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Home | Index | Archives | Help
erin's 70 Year Plan
by dondigitalia: 2002-11-11 | 2 out of 10 (4 votes)
Previous Categories: Miscellaneous Theories
Comments
Tamyrlin: 2002-11-12
No, I do agree that Gitara has a part in Verin's "plan", as you pointed out, the prophecies about the Dragon Reborn would go along with the theme that Verin believes Rand needs to make it to the Last Battle. I wonder though what her intentions are for Rand after the LB?
oldmanfish: 2002-11-12
1-Gitara dropped dead upon announcing Rand's birth.
2-She didn't have a "plan", she had the Foretelling.
3-What 70 year plan?
Tamyrlin: 2002-11-12
We are discussing Verin's 70 year plan, something she mentions many books ago in regards to Rand and what she has been doing. The comment was then made that Verin may have had contact with Gitara. I don't think the foretelling had to do with compulsion, but surely Verin gained some insight from what Gitara said. If you look into the archived theories, you should find a category that deals directly with Verin's plan and the comments that have been made about it. Hope that helps.
dondigitalia: 2002-11-12
As I said, I wasn't entirely sure whether Gitara was living or dead. Thanks for clearing that up. Gitara DID have a Foretelling about Rand's birth on Dragonmount. In addition to this Foretelling, though, she also did a few other things that lead me to believe she had a plan:
1) She convinced Tigraine to leave Andor and Join the Aiel.
2) I don't remember exactly what (it's been a while), but for some reason I have it stuck in my head that she also had something to do with Laman cutting down the tree to make his throne, causing the Aiel War. And as we all know, Rand was born to Tigraine as she was fighting during the Aiel War on Dragonmount.
Call me crazy, but all this seems like too much coincidence not to be some Aes Sedai scheme.
oldmanfish: 2002-11-12
Hmmm. I see you (Tamyrlin) are on the "Evil Verin" side of the argument. Remember that 70 years ago Lanfear was dreamless in the Bore.
I have never seen any connection between Verin and Gitara. That is to say, it's not in the books. The timing of Verin's 70-year plan could coincide with her Accepted test, setting her on her path. Or perhaps Gitara told Verin something back then. This is highly possible, since Gitara's Foretellings are what sent Luc to the Blight, to enable him to play his role at Tarmon Gaidon, and Tigraine to the Aiel, telling no one, to become a Maiden, and give birth to Rand.
But even in going only this far, I have engaged in pure speculation.
There is no evidence of Verin masterminding anything, anywhere.
There is ample evidence that she is good and supports Rand.
The Perrin axe-hammer thing: Perrin tells anyone who will listen that he just wants to be a blacksmith.
Channelled in a stedding? Nope. Berelain felt the "no soul" situation when Perrin was hunting for Faile in the wolf dream.
The dream ring notes? Any number of possibilities.
The flash of white? Good question! But only a question. Sure does hint of Lanfear... But to what end?
Did I miss anything?
Tamyrlin: 2002-11-12
Okay, this really deserves its own developed theory...but oldmanfish pushed me to post this now. Personally, dismissing these incidents as coincidence, innocence, or ignorance would diminish the calculative nature of Verin :)
1. The delivery of the ter'angreal to a novice was strictly forbidden. So why risk it? Verin would have been severely punished if discovered.
2. Verin did not inform the Amyrlin of her decision to do so. Why not tell her? Why not counsel with her about using Egwene's affinity to look for BA?
3. Verin neglected to give Egwene the papers that explained the experiences of the previous dreamer. Why think about burning them?
4. Verin gave Egwene very little instruction of its use, and did not mention anything about leaving T'A'R once she goes there. Hmm, and conveniently someone (Lanfear) shows up that knows just that little piece of information.
5. Lanfear was masquerading as the novice Else and has a small confrontation with Egwene. RJ takes the time to mention the flash of white as Egwene turns the corner to Verin's room. Saidar doorway closing or novice leaving the other way?
