he Seanchan Ogier
by Mairashda: 2002-12-17 | Not yet rated
"(...)Captain Musenge ordered only two to accompany her on deck, where two dozen Ogier Gardeners in the red-and-green made a line to either seide of the doorway, great black-tasseled axes upright in front of them and grim eyes watching for any danger even here.
They would not die if she did, but they also had asked to be in her guard, and she would rest her life in any of those huge hands without a qualm."
-from "What a Veil Hides" (WH, Ch.14)
The first thing that seems to be highly unusual is of course having Ogier not only take place in politics but even serve in a human elite military formation- even if they do have their own units. Also -so very unlike the Ogier from the main continent- those appear distrustful and closed, if loyal to the seanchan empire. Thinking about the military...usefulness of Ogier it occured to me that this...usefulness would be greatly diminished by them being bound to the Stedding. Imagine half your elite troups being taken by the Longing during a campaign to put down a rebellion. So what if those Ogier are not bound to the Stedding?
During the breaking the mainland Ogier wandered the land desperately searching the Stedding to find at last a place of peace, a sanctuary, which in the end bound them.
The Seanchan Ogier might instead have reverted to their even more ancient, warlike nature, fighting for themselves.
Another scenario is that just like most of the peculiar seanchan beasts the the seanchan Ogier were brought there via Portal Stones...
ready...aim...
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1
Tamyrlin: 2002-12-17
The Longing. Hmm, I guess they could be wild Ogier that could not find a Stedding, and became more warlike, fighting for their survival. The Seanchan might have "domesticated" them and they may not even remember the Steddings or the Longing. Or, it is possible that there are peaceful, stedding hugging, Ogier in Seanchan, but that a tribe of them that has grown large over time are a warrior society. Interesting observation.
2
Drekan: 2002-12-17
As I see it, the Longing occured because it took the Ogier so long after the breaking to find the stedding. Before the breaking, I think they took part in things like police work and were very loyal etc. What if the ogier in seanchan didnt take so long to find their stedding? This would mean that they never developed the Longing, and so arnt bound to a stedding.
3
Therilon: 2002-12-17
I would think that the Ogier were just changed through a long period of time. 1000 years is enough time to change anything, and with the influece of the warlike petty nations fighting for control, the Ogier could have grown up having to defend thier Stedding. They could have been pushed off the stedding gradually, or it could have been a period of reajustment. (Now, see if you can spend 6 months outside the stedding) They don't need to have been brought in with PSs, IMO.
4
Korell: 2003-04-24
Just a thought what if the Ogier were there on Seanchan to begin with there is nothing to say that they were not did the breaking only take place on this side of the world? if so that would explain it because these Ogier would never have lost their Steedings and there for not fall victim to the Longing...however i belive the Longing did not begin until AFTER the stedding were found atleast thats what i thought so maybe these Ogier never found the Steadding and that would make things very interesting when they do I wonder how Loial will feel when he sees these Axe toating Ogier i think this may be his chance to bring them back to the steadding
5
Callandor: 2003-04-24
The Longing took place during the time of the Breaking till when the stedding were being found again.
6
Korell: 2003-04-25
actually i thought it said somwhere that the longing began after they found the stedding because they could not stand to be away from it for very long ever since they had found it now i am gonna have to go and reread the whole series again "darn" LOL
7
Rand-althor: 2003-04-25
The longing seems to have been caused by a long time, maybe even generations of ogier not coming to a stedding. This means that if in seanchan, there are ogier who either never left their stedding or found them soon after the braking, then they wouldnt even know about the longing, and therefore, of course, not have it. Or it could be that the longing is not a disease or anything at all, it is just a thought. Ogier live in the peace of stedding, and maybe the longing only develops if they find nothing more important to follow. Maybe Seanchan ogier thought that serving the empire was more important than the peace of the steddings
8
Jiana: 2003-04-26
First of all, the Breaking happened everywhere. If something happens on that magnitude, it can't be confined to just the one area. I agree with the idea that the Longing is just a thought, not an actual disease. The Ogier that we are most familiar with have grown up and been raised with the idea that if one leaves the Stedding for too long, they will sicken and die because of the Longing (which, I might add happened BEFORE they found the stedding again). To me, it is like the Aiel tradition of veiling before they kill. It isn't something that is necessary, only something that always has been and nothing else seems right. I agree that if an Ogier finds some other, more important path to follow, they will not be affected by the Longing. Take Loial for instance. He has been out of the stedding for approximately five years. He has only mentioned the Longing once, and he said it wasn't that bad. He has a more important path to follow: tracking and helping the Dragon Reborn and our other ta'veren. I think the Longing basically started as homesickness, and grew (in their minds only) into something else.
9
Callandor: 2003-04-26
BWB, Chapter 21, The Ogier, page 194:
**During the Breaking the land and sea shifted so dramatically that the stedding were lost or swallowed entirely. Those Ogier that survived wandering in search of their lost sanctuaries. Among the Ogier this time is known as the Exile. After many years their Longing for the peace and beauty that only existed within the stedding became so strong that they began to sicken and die. Many more died then did not. Since that time the Ogier do not leave the stedding for extensive periods. If an Ogier stays Outside for too long, the Longing takes him and he begins to weaken. If he does not return, he dies. Though this was not true during the Age of Legends, the long Exile apparently sensitized the Survivors and their decendants so that all Ogier are now bound to the stedding.**
During the Breaking the Exile started. This created the Longing for the stedding.
10
Murrin: 2003-09-23
In tPoD Furyk Karede has a PoV where he is thinking about the Deathwatch - he says that Ogier Gardeners are not marked or owned 'but that's between them and the Empress'. This implies some kind of agreement the Seanchan ruler has with the Ogier - maybe they only place their people into the Deathwatch Guards in return for something, perhaps to be left apart from the Empire (Luthair couldn't have taken his damane into stedding, but he still had armies, and wanted to make everything a part of Seanchan).
11
Sidhe: 2003-12-11
Not really a theory or adding to a theory, but a question: What would happen if the Peaceful Ogier meet the Seanchan Warrior Ogier?
And i think this actually WILL happen. (like all the other things RJ put in the books as clues, this might be/is one as well...)
