and's Sickness while channeling
by Daekyras: 2004-10-08 | 2 out of 10 (2 votes)
Feel free to Flame...
Eye Of The World, chapter 21: Listen to the wind.
"You felt nothing special at the time, but a week or ten days later you had your first reaction to touching the True Source. Perhaps fever or chills that came and went suddenly and put you to bed, then disappeared after only a few hours. None of the reactions, and they vary, last more than a few hours. Headaches and numbness and exhilaration all mixed together, and you taking foolish chances or acting giddy. A spell of dizziness, when you tripped and stumbled whenever you tried to move, when you could not say a sentence without your tongue mangling half the words. There are others. Do you remember?"- Morraine to Nynaeve on the subject of her first touch of the true source and the after effects.
Nynaeve tells Morraine about Egwene's "break bone fever" and how she was cured and how Nynaeve suffered a week later.
The important bit-
"They were only reactions" Moiraine said patiently. "Each time, the reaction comes closer to the actual touching of the source, until the two happen almost together."
In the same book, chapter 33, The Dark Waits, Rand and Mat have their encounter with the Lady Darkfriend. You know, the girl with the dagger that left the wood smouldering? Rand was sick at the time. A fever that only lasted a few hours and was very strange. The boys put it down to the cold. But why would Rand, the robust one, and not Mat, under the influence of the Shadar Logoth dagger, be the one to suffer?
My theory is that Rand was suffering the ill effects of his first touching of the source several days earlier.
While leaving Emonds field Rand was so worried that egwene would fall behind that he touched the source and willed Bela to keep up with the others.
His sickness bears all the hall marks of what Moiraine described. A mystery sickness a week to ten days after touching the source.
The main part of this theory is that in the later books, when rand touches the source he feels dizzy, disorientated, sick and at the same time strangley exhilerated. Also like Moiraine described. I believe this is just the natural occurance of someone trying to learn the way of the source by himself. He has a modicum of tutelage of asmodean but the sickness had started already.
Basically, My theory is that Rand's sickness is due to his touching of the source, irrespective of the taint and nothing to do with the Dark One. It is a thing that effects non-trained power wielders. I don't think any of the Asha'man feel this as the are taught in the black tower.
As I said, have at the holes in this theory!
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1
Tamyrlin: 2004-12-09
(Frenzy for Tamyrlin)
If Rand's sickness was part of his learning to Channel, why is it happening months after his initial touching of the Source? Channeling sickness may be the easiest answer, but it doesn't add up with the timeline of circumstances.
2
jaellon: 2004-12-09
Like you quoted,
"They were only reactions" Moiraine said patiently. "Each time, the reaction comes closer to the actual touching of the source, until the two happen almost together."
The part you missed is where Moiraine goes on to explain that once they are that close together, they subsequently disappear.
A careful reading of tEotW will show that each time Rand channelled, his reactions were closer to his point of channelling than the time before. You mentioned two of them.
Before the end of tEotW, they do indeed disappear, and we don't hear anything else about reactions (excluding his revulsion from reaching through the taint), until, what was it, Lord of Chaos?
** The main part of this theory is that in the later books, when rand touches the source he feels dizzy, disorientated, sick and at the same time strangley exhilerated. **
The only time I remember him feeling exhilarated was when he was using Callandor, and that was explained as being a side effect from the sa'angreal not having the proper buffers. For the others, I wouldn't think that dizziness, disorientation, and sickness (i.e. nausea) could be synonymous with fever, chills, headaches, and numbness, some of the symptoms of channelling.
Good thought, but I think he is feeling the effects of the taint.
3
jason wolfbrother: 2004-12-09
there is a good chronicle of Rand's channeling sickness and the progression it takes here.
http://www.linuxmafia.com/jordan/2_nondark/2.1_taveren/2.1.4_rand-op-syn.html
basically you are correct that Rand was suffering from channeling sickness, but you attribute it to the wrong channeling. Rand suffered the dizziness, glee, acting foolish, etc. in Baerlon when he confronted the Whitecloaks. the second time he channeled, to loose the beam on Bayle Domon's ship, the effect was days later when he stood on top of the mast. the third channeling was when he called the lightning to escape from Gode. He was suffering the channeling sickness from that time when he was attacked by the lady in the barn. And the sickness only progresses and continues if you are not taught correctly. Rand was taught by Asmodean. Part of the reason he trapped Asmo instead of killing him outright.