6. Only Verin and the Amyrlin knew about the search for the BA. So how did Lanfear find out?
7. Lanfear/Else tells the girls about the whereabouts of information left by the BA...and if I am not mistaken the Amyrlin knew nothing of this mysterious information. So who set it up for them to find? Lanfear or Verin?
Miscellaneous:
8. Verin speaks with a known Darkfriend, Lord Barthanes, away from the rest, the night before he is ripped apart by a gholam.
9. Verin tells Rand that he has been “transported” by Portal Stone more recently than she had. By whom was she transported?
10. Verin happens to know the sign for the Portal Stone to get Rand to Toman Head...previously Rand has another run in with a Portal Stone and Lanfear is there to bail him out...
11. Because Verin gave Egwene the ring Lanfear, and many other Forsaken have been able to track their movements through the rest of the books.
12. Lanfear talks to Mat about their being "other alternatives" than choosing the Light or the DO. Verin later speaks to Perrin about how many Aes Sedai have plans with good intentions but that many of these plans are malignant...maybe Verin has a few malignant plans that lead to some end she sees as good. Is she beyond making the deal with a devil to get there?
13. Verin took off after Moiraine and Liandrin...without her Warder, but that's not suspicious, that's circumstantial right. The same night Lanfear pulled Rand into a Mirror World, and Verin arrived just in time to watch over the other two.
14. Verin uses compulsion on Aes Sedai...but she is just trying to help Rand, so that justifies everything.
15. Verin thinks to herself how she is happy that Alanna is having emotional issues with her warder because she (Verin) will be much more maleable to Verin's desires (compulsion).
Verin is manipulative, calculating, and malignant at times. I don't say that she is "evil", but most things she does are very suspicious...and Jordan paints her that way for his own purposes. She does have a plan that has been in the works for 70 years, long before Gitara sent anyone anywhere. She even considered killing Cadsuane. It's all there...people just don't like to accept it.
dondigitalia: 2002-11-13
I personally don't know what I believe about Verin's relationship to the Light/Shadow. And I only say that the Gitara stuff would fit in place with a 70 year mission to make sure all of the Prophecies are fulffilled. Every time something goes according to prophecy, Verin has a secretive smile. After the events at Falme; after the Aes Sedai at Dumai's Wells swore fealty to Rand. She is definitely concerned with making sure he fulfills all of the prophecies and makes it to Tarmon Gaidon. Whether she her concerns are for the Shadow or the light remains to be seen. The Light wants Rand to live for reasons that are obvious. And the DO wants Rand alive for reasons we don't know (I have my own ideas about this dealing with a viewing of Min's or a Dream of Egwene's, where Rand is either crushing or holding together a seal on the DO's prison). You have definitely given me a few things to think about with Verin and the possibility that she is BA, Tamyrlin.
oldmanfish: 2002-11-13
Well said, Tamyrlin.
But.
I chose my words poorly when I said Verin isn't masterminding anything. She does have her "plan", obviously. What I mean specifically is that she does not have an evil, BA, or Lanfear induced plot. Like virtually every other AS in the books, she is running her own game, bending rules and breaking customs as she sees fit.
Like Moiraine, Elaida, Siuan, ... I'm not even going to try to list them all; I'm sure you know them as well as I, if not better. But I will address some of your points:
(BTW I think I'm leaning toward Verin's plan coming from her trip through the Accepted rings. That will probably affect this).
1-No one else knew the ring existed, and Verin says use every tool you can.
2-Maybe just to stay out of trouble for #1, maybe because 3 can keep a secret if 2 are dead. They weren't even sure Egwene was a Dreamer yet. Side note, maybe she saw Siuan deposed and questioned in the Accepted test.
3-Don't know. Maybe it would have scared her off. Maybe it would have made her too bold, thinking she knows it all. But she considered it, so she's not under orders or Compulsion.
Side note:"It is best to leave things as they are. What will happen, will happen." Maybe Rings.
