ashadar and Fain
by Rand-althor: 2003-12-01 | Not yet rated
OK I found this on Wotmania and not here, so im submitting it.
NOTE: This is not my work, this was posted on wotmania by geoff_mc under the title Rand, the Ways, and Machin Shin, none of this is mine, so i take no credit for it.
Rand and company travelled the Ways in TEotW with Padan Fain/Mordeth following. In TGH, Rand opens the Waygate in Cairhien only to find Machin Shin waiting at the portal and trying to come out, despite the fact that it could not leave the Ways at Fal Dara. When Rand and company go to Stedding Tsofu to use the Waygate there, once again, Machin Shin is waiting. Why?
When our heroes left the Waygate near Fal Dara in TEotW, Fain was close behind them, but we know he didn't escape before Machin Shin covered the entrance. Did it then just leave a tasty morsel like Fain alone? I don't think so. Machin Shin caught Fain, but unlike the soulless Ogier we meet in TGH, Fain has two souls residing in one body, and one of those souls managed to destroy the Shadow in Aridhol. (Though Aridhol died as a result.)
In addition, Fain's soul had been altered by the Dark One, turning him into a hound to follow Rand. If Machin Shin devoured Fain's soul (Mordeth and Fain were so intermixed that losing one of the souls would not seriously effect either 'conciousness') and it incorporated the 'Hound' into itself, would it not actively seek out its target, Rand?
The evidence for this lies in the first two times we actually 'see' Machin Shin. TGH, "A Message From the Dark", pg 474 (paperback), "...And in the wind a thousand insane voices seemed to cry, ten thousand, overlapping, drowning each other. Rand could make out some of them, though he tried not to." Then following this, "...And worst of all, a whispering thread through all the rest. Al'Thor. Al'Thor. Al'Thor."
Why would Machin Shin know Rand? Because Fain knew Rand. With the thousand, ten thousand, overlapping voices that were all the souls that Machin Shin had devoured and incorporated into itself. Why would it be guarding two different Waygates that Rand tried to use? Because Fain could feel and follow Rand. It would also explain why Fain invited Rand to follow, expected him to be right behind him when he arrived at Falme and told High Lord Turak that Rand, "cannot be more than a day or two behind me." TGH pg. 498 (paperback). Fain didn't set Machin Shin to guard against Rand's coming, he wanted Rand to follow. Machin Shin, with part of Fain's soul was trying to find Rand.
It would also explain the difference between the behavior seen at the two Waygates in Fal Dara and Cairhein. At the first, before the 'Hound' was introduced to Machin Shin, it sat at the Waygate but didn't try to pass. At the second, with its 'target' right there, it tried to reach out and kill Rand.
As a result, Rand can no longer use the Ways, but he can make it safer for others by simply sitting next to a closed Waygate and keeping Machin Shin there. Unfortunately, because the Ways were only used by Perrin after that, we cannot know if Machin Shin is still seeking Rand, or if any of this is only conjecture. The only way to prove or disprove this theory is for Rand to try reentering a Waygate, and with Traveling, I doubt it'll happen.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-12-17
Frenzy for Tamyrlin
I like it, but I can think of one fly in the ointment. When Moiraine explains her interrogation of Fain in Fal Dara, she mentions Machin Shin fleeing from Fain. (I don't have the quote, and can't look it up right now without using up Tamyrlin's searches) That one quote can either validate or kill this theory, depending on Moiraine's interpretation of the Machin Shin-Fain meeting.
But I like the concept that Machin Shin picked up the Rand-hounding tendencies and used them independently, since it would explain Fain's lack of knowledge as to why Rand didn't immediately follow him. But whether or not Machin Shin consumed all or part of Fain's soul (or souls, if you believe that, which I don't) is undetermined.
2
Korell: 2003-12-18
It has been some time since i posted and have not been able to read the page for a while but i am back
Tam is right Moiraine does say that Mach shin fled from Fain but i still think your idea has some merrit perhaps what if Mach Shin attacked fain but then got a taste of somthing it did not like so i fled from fain at that point but some of the taint that is within fain attached itself
Also i dont belive that Fain has 2 souls his 1 soul has been so corupted though that it has many aspects to it stemming from the DO and from the taint of Arihdol fain is just insane the only char in the books that i belive might have multiple souls is Slayer with the whole luc/isam thing
3
Rand-althor: 2003-12-19
Another fact to support this is how Fain was forced to follow them no matter the concequences (very little food, run untill he faints and begin running again as soon as he can get up) but in the second book, he steals the the horn, and not only does he not follow Rand, he runs away from him. This obviously means he get to keep part of the DO's gift, without the penalty (can feel Rand's presence, but not bound to follow him)
4
Anubis: 2003-12-21
well mashadar eats souls... and the black wind eats souls... so they could eat eachothers sould till they gave up and realized it was pointless.
