1
Tamyrlin: 2002-11-09
I would really like to see you develop this idea more fully. There are some interesting parts to agelessness, oath rods, etc. that need to be delved into. For example, there is a difference, apparently, between stilling someone who has taken oaths, and having them remove or forsake previous oaths with the oath rod. So, Jordan may be telling us that, just as the Black Ajah forsake old oaths and take on new ones, similarly, the ageless look is not changed when what these Aes Sedai have done to the ones they are questioning. But, if you used an oath rod to get rid of all oaths you have sworn, would you still retain the ageless look, because you used an oath rod to do that? And if so, once they figure out stilling and returning a female to her full strength, then wouldn't you want to be stilled, breaking all connection to the oath rod, and have your stilling healed. You would loose the ageless look...but in the end, it stunts their age anyway.
2
dondigitalia: 2002-11-12
I agree with Tamirlyn. If you think about it, removing oaths with the oath rod is really just swearing another oath not to follow the original ones anymore. Which brings up another thought in my mind. I am going through my second read of POD and just happen to be at the part where Seaine and Pevara begin using the oath rod in their questioning. They brought up the question of swearing conflicting oaths on the rod. Could the pain associated with removing an oath be experienced from the swearing of any oaths that clash with each other?
3
oldmanfish: 2002-11-14
I can't decide on this one. My gut instinct is unswearing would allow the look to fade as gradually as it appeared. But when I think about it, I suspect I'm wrong. I see no reason why it couldn't fade in just a few hours. I'll just sit here on this comfy fence 'til I RAFO, but I think I've almost talked myself into the "few hours" camp.
One point I must make, though. Removing the Oaths is absolutely not swearing another Oath not to follow the first three.
1- That would cause conflicting Oaths, and you could suffocate the first time you spoke a word that was either true OR untrue.
2- The reactions are totally different. Swearing an Oath, you feel it tighten into you. Unswearing, you feel it torn out of you.
3- We've seen it. They remove the Oaths. "I forswear all Oaths that bind me".
4
Elberyn Delumen: 2002-11-17
Isn't it the power that causes the ageless face?
Didn't Elayne tell Nynaeve in CoS (after first meeting the kin) that how much you slow and how long you live is caused by how much of the Power you can channel?
5
Tamyrlin: 2002-11-17
That is a good question and can be confusing. Aes Sedai naturally, because of the One Power, live longer than those who do not channel. They begin to slow and it is hard to discern their age (like are they 70 or 300). But the specific "ageless" look is attributed to the oath rod, which is why only those who take the oaths get that ageless look. The kin are old, and it is difficult to distinguish their ages because of the natural slowing. Hope that helps.
6
Callandor: 2002-12-22
In the AOL, criminals were to swear on a **binder**, or Oath Rod as it is know in the Third Age. Now, its pretty conclusive for the Oath Rod to cause the shortening of a persons life, we have the Kin living like 400-600 years when Aes Sedai live at most around 300, Semirhage saying how before she turned to the DO that she had the choice of severing (IE: Stilling), or a binder. If she took the binder she wouldve **been able to see the end coming** or something to that extent. Now it would make sense to me that lets say a criminal was found to be innocent. Wouldnt the people want them to remove the binding, basically all the side effects (ageless look, shorter life, cant do certain things, etc.)? So in my opinion yes the ageless look would fade, but we dont know how long it would take. Could be hours, days ,or years. Or could do absolutly nothing. As with a lot of things there are too many unknowns.
7
Lewin: 2003-02-03
Did Siuane and Leane really remove their oaths? If i'm not totally misminded they didn't. That would mean the oath Rod has nothing to do with the agelessness. I think it has to do with the connection( or not connection) with The True Source...
8
Shadowkiller: 2003-03-26
I believe that just after a darkfriend is raised the black ajah contact them and remove the oaths that she has just sworn and make her swear new ones with the oath rod. doing this early on would not cause suspision.
The oath rod deffinately causes agelessness because it is only Aes Sedai who have ageless faces and they are the only ones who use the oath rod. Those who do not use the oath rod slow the ageing process.
9
Korell: 2003-03-27
Lewin to clarify yes the agelessness is connected to the oath rod otherwise the kin would look ageless they can touch Saidar besides which if you read at one time you see the perspective of a forsaken and they directly mention that the oath rod was used as a punishment in the AoL and that it shortened their lifespan as well guess that does not really coralate but the kin and the windfinders would all be agless if it was just from using the power look at Nynave she has been a wilder for quite a while and she is not agless just hard to tell how old she is anyway think i made my point sorry to impede.
10
Jiana: 2003-03-27
It's definitely the oath rod. Siuan and Leane's case is different, as they were severed from the Source, therefore severing them from their oaths as well. As Callandor said, there are too many unknowns. We don't know how long Siuan and Leane were in the dungeon in the dark before Min and Laras came to the rescue... if any of the Aes Sedai who questioned them before that saw any marked difference, it likely would have been mentioned at some point. This argues for the "few hours" theory, but then it's hard to say. And, the sisters Pevara and Seaine questioned did swear the oaths again.... therefore they keep the ageless look. Another point.... I don't think a sister, knowing how it works, would choose to be stilled and then Healed, because that lessens their ability with the One Power.
11
Dorindha: 2003-03-28
With regard to Siuan and Leane, it was a completely different situation - the reason they are no longer bound to the oaths is because their connection to Saidar was taken away, not because the oaths themselves were. The Aes Sedai had not realised that would happen - and that the oath rod only works on chanellers (maybe only female channellers - maybe men need to use a different oath rod).
The other point is that Siuan knew that when Aes sedai are stilled they lose the ageless look, but she says (about the time Min rescues them) that she hadn't expected it to come so soon for them, but that it was a consequence of their rough treatment and speed stilling. I think that it takes them to something like the level of slowing that they would have "reached" without ever having sworn on the oath rod, and presumably with their normal (ish) life span in front of them - 80 years or whatever. I guess that now they are healed, they will have the normal chanellers' lifetime - like the kin.
12
Weird Harold: 2003-03-28
I saw someone describe the Oath Rod's effect as "A constantly updating facelift," and that struck a chord as being apt description.
Severing removes any Oaths because they're apparently bound by the subjects own ability with the One Power. Removing the ability removes the Oaths by "unplugging the power source" that maintains them. Any adverse reactions to removing the Oaths would be hidden in the other side effects of stilling.
Siuan and Leanne aren't recognised immediately, because few stilled AS remain in contact with AS, so the youthful effect has never been noticed before. That implies that even removing the Oaths through stilling produces a gradual loss of the Ageless look.
Removing the Oaths by foreswearing them on the Oath Rod produces symptoms similar to taking conflicting Oaths. That suggests that foreswearing may actually be a conflicting Oath until the foreswearing takes effect and removes the Oaths it conflicts with along with itself.
Using the initial observation as a guide, removing Oaths simply stops the "Facelift" from continuing to update and it eventually wears off to leave the appearance normal Slowing would have produced.