4-"'You don't know the way out,' Silvie said flatly". Obviously Lanfear is surprised to find someone in T'A'R who doesn't know how to leave.
5-Lanfear turning invisible to spy on the upcoming conversation is as good a reason as any.
6-See #5
7-Lanfear.
8-Perfectly normal, if not expected, for an AS to speak to the host.
9-"I have never used a stone. That is why your use is more recent than mine".
10-"It's one of the three stones for which I know the symbol, the only one of those three I've visited". She is a Brown, remember.
11-But there has been far greater benefit that detriment through it's use.
12-Yes. No truce with the Shadow!!!
13-And let's not forget the infamous, "Moiraine sent me". Maybe she left Tomas because she suspected an AS vs AS fight when Liandrin went after Moiraine, and he could do nothing but die. Or she just followed out of curiosity, and forgetting Tomas was just Brown space-cadet syndrome. (I don't buy that one, either...)
But this has been covered a million times. Anyway, she didn't show up to watch the other two: she snaps to reality and asks, "Where is Rand al'Thor?'
14-Yes. But it isn't quite Compulsion, and if she was in cahoots with Lanfear, wouldn't she be better at it?
15-Yes. But "guidance", not her homemade Compulsion. Just standard AS manipulation.
Again, I agree Verin is running her own game, but show me an AS who isn't?
(Not Lanfear's game, not the Dark One's or the BA's).
pointyman: 2002-11-14
But 70 years ago could not possibly "coincide" with Verin's accepted test... she is much too old for that. Unless you meant that it was something she saw way back in her accepted test that was going to come true, which 'correlated' with whatever happened 70 years ago.
the silent speaker: 2002-11-28
Not "much too old"; exactly how old she is, there's evidence that contradicts other evidence flat (start with an easy one: what color is her hair? One place says it's graying, another place specifically says it isn't.) My guess is that she's been Aes Sedai for roughly one hundred years, plus six as an Accepted, so she would have passed her Accepted test a good thirty-five years before, but that's not all that much to Aes Sedai.
Isam: 2002-12-04
Two points. First while there is alot of evidence that Verin has her own agenda, I don't think her intention have been harmful. Consider that if Verin had wanted to she could have removed many of the good guys by this point. One example Ishamael wanted to get rid of Nynaeve and Egwene, that was the whole point of having Liandrin take them to Falme, yet Verin rides home with them. If she wanted to get rid of them she could have. there are other examples but that will suffice.
Consider instead that Verin is someone else, someone who wants to ensure the Dragon wins and has a plan to do it. This plan involved everyone Rand, Perrin, Mat, Nynaeve, Elayne, Egwene and most of the others. How could she have so involved a plan. What if she was the last dreamer Corianna(not sure about spelling). But how could this be since Corianna lived over 300 years ago. Rember the Portal Stones. The ones that Verin knows something about when in the current time they have been almost entirely forgotten. Rember that Rand moved his party across the continent, but not immediately, also four months transpired. However the ones who went, went instantly. We know this since Mat, who was dying from being seperated from the dagger, wasn't made any sicker, even though he never would have survived four months. If the Portal Stones can take you months into the future, why not centuries. If Corianna, a dreamer, saw visions of what needed to be done to win the Last Battle 300 years ago, could she have come foward 230 years to give herself time to lay her plans and still be alive when the Dragon was reborn. As to the fact that some remember her when she was an accepted, remember she has some skill with compulsion. We only learn that she learned the weaving from questioning wilders who had some kind of trick to get people to agree with them. But I'll bet wilders had the same tricks 300 years agom so she could have learned it back them, come foward and used it on a few of her sisters to ensure that nobody would question her existence. I recognize that this is somewhat out there but consider that there are many other mysteries this could explain. Just one example Moraine doesn't know who Tam is until the begining of The Great Hunt. Then she sits down with Sinuan and Verin who has just happened to figure out the Dragon has been reborn. When Rands comes for his interview with the Amyrlin seat a few minutes later, Moiraine knows who his father was. My guess is Verin knew it. I think that this also hurts the theory she is Dark. We know Ishamael only just found Rand at the beginning of EotW. It's hardly likely that everything about Rand's father could be discovered so quickly, especially since Trollocs or Fades were unlikely to bother questioning people and other outsiders go to Edmonds field would probably have been remembered and thier trip recounted to Perrin when he returned. So this is my two-cents on who Verin is. Please feel free to rip my theory apart and show me all its flaws. Thanks
OROBOROS: 2002-12-15
Lanfear probably did have some contact with Verin in TDR, but i don't think there is any connection between them.