5
Korell: 2003-12-22
Actually Mashadar and the Black wind are the same if i remember correctly but i think we all know what you mean and you make certainly a good point (even if i am wrong about the names) Whats in Ahridol does take souls and so does the Black wind i think this makes a good point but i dont think Fain takes souls however it could have afforded him a certain protection against the Black wind
6
Shadar Darei: 2003-12-22
Neat theory but I definately think that if Machin Shin had taken one of Fains souls he would have killed him too. I you remember in EOTW(i think) they here Machin Shin "talking" and it basically says how nice it is to skin people alive and hear their screams so it definately wouldn't have left Fain alive after taking a soul
7
Rand-althor: 2003-12-23
but possibly the presence of Moredeth battles Machin Shin (assuming that Machin Shin is of the dark one, then the 2 of them would be opposed) so that would be why Machin Shin fled.
8
Callandor: 2003-12-23
**Actually Mashadar and the Black wind are the same if i remember correctly**
No, they are different creatures.
9
Korell: 2003-12-24
Thanks Callandor i got my M's mixed up i was reading Mashadar but thinking Machin Shin thanks lol
10
kainis: 2003-12-24
This gets fairly lengthy, but here are my theories on the subject.
Aridhol was a happy and prosperous place up until Artur Hawkwing's time. Aridhol died when Mordeth came, he caused the city to turn against itself, corrupting the souls of everyone in the city. Everyone dies, and Mordeth's vindictive spirit remains in the ruins until he can convince someone not corrupted by his evil to lead him from the city. Which we know was Padan Fain.
Every pebble and grain of sand in Aridhol is infected with the corruption that destroyed it. Aridhol has a waygate. It stands to reason that the corruption of Aridhol would infect the waygate the same as it infected the city. About 300 years after the fall of Aridhol, the ways began to decay, my thoughts are that it was decaying the whole time, it just became vastly noticable at that point. The ways and the weaving that made them were being tainted. Why should the ways begin to noticably decay 2000 years after the Saidin that created them was tainted? It was more likely something more recent.
The source of Aridhol's corruption is Mordeth himself. His existence gave birth to that corruption, and his presence continues to corrupt those that come across his path. If Machin Shin is tied to Aridhol, then Mordeth is the source of the corruption of the Ways, and it would make sense that he could command or control it. Fain made Machin Shin bar Rand's way.
11
Dorindha: 2003-12-27
I posted something on this in another theory, but I think it says in the books that machin shiin and fain recognised the evil in each other, which is why he got out. My personal view is that Machin Shin took something of Fain, although I doubt is was a whole soul, and that is why the black wind now hunts Rand. It has part of Fain's essence.
I do agree that Fain was expecting Rand to follow him through the ways.
12
Callandor: 2003-12-27
**Aridhol was a happy and prosperous place up until Artur Hawkwing's time. Aridhol died when Mordeth came, he caused the city to turn against itself, corrupting the souls of everyone in the city. Everyone dies, and Mordeth's vindictive spirit remains in the ruins until he can convince someone not corrupted by his evil to lead him from the city. Which we know was Padan Fain.**
Aridhol fell during the Trolloc Wars, 1000 years before Hawkwing.
**Every pebble and grain of sand in Aridhol is infected with the corruption that destroyed it. Aridhol has a waygate. It stands to reason that the corruption of Aridhol would infect the waygate the same as it infected the city. About 300 years after the fall of Aridhol, the ways began to decay, my thoughts are that it was decaying the whole time, it just became vastly noticable at that point. The ways and the weaving that made them were being tainted. Why should the ways begin to noticably decay 2000 years after the Saidin that created them was tainted? It was more likely something more recent.**
The Ways darkened and started to decay during the War of the Hundred Years; 1000 years after Aridhol got corrupted,
**The source of Aridhol's corruption is Mordeth himself. His existence gave birth to that corruption, and his presence continues to corrupt those that come across his path. If Machin Shin is tied to Aridhol, then Mordeth is the source of the corruption of the Ways, and it would make sense that he could command or control it. Fain made Machin Shin bar Rand's way.**
They are not linked. They met out of a mutual courtesy, as per RJ's words. Machin Shin is a creature of the ways; Mashadar is a creature of Shadar Logoth.
13
Rand-althor: 2003-12-27
The problem with the idea that the corruption of Mordeth did the same to the Ways is the fact that if that was the case, the corruption would be able to seep back out, meaning that there would be many areas with a similar taint to that of Aridhol.
