E: Sammael is alive
by farlorn: 2002-12-12 | 1.57 out of 10 (14 votes)
Alright, mashadar ate sammael's soul. Here's a thought, though, what happened to Mashadar when Rand and Nynaeve turned Shadar Logoth into a big black hole in the ground? Did mashadar get destroyed along with it? If this is the case, what happened to the souls that were eaten (or whatever), by mashadar. Were they destroyed along with it? I'm really not sure about this, but if, somehow, the souls were freed by the destruction of mashadar, then it is totally possible that Sammael may end up reincarnated.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2002-12-12
I am assuming that Mashadar was destroyed. But I truly never considered this point. Here is an additional thought, you are assuming that the DO is still connected to Sammael, but that Mashadar had control over the soul of the dead Sammael that supercedes the control the DO has. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with that, but I wonder what will become of Sammael's soul if all souls truly remain with Mashadar (I know the Black Wind in the Ways appears to be made up of the souls it has taken, but is Mashadar the same? Quote anyone?)
2
Caraline Damodred: 2003-03-20
What if Mashadar didn't eat Sammael? All we know is that Rand turned away to balefire Liah, and then turned back to find Sammael's last known location was overrun by Mashadar, and he hadn't felt saidin being channeled. He just assumed Sammael was dead.
But what if Sammael used the True Power to escape? Or Moridin rescued him using the TP? I'm sure we'll see Sammael again - so far, only Asmodean and the balefired Forsaken are permanent goners, as far as I'm aware.
3
Rand-althor: 2003-03-20
I cant remember where, but somewhere on Wotmania.com Dragonmount.com or Tarvalon.net Jordan has said, in an enterview "Sammael is toast." There u go, from the writers mouth, no more sammael, end of discussion.
P.S. ill repost with what site as soon as i am sure
4
Lewin: 2003-06-13
Here's the exact q and a... From cnn.com btw:
Question from Arsolos: It has been reported that you have confirmed that Sammael died at the end of Crown of Swords. Could you confirm that you have said this and elaborate on whether Rand was correct?
Robert Jordan: Mashadar killed Sammael. Sammael is toast!
5
mako0424: 2004-06-29
i am sorry to refute anyone's previous statements, including Robert Jordans, but i am positive Sammael will come back into play one way or another, it is truly my guess that Sammael didn't die by Mashadar though.
When Rand meets Moridin in Shadar Logoth and they are talking, Moridin uses True Power entire time and Rand doesbn't feel it, and second of all: both Rand's memories of Sammael and what Moridin says, is that Sammael was very clever about setting up traps and what not, and pre-thinking every possible outcome.
We know this When Rand and the other Asha'man discover all the wards placed around Illian and Rand rediscovers this when he finds all the wards in Shadar Logoth too, and how Sammael stands by the Waygate is fishy.
Now my final point is, if Jordan were to kill off Sammael, why wouldn't he have written it, or showed the reader his death. Instead, mighty coincdentally, Rand turns to balefire liah, and turns back and Liah is gone.
And even before this happens Sammael was watching Mashadar roll in behind him, and he didnt seem to fazed.
As a decent writer, and a manipulator of words all i can suggest is he wouldn't have such an anti-climatic ending of one of Rand's personal enemies and a strong Forsaken besides.
We also know Graendal and Sammael were in heavy cohoots previously, and setting alot of stuff up. Graendal never mentions Sammael being dead.
If Jordan truly said and meant Sammael is toast, all i can suggest is he will come back as another character.
And my final theory, one that is heavily debated, i think Sammael is Taim or Taim is one of Demandred's proxies, one of the two.
6
sarutobi: 2005-06-05
Well he does say sammael was killed by mashadar but he is a major rival of lews so i believe he will come back in one form or another. There is no disputing the fact that he died because of robert jordan but there are other things that could happen. I was thinking what if morridin has more powers because of his place than let on. Maybe he took control of sammaels soul before mashadar could consume it. Therefore sammael would be dead but his soul would still be around.
7
Callandor: 2005-06-05
** was thinking what if morridin has more powers because of his place than let on. Maybe he took control of sammaels soul before mashadar could consume it.**
All implications are that Moridin had left Shadar Logoth soon after helping Rand. Plus, from Rand's vantage point, he would've seen Moridin's attempt to remove Sammael's soul, because he did try something similar to Rand in Tear and had to be quite close.
Any other powers perscribed to Moridin about soul stealing, are suppositions and unbased. It's the Dark One that transmigrates the Forsaken; not Moridin/Ishamael.
8
Asmodean: 2005-06-05
don't quote me on this..just thought it would be interesting...say the destruction of Mashadar caused the dead walking..instead of being destroyed..the souls now walk..Samael included..Samel is Toast..and now he's a ghost...
9
JakOShadows: 2005-06-06
Asmodean: That's an interesting idea there. It's the only explanation that's made sense so far, and the timing coincides with all the events timewise. I'm definitely going to think on this when I reread the books.
10
Asmodean: 2005-06-06
I was just being a wise@ss..as usual..but that might be something to look into..I may do that also
11
Anubis: 2005-06-06
**i am sorry to refute anyone's previous statements, including Robert Jordans**
you.... cant refute RJs statments... its his world, he is god. If he says sammeal is toast then it means hes not gonna use sammael in anymore books which means in WOT sense that sammael is dead beyond repair.
12
Anubis: 2005-06-06
Asmodean, its a nice theory but it doesnt explain why people who werent killed my marshdar are seen walking around. I believe one of Elaynes maids saw the ghost of a dead lord, which freaked her out.
13
Narianna: 2005-06-06
not dead lord
his mother (IIRC).
and btw ican't understand this statement
"mashadar ate sammael's soul"
does it mention somewhere that the mashadar not only takes ur body but also ur soul??
14
SDog: 2005-06-06
To refute the Mashadar-Ghost theory, one just has to realize that one or or more ghost sightings actually took place prior to the destruction of SL. Namely, Elayne's maid's encounter.
If the ghosts were around before the Cleansing, the Cleansing has nothing to do with the ghosts.