Lanfear may have shown up at Verin's door with the paper's from Siuan as Else, although she more likely compelled verin into thinking that she had received the paper's directly from the amyrlin. Someone mentioned the possibility that lanfear was spying on the conversation, which is also likely.
Lanfear's business in the tower was to further the plan to capture Rand in the Stone. LOC 178 "[Mesaana] thinks lews therin will soon be in our hands, but then she has said the same every time. She was sure Be'lal would kill or capture him in tear, she was very proud of that trap." (Graendal to Sammael)
Callandor: 2003-01-01
I think that the getting Rand into their hands was the result of him getting catured. Remember Mesaana is in the Tower she for sure had some involvment in the attempt.
Dedicated: 2003-02-13
I've always viewed Verin as a possible agent of the Creator. Her 70 year plan is viable. She has to be strong in the power, as the Salidar AS delegation in Camelyn all (even Kiruna and Bera) defer to her. I think Verin simply knows way too much for any regular AS, even a brown. She may have possibly been an unwitting pawn for Lanfear a few times, one can't really say she has ever done anything "evil" on purpose. She's simply cold and decisive. Her asking Perrin about the axe and hammer indicates obscure knowledge. Verin also has that document she reads to Egwene in TDR: A World of Dreams p.237.
"The tiny owl blinked at Egwene again. She tried not to look at it. 'What does it say, Verin Sedai?' Verin blinked, very much as the owl had. 'What does it say? It is a direct translation, mind and reads almost like a bard reciting in high chant. Listen. 'Heart of the Dark. Ba'alzamon. Name hidden within name shrouded by name. Secret buried within secret cloaked by secret. Betrayer of Hope. Ishamael betrays all hope. Truth burns and sears. Hope fails before truth. A lie is our shield. Who can stand against the Heart of the Dark? Who can face the Betrayer of Hope? Soul of shadow, Soul of the Shadow, he is-' She stopped with a sigh. 'It ends there. What do you make of it?' 'I don't know,' Egwene said 'I don't like it'"
Now we know Browns come across alot of obscure documents and what not, but this document is extremely important. Maybe Verin doesn't know what it means, but maybe she does. Hell, it contains the true identity of Ba'alzamon, Heart of the Dark. It hints at what has been going on for the entire third age. Verin, as a brown might know that the trollocs invaded in the Trolloc Wars under the standard of Ba'alzamon (Ba'alzamon's a trolloc word, right?). Verin's perceptive to say the least. She may have been able to later work out what it said. Up until that point however, Verin says she doesn't understand it even after studying it for 40 years. Now assuming Verin can't lie that's true. But Verin possibly has the ability to lie, though this is unconfirmed (Jordan said that infamous time Verin "lied" was not a slip on his part. )
I think Verin may well have a 70 year plan, with the wheels running smoothly right now. I just think the knowledge of obscure and forgotten things and her attitude towards Rand (she is protective of him) makes a case for her being a Creator agent.
