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ouls Reborn From Previous Ages

by Dedicated Gregor: 2002-11-24 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: Miscellaneous Theories

I've seen it around the site. Every person is someone from the pst reborn, the same soul come to life over and over again. People really believe this, because after all, it happened to Rand, and Birgitte, and Gaidal Cain... etc.

I completely disagree though. Rand, Birgitte, all the Heroes of the Horn... are complete exceptions to the way the Wheel turns. They are bound to the Wheel because of their heroic feats, they earned the right to be born again and again. Rand is the Dragon Reborn, LTT re-sealed the Dark One, a very heroic feat, and he has to be there at the Last Battle. Birgitte and Gaidal Cain have always performed amazing feats that go beyond average people. Artur Hawkwing united all of the nations under his rule, a very heroic feat. But the Heroes of the Horn, when summond by Mat at Falme, were just around a hundred or so.

If everyone was someone else reborn, why wouldn't they also be somewhere in Tel'aran'rhiod, waiting to be spun out by the Wheel again? Wouldn't they also be bound to the Wheel, technically? So i think this points to the fact that most people are siply themselves, and are not reborn over and over.

Then through this theory i think i can also argue the one soul/two sould arguement of the Dragon Reborn. The Heroes of the Horn at Falme recongize Rand as Lews Therin, and Hawkwing even calls him that. But also, the Chosen often refer to him as LTT. I wish i had page references for this next part, but i don't so bear with me here. There have been several occasions (hopefully i can look them up later) where one of the Chosen has been comparing Rand to Lews Therin, but has commented on differences in their personalities. Rand often times finds himself humming when looking at a pretty girl, as LTT used to, but it's not something that Rand does. They have different personalities, and different habits, and this leads me to believe that there are two souls.

True, Rand is the Dragon REBORN, but maybe it's just meant to imply that he has the same fate (which is woven into the pattern because he is ta'veren) as the Dragon... to fight against the Dark One.

So i think that Rand is a completely different case from Birgitte, who has one soul and it is reborn by the Wheel, because there are different circumstances around his being reborn.
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2002-11-25

Okay, I will attempt to break down the premise of your argument (since I am a one-souler, and will always be a one-souler). Your belief is that only Heroes of the Horn are reborn souls. It took a few moments of looking through the Big White Book, but I found the reference I was looking for. “No ending, even death, is necessarily final within the turning of the Wheel. Reincarnation is a part of the way of the world.” Reincarnation is the way Jordan describes the various turnings of the Wheel. Not reincarnation of only Heroes. The Heroes are special because they have unique traits, but the souls of “normal” people are reincarnated also. Where all souls reside is a good question. The souls of Heroes apparently have access to T'A'R, and Birgitte obviously was able to break the rules that I guess were to prevent them from speaking with the living.

2

pointyman: 2002-11-26

The souls that gain access to TAR are only placed there so that the Horn of Valere can call them back into being, when so needed. They are spun out as required by the pattern, to fulfill the needs for heroic deeds and actions.

3

Dedicated Gregor: 2002-12-02

You know what's funny? I (partially) own the big white book, but i haven't read it very thoroughly. I'll definitely have to get it back from my friend and read up. Now from what i've gathered from your arguement, i would say that it makes more sense that if souls are reborn repeatedly, it is only the Heroes of the Horn who get born into every Age, whereas the average person's soul might be reborn into the same Age when it comes again.

The biggest reason that i think this is because i would imagine if a person has one soul they would have one mind, and think the same way every life. (For example, Birgitte always becomes an archer, and never does well with a sword) So if every sould is reborn every person would make decisions far too similar to what they did in the last life/Age and then every Age would be nothing more than a repitition of the last.

As for the whole "Two Soul" theory for Rand... In the Theoryland Chronicles Dragon Thief makes a much, much better arguement than i did. So for my reply just read DT's theory (if you haven't already that is).

4

Daod: 2002-12-06

If you think that, how do you explain Mat? He is almost defenitly quite a few people reborn, and if he was a hero of the horn, why didn't the other heroes recognize him? His memories might not be from his past lives, but they are all so similar to Mat's character, I find it hard to believe.

5

Callandor: 2002-12-11

RJ said once that the most showing signs of rebirth were in Birgitte and Mat. How i have no idea just stating.

6

Drekan: 2002-12-12

I think that souls are reborn, yet they don't always follow the same path. Some souls, like the heroes of the horn, have distinguished themselves and hence are woven out into the pattern as similar people each time and are always destined for greatness, others, the mundane sort of people, are woven out as required to do the average, everyday sort of thing. It might even be that the souls always do make similar decisions, but who could tell? The soul could be born with other, completely different souls around it, forcing new decisions on it, creating different variations in the pattern.

Mat, on the other hand, I think in slightly different. From his previous memories, you can get the gist that he was always close to someone who was important(normally a battle commander, etc, pretty high up.) So I think that Mat isnt bound to the horn, yet is woven out in much the same way that the heros are, to give a hero a good battle commander, so they can do their heroic things. The similar personalities are necessary as almost all good generals in melee battles need to be lucky to get through, and gambling is a good way to prove you are lucky.