4
Aendur: 2004-12-09
Then why isn't he yet? Moiraine said that when the channeling and the sickness occur silmulatenously, the channeler dies, didn't she?
On the other hand, Tamyrlin, that is the timeline for a woman. We have no idea the effect on a man.
5
Aiel Finn: 2004-12-09
How is Rand untrained. He was trained by Asmodean. Even so, I think that he overcame the Channeling sickness already. Otherwise he would have had it alot more in the books between tEotW and CoS. Also, the first time that any of this happens is in SL when the TP balefire and OP balefire cross. I think that this gave Rand a superdose of the Taint. Then later, when he cleanses the source, he get's another dose. This makes him sick as it would anyone. Remeber that those men who don't go mad just end up getting sick and later rotting away from the taint if they keep channeling.
6
Githraine: 2004-12-10
Rand's first channeling was to wash Bella's fatuige away. the reaction (I think 10 days later) was in Beralon with the white cloaks.
The reaction with Seaine (sp?) was to moving the boom on the Spray to knock the Trolloc aside.
I have seen very well done charts of every time Rand Channeled and when the reaction was, one in included in the total timeline at : http://www.users.bigpond.com/steven_cooper/wotchron.htm
7
Dorindha: 2004-12-10
It is more likely that Rand's reaction to his first touching was when he felt weird in Baerlon. I think this was a reaction to channelling though, but sometime later on the journey - was this after the lightning incident? I forget. The sickness is present the first few times an individual channels, getting closer and closer to the time of channelling. When they occur together, it stops.
8
amazinglarry: 2004-12-10
Rand clearly got sick from his first few times touching the source, but this happened and was over with in Eye of the World. There is a nice timeline of it available in the FAQ:
http://www.darkfriends.net/wheel/2_nondark/2.1_taveren/2.1.4_rand-op-syn.html
The sickness he begins suffering late in the series is definitely not the same as what he experienced early on. After the initial sickness in EoTW, he went through several months of not getting sick at all before the later sickness took effect. Because of this time gap, it is highly unlikely that the two are connected.
9
bigjellybeans: 2004-12-10
if the theory is true then Rnad probably would have shown signs of this while training with Asmodean. Would not Asmodean then reveal this to Rand?
10
Aiel Finn: 2004-12-11
What about the BIG hole where he has no problems with being sick through four books. This sickness doesn't start until the latter books, and he channeled a whole lot through all the books with no trouble since the first one.
11
Jane-Sedai: 2004-12-11
This could be possible, perhaps the taint affected the delay in him becoming sick. Or maybe this is because male chanellers learn in a different way. With females you can assess their possible strength, but you can not do this with males, their strength and increase in power use comes in sudden spurts, perhaps so to does their sickness with it.
12
Callandor: 2004-12-11
Months? Try years, Frenzy ;)
**The main part of this theory is that in the later books, when rand touches the source he feels dizzy, disorientated, sick and at the same time strangley exhilerated. Also like Moiraine described. I believe this is just the natural occurance of someone trying to learn the way of the source by himself. He has a modicum of tutelage of asmodean but the sickness had started already.**
All of Rand's sickness symptoms occured in book 1. Rand learned enough to survive from that point on, completely on his own. He was one of the lucky 1/4th (wonder why...).
And he was under Asmodean's teachings for at least 2 or 3 months; more then a modicum at the rate they were going at.
13
Aendur: 2004-12-12
Oh, and your time-frame for the sickness around the Lady DF is wrong. His first channeling, will Bela, caused the sickness in Baerlon (including the encounter with the Whitecloaks). It is his lightning-calling at Four Kings that left him sick against the Lady DF.