Jiana: 2003-04-01
Verin may be an agent of the Creator... or she may be BA. She DID lie, in TGH. Specifically, the words were: Verin: "Moiraine sent me." Then in a later chapter: Moiraine: "I did not send Verin." (Sorry but at this time I do not ahve page and chapter numbers.) Now, unless we are willing to say that Moiraine is BA, then Verin is, or else she has had the oaths removed. But if she had had the oaths removed, she would NOT still have the ageless face. The members of the BA that we have met all still have the ageless features, yet they have the ability to lie. This is what I have concluded, even though this conclusion may change next week :) Verin is like Ingtar... being that she "went over" to the DO, but only so she could be an "insider." She wanted to be privy to all (or at least some) of the information that only Darkfriends are privy to, in order to help the cause of the Light. I do not think that Verin has ill intentions, but I think Rand should be more wary of Verin than he is of Cadsuane :)
Dorindha: 2003-04-02
If an Aes Sedai has had the oaths removed on the oath rod, they do still have the ageless face, as Pevara and the other one don't comment on it in their experiments, and the BA obviously don't look abnormal (although they have sworn other oaths). Besides this, we have no reason to doubt that the other two oaths still bind Verin, which would still leave her with an ageless face.
I don't really know what to think about Verin. I cannot believe she is black, as we have seen various things from her point of view (sorry, don't have the books with me so can't find what), and as yet nothing has proved anything either way. I think there is a strong chance she simply has her own agenda (which might be as an agent of the creator - no one else is), but we are going to need some solid info one way or another before the discussions on what Verin is up to can progress any further than they have already.
Mairan Sedai: 2003-04-02
I don't really know what to think about Verin either, but just to throw in another fact, didn't she have to give a false name in Far Madding? I got the impression that she would have been imprisoned or something of that sort if they had known she was Verin Mathwin.
Callandor: 2003-04-02
The BA remove their oaths and swear new ones thats why they retain te ageless face.
The experiments in TPOD ad WH are due to the fact that they removed the oaths and then swore them back.
RJ said that Verin has sworn the 3 oaths before, and I highly doubt that Verin is BA since she was gonig to kill Cadsuane before she was sure that she wasnt BA.
juitzhead: 2003-04-02
Moraine and Lan also gave false names in TEOTW (although I can remember in which village) and she's definetly sworn the 3 oaths and is not BA.
jason wolfbrother: 2003-04-02
Moraine was extremely careful in her wording. "You can call me Mistress Alys". She never claims that is her name, just gives permission to be addressed as such. She lies without uttering one untrue word.
Hydraan Sedai: 2003-04-02
Verin used a different name in Far Madding because she had a run-in with the law. I don't have the exact quote on me right now, but I'm sure that's the reason.
In response to the "Moiraine sent me" "I didn't send Verin" thing, it is possible that either one or both of them believed this to be the truth. Perhaps Moirane aksed Alanna Mosvani to go and find the Ta'veren, and Alanna pulled Verin along as well, maybe saying that Moiraine wanted her to go. Alanna could be Black Ajah, or she could have told Verin to come without actually saying Moiraine wanted her to do so. So Verin believes Moiraine sent her, and Moiraine doesn't believe she sent her.
Jiana: 2003-04-03
Alanna wasn't with Verin when Verin went to join the true Hunt for the Horn. She didn't join up with Verin until they went to the Two Rivers. I considered the possibility that one or the other (Moiraine or Verin) believed what she said to be true... But that sounds way too simple to me. Sorry. :)
Mairan Sedai: 2003-04-05
I knew basically why Verin gave a false name, I was just wondering what she might have done. Is there any evidence that Verin ever had a Well? Maybe she only channeled in there.
I believe Verin is on Rand's side, but to her, the end justifies the means. Like in Winter's Heart, chapter 25, page 495 in the hardcover.
"'Verin, he can do whatever his heart desires, as long as he lives to reach Tarmon Gai'don... He is turning into a stone, Verin, winning the Last Battle may not be much better than losing...'
...Hastily filling a second cup, Verin slipped the small vial back into her pouch unopened. It was good to be sure of Cadsuane at last...."
This is quintessentially Verin. She'll put an overdose of that sleeping potion in Cadsuane's tea, but not if she knows the other woman is for Rand. And I'm pretty sure she's not BA because we have several POVs for her and not one mentions the DO as the GLotD.
