orgase and the Timeless Look
by Tigraine: 2002-12-18 | Not yet rated
Although this is little more than a passing observation, really, I have found it curious that throughout the series, RJ has made it very clear that Aes Sedai have the "ageless" look associated with the Oath Rod while those channelers without the Three Oaths simply gain the "timeless" look around their 26th year of life more or less.
The Wise Ones have the timeless look, as do the Kin and the Windfinders. However, I don't believe that Morgase has the timeless look that should have overtaken her years ago. Here are a few quotes to support this idea:
"Morgase had her daughter's beauty, matured and ripened. Her face and figure, her presence, filled the room with a light that dimmed the other two with her." [tEotW, Chapter 40: The Web Tightens]
"Gaping, he [Rand] watched her [Elayne] go, a younger version of Morgase's beauty and majesty." [tEotW, Chapter 40: The Web Tightens]
"When she [Morgase] touched the Captain-General's arm with her left hand, a ring in the shape of the Great Serpent, eating its own tail, glittered. Yet it was not the grandeur of clothes or jewelry or even Crown that drew Rand's eyes again and again: it was the woman who wore them." [tEotW, Chapter 40: The Web Tightens]
"She [Morgase] had Elayne's face and beauty, but it was what Elayne would have when she had ripened. Every other woman in the courtyard faded into the background by her very presence." [tDR, Chapter 46: A Message Out of the Shadow]
"Morgase kept her face smooth with difficulty. Niall's news last evening, during one of his surprise visits, had come as a shock. Galad was a Whitecloak!" [LoC, Chapter 9: Plans]
Using these quotes as examples, notice that none of them ever mention timelessness or agelessness or anything associated with the One Power, yet she channels (albeit weakly) and wears a Great Serpent ring. I find it odd that even if she did have the timeless look, no one has commented on it. In fact, they say she looks "matured" compared to Elayne, when, in fact, she should look like an older sister if she were timeless.
Is there any explanation for this that I might have missed, or is this just some fluke that has gone unnoticed, as far as I can tell?
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1
Tamyrlin: 2002-12-19
Without looking for quotes it is my understanding that Morgase went to the White Tower to train, but never became more than a novice. If I remember correctly, all novices receive a ring which has to be worn in one place. When they are full Aes Sedai, they can wear it anywhere. Morgase received a ring, which she uses to establish her connection to the Tower, because the normal people would have no idea that she wasn't full Aes Sedai, but she never took the oaths and wouldn't have the ageless look. Sorry that I am not quoting the books, but I believe this is your answer. :)
2
Callandor: 2002-12-19
Im not sure but I think Morgase got as far as a Novice, given the ring like Tamylin says but another thing that might have to deal with it is the fact that Morgase is a weak channeler and from the books we can see she has trouble even reaching the source, forgive me I do not have quotes, and she doesnt even do it that often, i think the last time she did it was liek 10 years ago or something but I could easily be wrong. So if the ageless look is caused by the Oath Rod, which is a certainty, and the timeless look is caused by channeling for a long time, it could be assumed that due to the fact that Morgase is a really weak channeler that the timeless look doesnt even come to her. Also the fact that she doesnt channel often could be a factor. I seem to remember when Elyane was telling Nyneave about Slowing, or the timeless look, that it comes with years of channeling. So Morgase probably doesnt qualify for that, but its hard to compare due to the fact that we dont have many other references to novices as old as her. Not saying shes an old hag ;-).
3
Mairashda: 2002-12-19
ah...apart from that, even the slowed aging. depends on the chanellers frequency of channeling and her/his strength. we know about morgase that she only manages to touch the source about one time out of every 50 attempts... (sorry, can't find the quote right now).
oh...and was not morgase receiving the ring only a special recognition of her "services" to the tower after she had been crowned queen of andor?
4
Dragons Shadow: 2002-12-19
Just a quick note. Novices don't receive Great Serpent rings. The placing of the ring on the girls finger is the last part of the accepted testing ceremony and symbolically seals them to the tower.
Morgase on the other hand didn't even receive her ring until after she had left the Tower, when it became clear that she would become queen. It is ALWAYS given to the Daughter - Heir, even if she cannot channel, as a token for Andor's long standing support of the Tower. 8')
5
Callandor: 2002-12-20
Ah... thank you. I wasnt sure about the novices recieving the ring but oh well. Thing is that if its always given to the daughter heir then Morgase wouldve only gotten it as queen then right? Because of the sucession termoil? I dunno Im prolly just reading this wrong.
6
Fel: 2002-12-21
Here's the quote you were looking for, I think
LoC prologue
Morgase held herself straight. "Arrest me? On what charge? I cannot channel." No sooner were the words out of her mouth than she nearly clicked her tongue in exasperation. She should not have mentioned channeling; that she had put herself on the defensive was an indication of how flustered she was. It was true, what she had said, so far as it went. Fifty times trying to sense the True Source to find it once, and when found, twenty times attempting to open herself to saidar in order to catch a dribble once. A Brown sister named Verin had told her that there was hardly any need for the Tower to hold her until she learned to handle her tiny ability safely. The Tower did anyway, of course. Still, even that much ability to channel was outlawed in Amadicia, the penalty death. The Great Serpent ring on her hand that so fascinated Ailron now seemed hot enough to glow.
7
oldmanfish: 2002-12-26
What exactly is the "timeless" look supposed to refer to?
Only the Aes Sedai have any unusual appearance.
All other channellers just look younger than they really are.
8
Callandor: 2002-12-27
The Ageless look is refering to Aes Sedai who have sworn the 3 oaths on he Oath Rod. The Timeless look is from people like the Kin who have been channeling a long time but havent sworn the oaths, its the **slowing** effect that all people who channel get.
9
Machera: 2003-07-30
Morgase cannot really channel. In one of the books it says that she wnet to the tower to train but cannot channel more then a novice less i think. It also says that she got her ring after she won the lion thron to strengthen the ties between Tar Valon and Andor, (in the fires of heaven when she is looking at the minurature in Lini's apartment)
10
Callandor: 2003-07-30
Morgase can channel, its just a very, very difficult thing for her to do. She says it takes 10 or 20 times to embrace saidar and another 50 or so times to even do anything with it.
11
spearmaiden: 2003-07-31
Ok, someone above asked when Morgase got her ring. I just listened to it (in tFoH), and she got it either when she became queen or sometime during the process of her becoming queen, as a symbol of the good relationship between Andor and the Tower.
As mentionned above, Morgase can barely even grasp the source, so she probably wouldn't have slowed much at all, but even if she were as strong as Nynaeve, she wouldn't have a special "timeless look." The Kin (and other non-AS channelers) have no distinctive look to them, they just look much much younger than they are. But they look completely normal. Not timeless in any way shape or form.
12
Jiana: 2003-08-06
Morgase not be able to channel much at all, however IMO, the small amount that she IS able to channel has affected her appearance somewhat. I base this on the prologue of aCoS, when she and Pedron Niall are playing stones. He thinks to himself that she did not appear old enough to have a daughter Elayne's age, much less a son Gawyn's age.
13
Deadsy: 2003-09-21
She looks younger than normal, like Nynaeve does. Perrin thinks to himself in POD that she looks 10 years older than him, which is impossible since he's about the same age as Gawyn. So she's around 39 and looks around 31 I think.
