oridin, Who's Side Is He On?
by Cauthoun: 2000-11-18 | Not yet rated
Ok this is a little far fetched, and unfortunately. I cannot quote all the exact passages in the books. We all know that Moridin is Ishmael's new incarnation, but I must now question I had early on in the books. Whose side in Ishmael really on? Think about it Ishmael was one of the greatest philosophers from the Age of Legends. He is the one who originally discovered that Rand/Lews Therin has been reborn to fight the Shadow multiple times. It has also be hinted at that it right after this discovery that Ishmael turned at a crucial time to become the betrayer of hope. Now let us look at Ishmael's plotting during the books. He has rarely ordered people to kill Rand, trying instead to turn him. At the same time he has never realy given a whole hearted attempt to do it. Think about it, before Rand learned to channel only Moraine and Lan were his defense. Ishmael knew how to travel, it would have been rather easy for him to have defeated Moraine and Lan and Kidnap Rand, Mat and Perrin. Then all he needed to do would be to use 13 Myrdraal and 13 Dark Sisters to turn Rand. Simply put Ishmael had enough chances to turn Rand if he had really wanted to, without the interference of the other chosen.
Now lets look at Moridin. He has ordered more often the killing of Rand, but his orders always leave Rand a big gap to get out of. Sending the Ashaman renegades to kill Rand was flawed because he knew Rand had Callandor. The attack on Rand at the end of Winter's Heart was also flawed because at the time Rand had enough power in him at that time to easily burn all 13 of the forsaken from the pattern all the way back to the Age of Legends. I think Ishmael/Moridin's long term goal is actually to keep Rand on his toes so that he will be able to fight the Last Battle.
You cannot rate theories without first logging in. Please
log in.
1
Tamyrlin: 2000-11-18
I understand why you are suspect of Ishamael's motivations because they have changed so many times. Ever since he returned as Moridin, and as Nae'blis, he seems intent on using his pawns to create chaos, and if they die, he doesn't care. The Forsaken would like to get eachother out of the running for Nae'blis. But, I don't know, is he stacking the deck so their eternal battle can continue...different.
2
Drekan: 2002-12-10
Was it Moridin who said a game is easy if you play both sides? (I'm re-reading and can't remember exactly atm). If so, he has already answered the question, he is on both sides and therefore is playing to his own agenda.
3
Darren: 2002-12-12
A better question would be "who is the Lord of Chaos?" When Moridin is told to "let the LOC rule," we always take it to mean Shai'tan, but it may well be the Dragon. But I digress... Moridin is definitely on the Dark One's side. The "double agent" issue addressed, specifically with his reference to the shah game as metaphorically applying to all his actions, only means that he is trying to CONTROL the actions of both sides, in the service of the Great Lord's (err, I mean...) agenda. It may be better said that he is the ONLY of the Chosen who has truly given himself over to Shai'tan, hence the only one drawing upon the True Power.
4
Callandor: 2002-12-27
In my opinion I always thought that the quote **Let the Lord of Chaos rule** meant that the Forsaken had to let Rand do his own thing and leave him alone cause he is following their plans.
5
Dedicated: 2003-02-04
I think Ishy has always played both sides to one degree or another. Ya see, Ishy believes himself to be the Shadow's champion (and the DO recently confirmed this by making him Nae'Blis). He is also a brilliant philosopher and one of the greatest of minds of what AOLers call the "height of civilization". Now being the Shadow's champion, what fun would it be if they just won in one sweeping stroke, instead of building up for years and years (3000 to be exact). Ishy could have had Rand killed many times, could have done it himself at the beggining of the series. He didn't because: A: Ishy had orders NOT to kill Rand from the DO B: Confronting the Dragon head on is usually a mistake (especially wielding Callandor. What were you thinking Ishy?)
So what I'm saying is that I totally agree. Ishy's keeping Rand on his toes so he can finally confront Moridin and the DO at the LB and Rand will actually give them a good fight. Now don't get me wrong, Ishy and the DO want to win, I just think they want a great opponent.
6
Anubis: 2003-02-04
I wonder. we know that the creator can lay the smack down on the dark one. It happened before, at least once. The odd thing is the existance of the dragon. I think that maybe the dark one can't break free, unless he defeats the creators champion, possibly with his own, possibly not. It fits the wierd ishy not killing rand thing.