14
Kender: 2004-12-13
Ya, I pretty much guessed the same thing but I would go as far as saying that it isn't the first time either. On the boat, when they are fighting the trollocs there is the incident with the boom. The boom hitting the trolloc might have just been luck due to his ta'vereness except a couple of chapters later he plays at being an acrobat. Judging by his reaction I figure that it falls under the taking chances part of the reaction to touching the source. Yep.
15
Calebman: 2004-12-13
Remeber that male channeling and female channeling are different. What if women get sick in the beginning and men get sick after channeling for a while. What would Moraine know about male channeling. This could explain why things don't match up. c70
16
Lan: 2004-12-13
I was recently re-reading Winter's Heart and the thought occured to me that it seems that Rand's sickness really gets bad after he gets stabbed by Fain's dagger.
So, as a counter thought, I would put forth that his sickness is a result of the taint fighting mashadar within his own body while he holds the One Power.
(I wish I could give you references, but Im at sea right now and don't have those resources.)
17
Callandor: 2004-12-13
**TITLE: Eye of the World
CHAPTER: 21 - Listen to the Wind
"Those were only reactions," Moiraine said patiently. "Each time, the reaction comes closer to the actual touching of the Source, until the two happen almost together. After that there are no more reactions that can be seen, but it is as if a clock has begun ticking. A year. Two years. I know one woman who lasted five years. *Of four who have the inborn ability that you and Egwene have, three die if we do not find them and train them.* It is not as horrible a death as the men die, but neither is it pretty, if any death can be called so. Convulsions. Screaming. It takes days, and once it begins there is nothing that can be done to stop it, not by all the Aes Sedai in Tar Valon together."**
If they are untrained. Egwene and Nynaeve are both wilders, and both were part of the 1/4th who got enough of the control by themselves to not die, and then were properly trained. The same thing is with Rand.
18
logains glory: 2004-12-14
No, I don't think that Asmodean would have told Rand about the sickness even if he did know. Remember, he was still a Forsaken. He was not Rand's friend, he just felt safer with him than out on his own. Remember, he was always regarded as the weakest of the Forsaken.
In response to the question, it's not likely that Rand's sickness is from touching the source without training. It's more likely that the sickness is from subjecting himself to the taint, crossing his balefire with True Power balefire, and the SL evil from the wound he received from Padan Fain.
19
Callandor: 2004-12-15
**Remeber that male channeling and female channeling are different. What if women get sick in the beginning and men get sick after channeling for a while. What would Moraine know about male channeling. This could explain why things don't match up.**
And why should it be different, other then men and women are different for somethings? We have no reason to assume that male reactions to being a wilder are any different then females; Rand fits this pattern perfectly in the first book, rest is suppostion, and wild at best.
20
jaellon: 2004-12-15
*Remeber that male channeling and female channeling are different. What if women get sick in the beginning and men get sick after channeling for a while. What would Moraine know about male channeling. This could explain why things don't match up. c70 *
Except that he clearly suffered from the exact symptoms that Moiraine describes as female channelling sickness.
While it's possible that men can get sick after channelling for a while (we don't know enough to say nay), I see no reason to suppose this. His entire sickness can be much more easily explained by the suggestion that he is suffering from the same thing all other taint-infected male channellers eventually suffer from.
21
lucyler1314: 2004-12-15
Remember that Rand doesn't start to feel sick when he tries to touch the source until PoD. Right before this, at the end of CoS, he crosses balefire with Moridin in Shadar Logoth and subsequently staggers, sees double, etc. I'm thinking this is probably the main reason for Rand's channeling sickness.
22
Aiel Finn: 2004-12-17
The interaction of his Shadar Mandarb wound and the Taint may very well be the cause of it. Remember that the Mahsadar wound is warded away from him, but you can only ward for one thing at a time. This may allow the taint to get in, but Mahsadar can't get out, however the effects of mashadar drawing the taint could cause the very strange channeling sickness Rand feels. However, his sickness does seem more like when he crossed BF streams with Moridin.
23
Aendur: 2004-12-17
*If they are untrained. Egwene and Nynaeve are both wilders, and both were part of the 1/4th who got enough of the control by themselves to not die, and then were properly trained. The same thing is with Rand.*
This is irrelvent, but Nyn was part of the 1/4th. Egwene's first channeling was guided by Moiraine on the way north through the Two Rivers. Or just north of the Taren, I forget. In either case, she was not a wilder.
