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ews Therin, Arthur Hawkwing and the Horn

by demonblade: 2002-11-28 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: Miscellaneous Theories

There is one thing about the Heroes of the Horn that makes me wonder: the leader of the pack is Arthur Hawkwing. Hawkwing sees Rand and remarks that he hasn't seen 'Lews Therin' for a while, and then looks at Perrin and says something like there might be some more additions to the heroes, namely Perrin. My question is this; if Arthur Hawkwing knew Lews Therin, then why was he alive around two thousand years after Lews Therin killed himself? Did they know each other when Lews Therin was alive, and did Arthur Hawkwing go under a different name? It seems to me that the heroes use their names we all know them as as sort of default names. So then there really is no reason why Arthur Hawkwing should even know who Lews Therin exists. If, as it has been suggested, that Lews Therin was 'living' in T'A'R until he was spun out again, and given that he was apparently mad, it doesn't seem very clear to me why Hawkwing would even give a crazy man such a warm reception. The whole scene of Mat sounding the horn doesn't make all that much sense, or maybe the horn doesn't at all. Maybe the whole 'wheel of time' thing fits. Maybe there has been thousands of Rands and thousands of Lews Therins, but that still doesn't explain why Arthur Hawkwing knows Lews Therin, not Rand. I don't know, any suggestions?
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2002-11-28

I don't have any good answer. Is LTT the legend, therefore, known by his legendary name to other legends? Was LTT made a hero after his life in the Age of Legends? Is the name of each hero, the first name by which they became legends?

2

WinespringBrother: 2002-11-29

Maybe in this "turning of the wheel", Hawkwing knows of Lews Therin as the breaker of the world, and Lews Therin knows Hawkwing as the uniter of the nations. In other "turnings of the wheel", they would have known each other by different names, even though they are the same souls bound to the wheel.

3

Drekan: 2002-12-10

As I see it, the heroes can talk to each other in Tel-Aran Rhiod. Probably, Artur and LTT have been spun out in the same time at some point, so the heroes souls know each other, Artur then recognised Rand as the Dragon soul, who hasn't been in TAR for a while, since Rand has been born. Also, as Brigette said, the most recent life is the best remembered life, so LTT probably called himself LTT in TAR in the time between the breaking and now, so in the past few thousand years, they probably been talking to each other as Lews and Artur, instead of what they would be called the previous turns of the wheel.

4

Captain Cauthon: 2003-01-03

I agree with what Drakar says, and can help to back it up. After re-reading the part in TGH where Mat sounds the horn, it seems to make it pretty clear that LTT and Hawkwing know each other from numerous past lives, and likely the other heroes too. Hawkwing at one point says, "I have fought by your side times beyond number, Lews Therin, and faced you as many more." Also, the heroes all laugh when Rand asks that they rescue Egwene from the Seanchan and Birgette says, "You always choose women who cause you trouble, Lews Therin," which is followed by a line saying that it was said as if between old friends. Having access to the memories of all their past lives, it truly is as if all of the heroes are old friends, and they probably did hang out in TAR.

A side-thought also occurred to me though: could it be that LTT and Hawkwing could have faced each other so many times because they're also being spun out in the mirror worlds as well? I think that Fel says at one point that if the Dark One is freed in any of the worlds then he will be free in all of them, so there must be separate battles taking place in all of them that don't necessarily have to be much like "our" world. Since TAR connects all the worlds and is one of the few constants between them, a hero could logically only exist in only one at a time.

5

brother of Battles: 2004-07-13

LTT is a hero of the horn. We already know that the hero are spun into the pattern when the pattern needs them. While the heros await to be spun out, the reside in T'A'R. Plus, we know from Birgitte that they aren't always born with the same name. We also know from her that it is possible for heros of the horn can be together in T'A'R because her and Gaidal Cain were always together in the dream world until he was spun out. So, LTT wasn't "living" in T'A'R, he was bound to the horn like every other Hero of the Horn.