7
DeathWalking: 2003-02-05
You say that they want a "great opponent" for the last battle...I don't think that can be the case at all. Sure, it is nice to have a good opponent when you play chess, hockey or boxing...but for the rule of the world and heavens? To control the Wheel of Time? I don't think that the Dark One and Ishy are looking for someone to give them a challenge. I don't know what the answer is, but the whole "let's build up our enemy so we can have a close call at the end" is dumb.
8
Callandor: 2003-02-05
The DO didn't want to kill Rand in the beginning because he saw the potential greatness of converting the Lights champion to the dark side.
The building up of a champion I think is bad, and would be a very dumb thing of the DO to do.
The DO has LIFTED the order of killing Rand since the "Forsaken Coffee Hour" in WH. I mean come on they were almost all converging on Rand while he cleansed the taint, if not for the Aes Sedai and Ashaman he would be toast.
Moridin is on the DO side but I think he's just loosing a little bit more of his sanity.
9
Dedicated: 2003-02-05
All right, I recant my statement about the DO wanting a great champion to fight against. However, the way the Forsaken approached Rand when he was cleaning the taint was idiotic on their part. When someone is holding that much OP, why would you go charging after them immediately without first finding out the situation. The Forsaken were routed as expected. Did they not think that Rand would have ways of defending himself? And where was Moridin through all of this? Nowhere to be found. He may have sent other Forsaken to investigate, but Moridin himself stayed far from the fray. He was seemingly the only one intelligent enough to remember that confronting the Dragon directly is NOT a good idea.
10
Callandor: 2003-02-15
The Forsaken didn't think Rand would have linked Ashaman and Aes Sedai. They thought that he would do it with one woman by themselves because they thought he might not realize the amount of power would be seen from all over the world.
Reason they went alone is they didn't have time to gather any BA, Trollocs, Fades, or anything like that. They were simply to Travel right to it and try to kill Rand. They didnt count on the Aes Sedai and Ashaman mainly because they knew Rand was in hiding alone. It was even Rands plan to do the clensing by himself and Nyneave, Cadsuane had to intervene there.
11
Dragons Shadow: 2003-02-16
Perhaps Moridin fully realized that if the DO wins then he (Moridin) would no longer be needed by the DO.
Shai'tan would rule directly and Moridin and the other forsaken would be betrayed.
Moridin lives for one purpose, to continue the battle. He did say something like "This time is different, this time there will be no rebirth". Ithink he was speaking not only of the Dragon, but also of himself. He wants the battle to continue eternally, even if it means becoming the "Betrayer of Hope" to the DO at a crucial moment - just as he did to the light in the AOL.
12
Lewin: 2003-07-12
I think Ishy is still loyal to the DO although he cares for his own interests alot (Why wouldn't he?) and want's Rand around for while longer to remove the other Forsaken from the race for Nae'blis.
13
juitzhead: 2003-07-13
what race? Moridin is Nae'blis. He leads, other Forsaken follow. I think that Moridin is just trying to twist events to his own advantage by playing both sides.
14
Zader: 2004-06-30
Any one out there ever seen the movie GroundHog Day.
I can hear now “What has that got to do with this”
It is about a man living the same day over + over + over again. He is the only one who knows he is living the same day over + over again. Everybody stays constant in their actions until he changes some of his own actions.
Sound familiar. Ishy is the only person in the series, (bar one)so far, who knows this. He is also aware of what he has done previously, in other ages. Why does he notturn Rand? Because he knows this won't work.
Not only are the Light bound by Prophesy, but the Dark are as well. All prophesy must be fulfilled.
Certain events must happen for the result to turn out right. Ishy has tried cheating before ie circumventing Prophesy and it hasn't worked. As an example,Ishy / Mordien POV when playing Sha'sha in LOC. He remembers wiping out all the pieces but the result was painful.
Further to (bar one)this leads to another question, is there a tie in between Herid Fel + Ishy. Why was Fel dismembered. Only Golham victim to be dismembered so far. Perhaps cover up Fel not really dead.
15
mb: 2008-09-17
If Moridin was on the side of the Light (or on his own side) for any amount of time, it would be doubtful if he would be allowed to use the True Power or be named Naeblis. And it would be doubtful that the Dark Lord would resurrect anyone that would not still serve him. So Moridin is on the dark side.