24
Callandor: 2004-12-19
**This is irrelvent, but Nyn was part of the 1/4th. Egwene's first channeling was guided by Moiraine on the way north through the Two Rivers. Or just north of the Taren, I forget. In either case, she was not a wilder. **
Uh, no. You aren't classified as a wilder simply because you were shown how to channel at first; a person is a wilder because they will eventually channel on the own. It is innevitable that they will.
Otherwise, Elaida's comments, make absolutely no sense (not that they make much in the first place ;)):
**TITLE: Dragon Reborn
CHAPTER: 23 - Sealed
Elaida's face was as cold as her voice. "I did not want you to be brought forward tonight. Not because I feared what happened; no one could foresee that. *But because of what you are. A wilder."* Egwene tried to protest, but Elaida kept on, as implacable as a mountain glacier. "Oh, I know you learned to channel under Aes Sedai teaching, but you are still a wilder. A wilder in spirit, a wilder in ways. You have vast potential, else you would never have survived in there tonight, but potential changes nothing. I do not believe you will ever be part of the White Tower, not in the way the rest of us are, no matter on which finger you wear your ring. It would have been better for you had you settled for learning enough to stay alive, and gone back to your sleepy village. Fat better." Turning on her heel, she stalked away, out of the chamber.**
Being a wilder isn't something to lose by a first experience like a person's virginity. "Oops, where'd my wilder go?" No. A person is a wilder by the Pattern. Egwene, regardless of whatever Moiraine could do, would eventually channel with or without supervision -- that is a wilder. Moiraine just knew enough to guide her so she doesn't stand the chance of dying.
25
Frenzy: 2004-12-21
Callandor said: Uh, no. You aren't classified as a wilder simply because you were shown how to channel at first; a person is a wilder because they will eventually channel on the own. It is innevitable that they will.
uh, no Callandor, that's a channeler with a Spark, not a Wilder. A Wilder is technically someone not trained to channel by Aes Sedai. Nynaeve is a Wilder. Windfinders and Wise Ones are Wilders, in the Aes Sedai-centric view of the world, even though they are trained by their own channelers. Even damane are not wilders, as they are Sparkers who are captured and trained to channel. So, in spirit they are not wilders, spark or no spark.
Oh, and trusting Elaida's outlook of things? hehehehehehehehehe ;)
26
Aendur: 2004-12-21
Frenzy is right, you're confusing possession of the spark with being a Wilder. Elaida was simply expressing that she felt Egwene was a wilder in her fundamental NATURE, in OUTLOOK, not in technicality. s are born with the spark, but they aren't looked down on by bigoted AS as wilders unless they actually channeled prior to AS identification. Egwene is the only exception (judging from your quote), and that is just because Elaida doesn't like her.
27
terez: 2005-01-07
RJ said in an interview that something that was previously done in the series will prove to have a very bad effect in Book 11. I think this will be either the use of the Bowl of the Winds or the Balefire Stream-crossing. Bad effects: Rand's sickness, wards failing, wierdness around Ebou Dar.
Also, has anyone pointed out that Asmodean, like Moghedien with the girls, might not have trained Rand properly? The clock might have been ticking all this time.
I think this theory is still at least a possibility. There might be something missing in Rand's training.
28
Aiel Finn: 2005-01-11
A few things:
First, Asmodean wasn't the unwilling slave that Moggy was, he is the kind of person who only wants to be on the winning side. He supported Rand because he was winning and it was his only choice; he would want Rand trained well.
Second, there are a number of things that have happened before that can have bad concequences. Ewgene being captured, Logain leaving the BT, Melting the Female CK, Faile being captured, Alivarin's marking, the possiblities are endless.
29
Dragon Tamer: 2007-12-12
I believe that Rand's sickness has to have come from him crossing his balefire with Moridin in SL. Every time we have seen him channel afterwards he had the sickness if I recall correctly. What purpose this serves in the end? I have no idea. RJ wouldn't have put it in if it didn't serve some part of the final battle or the prophecies.