Jiana: 2003-04-10
Okay, I concede, I do not really think Verin is BA, however......... she CAN lie. I will stand by this unless RJ says otherwise. Now, wouldn't it be just like Verin to find out the obscure bit of knowledge that the Oath Rod can release as well as bind?
WarClown: 2003-04-10
I'm new here, and I thought I'd offer my views here now that I'm done eating chicken.
I'm of the belief that Verin is not evil. That's just the general impression I've picked up as I read the books. I do think she lied, and as someone said that might point towards being Black Ajah. All that means is that she is not bound by the oath against lying, if not all three. Because of her ageless features, she is clearly bound by at leat one oath, but nobody ever said that the Black Ajah copyrighted the ability to swear secret oaths.
Even though I see absolutely no evidence to back it up and don't think it myself, I like the notion that Verin might be the Creator's agent. Or, maybe I just ate some bad chicken.
spearmaiden: 2003-06-26
People keep talking about Verin's "lie" as proof that she is BA.
However, isn't it possible that she used her Compulsion-like trick to get Moiraine to tell her things, and to get Moiraine to send her there, so that she could honestly say that Moiraine had sent her?
I'm not saying I believe this or not, I'm just saying that her infamous lie is not conculsive proof that she is BA, there are certainly other explanations.
Lorddragonwolf: 2003-09-13
my part of this is that verin is much older than cadsuane and that she is in fact Corianin Nedal who verin says was the last dreamer the tower knew of. maybe she stayed in tar and came out different somehow and started tower training all over.
Callandor: 2003-09-14
RJ was asked a question in an interview about Verin holding the Oath Rod and he said that he has never said she hasn't and then said that Cadsuane has also held the Rod. So going by that, you can assume that both Verin and Cads have sworn and that Verin is younger then Cads and can't be the last dreamer.
Lorddragonwolf: 2003-09-15
there is still the posibility that she was a dreamer. i dont think verin is evil
Khaos: 2004-01-12
Equally i do not believe that Verin is evil but neither do I think she is good. I think she is true neutral, her purpose is to ensure that prophecy is fulfilled and that the last battle is fought as it should be and that what was meant to come to pass shall, and that she has no preference as to whether Light or Shadow is triumphant merely that the wheel weaves.
Take that incident with Cadsuane for example many people interpret it that she lets Cadsuane live because she is "for" Rand. What Cadsaune says is that Rand must make it to TG in a capacity where he can fight it. What if what Verin is finally sure about is that cadsuane's efforts are aimed at getting Rand to TG, and not that she is "for" Rand and not BA. Perhaps she was concerned that Cadsuane may make the decision to have Rand gentled, lets not forget that Cadsuane was famed for hunting down false dragons.
As for the whole Verin/Lanfear connection perhaps we should consider reversing it. Now here me out what if Verin had at some point decided to use some of her form of compulsion and her chosen target was Else Grinwell, but of course who she gets is Lanfear. At this point she will now have access to Lanfear's knowledge and her plans and motivations (and seeing as she wanted to aid Rand would explain why Verin would let her go). If my theory of her being a true neutral is accurate she may believe that Lanfear's presence in the world was still required.
It does beg the question of whether or not one of the Forsaken could be compelled but the only example we have is Moghedien and Liandrin where it failed but Moghedien was expecting some kind of attack, so to presume from that example that they can't is a bit shaky.
Elder Haman: 2004-01-12
Except that Verin's "compulsion" only works when it's done to someone who trusts her and lets her guard down
Deadsy: 2004-01-13
I haven't seen RJ's exact answer to the oath rod question, but if all he said was that they swore on the oath rod, it tells us nothing. It's an Aes Sedai answer. All the black ajah swore on the oath rod too. I don't think Verin is black ajah though.
