Even the Nym (eg, Green Man) were constructs, as are all of the Shadowspawn.
9
Lewin: 2003-06-13
When you talk about that powerful angreals do you mean the one they you could see being digged up in The great hunt i think it was? cause thats the most powerful one, and it was defenitly higher then 2 foot. Perhaps you refer to the connector that Rand got that can connect him to the huge statue. It think it was the Saidin-statue you could see in tGH and the saidar-statue is on Tremalking if im not misminded. These i think could also be called wonders since they are the strongest sar'angreals ever made and with these two togheter you could even challange the creator (atlest according to Lanfear).
10
meradin: 2003-08-09
araqyl, what about the Aelfinn and Eelfinn... they aren't constructed.
11
Anubis: 2003-08-09
the nym were constructed? and what about those guys living under mountains with there heads in their bellies. dont doubt the word of noal... they exist i tell ya!
12
notsoevil1: 2003-08-09
Are the tower of ghenji(sp?) and this silver spike one in the same?. And what is this crystal lattice island?
13
mako0424: 2003-12-24
Wasn't the Crystal Lattice island Tremalking, and the sa'angreal could explain the humming, and i dsitinctly remember something about some woman on the island saying to herself, finally the Illusion is over or something. I think this short passage is very important. but i dont know how.
And i love the idea of a radio telelscope being the silver lance and the hollow mountain.
14
solomonrex: 2003-12-24
"To the south, however, lay what had made this spot a good choice for meeting. A slender spire like a column of gleaming golden lace lay slanting and partly buried in the bare hillside, a good seventy paces of it showing above the treetops. Every child in the Black Hills old enough to run off leading strings knew of it, but there was not a village inside four days' travel, nor would anyone come within ten miles willingly. The stories of this place spoke of mad visions, of the dead walking, and death at touching the spire.
Ethenielle did not consider herself fanciful, yet she shivered slightly. Nianh said the spire was a fragment from the Age of Legends, and harmless."
Considering that the dead walking have appeared in the series, I think this is almost certainly an angreal of some sort. It may still be harmless, but similar to the crystal columns of Rhuidean.
15
Anubis: 2003-12-24
the time of illusions is over. i take it to mean that the shadow will stop manipulating events from the... well the shadows and take a more direct and obvious role in the world.
16
kainis: 2003-12-24
The illumination of the female Sa'Angreal tied to the female Choden Kal is part of the Sea Folk prophecies of the Coramoor, the Jendai Prophecy it is called. That is where the "time of illusion" reference comes from. The Tower of Ghen Jei is mentioned by Birgitte as being a physical gateway between the realms of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn. Moiraine is trapped in the realms of the Eelfinn, and since the ter'angreal that links that realm with the real world is broken, the Tower of Ghen Jei must be how Moiraine will rejoin Rand. Birgitte knows much on this, but she doesn't know she can be of help. Thom's letter MUST contain some detail of Moiraine's rescue for two reasons:
1. Moiraine was told as one of her answers from the Aelfinn that she would need to see Thom again, because she makes the bargain with Thom the next day that she will see him again, but to date she hasn't. If she didn't know, she could not have said it because of the Oaths.
2. Egwene dreamed Thom pulling Moiraine's jewel out of a fire. The fire must be the fire that consumed the doorframe ter'angreal, so Thom will pull Moiraine from the realms of the Eelfinn.
As an aside, Min also references "the one viewing that never came true" concerning Moiraine, though she doesn't say what it was. It has to come true, whatever it is, because they always do.
17
Alanna Mosvani: 2003-12-25
Several people have suggested that our real world is one of the seven ages - maybe these artifracts are something from our world - the lattice could be some NASA research thing, the spire could be radioactive.
In response to Dorindha saying "there is something bad about crossroads at twilight" - Darkhounds are supposed to be the worst at crossroads at twilight.See page 194, CoT,hardback.
18
PepperjackCandy: 2004-02-01
I like the bowl-and-spire as radiotelescope idea. Especially since radiofrequency radiation is a lower-frequency version of microwave radiaton (3 kHz - 300 MHz for rf, 300 MHz - 300 GHz for mw). People can get serious burns from poorly-maintained radio station transmitting towers, for example.
And I might have bought the idea that Domon was yanking their chains, if Domon didn't have a sizable collection of antiques, artifacts, cuendillar, etc.
19
Nine Moons: 2004-12-11
Okay, I've listed all seven of your wonders, and we'll go over their purposes and how likely it is that the Dark One is imprisoned there.
1. White Tower- Aes Sedai School and Headquarters. If he's imprisoned there, the series is gonna end in tragedy.
2. White Bridge- Purpose unknown, besides obvious, but nonetheless pretty doubtful.
3. Tower of Ghenjei- The main entrance to the Aelfinn, Elfinn world. No way.
4. Rhuidean- built to hold the ter/sa'/angreal the Da'shain Aiel were entrusted with. No.
5. Eye of the world- built to give the D.R. some pure saidin to begin with.
6. Crystal Lattice Island- is where the most powerful female sa'angreal (hopefully). No.
7. Silver Spike- radio antennae. Put in place to look for aliens (got a reply, met some Ogier, etc.) Again, no.
20
Saidar Haran: 2006-04-11
**To the south, however, lay what had made this spot a good choice for meeting. A slender spire like a column of gleaming golden lace lay slanting and partly buried in the bare hillside, a good seventy paces of it showing above the treetops. Every child in the Black Hills old enough to run off leading strings knew of it, but there was not a village inside four days' travel, nor would anyone come within ten miles willingly. The stories of this place spoke of mad visions, of the dead walking, and death at touching the spire.**
Clearly stated that this spike is gold. Not the silver spire and bowl from Domon's speech. Silver spire hasn't appeared yet.
**6. Crystal Lattice Island- is where the most powerful female sa'angreal (hopefully). No.**
Female Choedan Kal is on Tremalking. Crystal Lattice Island is different.
21
mako0424: 2006-04-11
I think the giants with their faces in their bellies do exist, i don't doubt the word of Noal/Jain Farstrider.
and i think there in the land of Shara. but chances are their gonna be fighting on the Shadow's side during Tarmon Gai'don.
I don't know if the seven wonders should include the whtie TOwer though, its constuction is similar to Caemlyn and other Ogier built places.