Anubis: 2004-01-13
of course they held the oath rod.. they have the ageless look. Tho i suppose it is theoreticly possible that they could be walking around with an illusion weave on making them look ageless... but that would be too much work and i dont think they know how to invert so basicly they had to have held the oath rod.
Zaela Sedai: 2004-01-14
It doesn't matter if they swore on the oath rod, it's been proved that you can forsake those oaths. (do I really need to find the quotes) Any BA has done so and then probably sore new oaths.
rubbernilly: 2004-01-14
yes, the Ageless look doesn't matter. Verin could be bound by only two of the oaths... or a new set of three.
She doesn't stop herself from killing Cadsuane because she is sure that Cadsuane is not BA, she stops herself because she is "sure" of Cadsuane.
Nowhere, to my memory, does that say that she is "sure" that Cadsuane is not BA.
That is the product of eager readers seeing what is not there, I think.
Also, there is some mention in the new New Spring Novel about activities 50 years before the story... which is 20 years before the main books. These events are most certainly the beginning of this 70 year plan.
Deadsy: 2004-01-14
Yes.. "...puzzle out what happened forty or fifty years ago in Tarabon and Saldaea and Altara." Do we know anything that they all have in common?
PepperjackCandy: 2004-02-01
I've been working on the "Verin's lie" thing for a while, and have come up with a few non-BA explanations:
1. Liandrin was with Siuan's group, and she disappeared at the same time as Moiraine and Verin. Liandrin's Black, and therefore can lie, *and* she has compulsion (I think -- didn't she use it on Agelmar's sister?). So Liandrin could have told Verin that Moiraine sent a message to go with the boys, and given it a little "push" to sell it to Verin.
2. A case of hearing what you want to hear. Moiraine may have said that she wished she could be in two places at once, so she could go with the boys as well as back to Tar Valon or something like that. Verin wanted to go with the boys, so she heard a request for help. Then she told the boys what she chose to believe was true.
3. Verin can lie, but isn't BA. In TDR, Verin shows Egwene a scar she got in T'A'R, and which Anaiya healed. Why wouldn't she have gone to a Yellow for it? Because she got it doing something she shouldn't have been doing, like seeing if the T'A'R Oath Rod works like the waking world one did, and used it to remove her oaths. We've seen how painful removing the oaths is. She passed out, injured herself on the way down, and when she awoke, she figured she'd better get help for the wound, rather than hanging around in T'A'R to rebind herself.
I don't think that Verin's evil, but I do think that she's very, very curious (a big part of the reason why I identify with her), and will do pretty much anything she can to satisfy that curiosity. Hadn't she just mentioned to Siuan that no one had ever recorded the sequence of events of a man going mad from the taint? And in a way that sounded like she'd found a good chance in Rand? Well, by sticking to Rand and his friends, she can either be witness to a man going mad, or to the events surrounding Tarmon Gaidon, and either way, her curiosity wins.
Ron al Doskam: 2004-12-21
If we look back to the seventy years plan of Verin there are some things that strike me as odd.
1) At that time according to the Guide a Brown Amirlyn was in the seat. So it can't be about the removal or killing of the Amirlyn.
2) If we look at the AS who where living then, and who are mentioned so now and again or are still playing a important role, I come across Cadsuane, Gitara, but also Setalle Anan and Garinia.
3) Somewhere, I think in the prologue of APOD or ACOS she mentioned in her POV that she had made her last mistake about seventy years ago. Which leads me to believe that there is a connection between those formentioned.
I haven't seen this angle in the discussion.
And also in the Guide it is mentioned that beside the hall the Amirlyn was working together with the seven leaders of the Ajahs since the founding of the tower.
Now we find the tower divided but the leaders of the remaining Ajahs are still in contact with each other.
I haven't worked this 'grand scheme' out as yet in a theory, but it seems to me that this, together with the involved persons is the clue to the position of Verin.
And I think that the Tamirlyn has a point about her. There is definetly something fishy about Verin. You don't go around compulsing your fellow AS, when you are on the Lighter side.