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oridin Playing Both Sides?

by Daishan: 2003-01-01 | Not yet rated

Previous Categories: Miscellaneous Theories

Just to open up a discussion; is anybody any further than I am on Moridin's comment that he "plays both sides of the board"? He says this somewhere in I think aCoS or PoD or something. Most will remember more specifically than I do anyway. Many people believe that it was Moridin who helped Rand in Shadar Logoth when he almost fell. I tend to agree. But this in itself can hardly be called "playing two sides of the board".

By the way, let's define "playing both sides of the board". It sounds like Moridin is saying he is both aiding Rand and helping the DO but this really makes no sense since he appears to be the most loyal Forsaken. This is really not a theory just a bunch of questions that have puzzled me for some time now. If anybody has any idea what I'm talking about please feel free to jump in because I feel I'm not making any sense.

Like I said; just to start a discussion.... :-)

So:

1. What are the "two sides of the board", and

2. If 1. is "help Rand" and "help DO" then what has Moridin done to help Rand, besides the SL incident?

Another question, somewhat derived from 2.; could Moridin be Taim?

The timeline seems correct to me and Taim is definitely playing both sides of the board, but I haven't seen any further evidence so... anyone?

That's all, please tell me what you think.

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Comments

Tamyrlin: 2003-01-01

When Ishy talks about playing both sides, it would seem to me that the DO wants him to do so. I don't think Ishy is playing the DO, instead, he is helping out both sides in an attempt to get Rand the forces that fight for the light into the positions the Dark One wants them in...in some cases this requires Ishy to provide "help." As to Ishy being Taim, I don't believe it is likely. Ishy, like Demandred, is a general, and wouldn't have time to be spending as Taim. Sorry, other ideas anyone?

Daishan: 2003-01-02

Well actually I agree with you that it's quite unlikely that Taim is Ishy, but I'm still puzzled by the "two sides" quote. Where else could Ishy have "helped" Rand? And if the two sides of the board are both "pro-DO" (which is of course most likely), then what are they? Maybe we have to look at where he dispatches his Forsaken?

There is by the way multiple references about Rand having to stay alive for the LB. I mean not only by the "good guys". Ishy remarks on it as well I think and one of the first ones that springs to mind is the BA Aes Sedai at the end of WH. She's on to something. RJ makes it sound as if she has just discovered something absolutely essential about the LB. The DO actually WANTS Rand, NEEDS Rand to fight the LB. WHY?!?!

Well, this turns out to be more of a "request-for-theories" than a theory, but please reply.

Callandor: 2003-01-02

Ishy could have "helped" Rand in the earlier books because he had chances to kill him and didnt. He was trying to convert him to the dark. As for like direct helping as like the SL inncident, I dont really know of any. But isnt that the point of mot getting much insight into the Forsaken?

WinespringBrother: 2003-01-02

Remember, the object of the game is to control the Fisher (Rand). This can be direct control (manipulation or kidnapping) or indirect (controlling circumstances that he reacts to). During most of the series, he has been mainly reacting to the actions of others around him - the White Tower, the Black Tower, the Rebel Aes Sedai, the Forsaken, the Seanchan, the Aiel, Nobles, the Shaido and the Whitecloaks (the Kin, the Sharans, the Seafolk, and the Tinkers don't seem to be to active in this regard). All these forces are ultimately trying to control Rand to one degree or another, and Moridin is saying he is manipulating all of them in some fashion.

Daishan: 2003-01-03

That sounds like a good explanation to me. But the "two sides" should be like Saidar/Saidin I think (judging from Moridin's comment); opposite, and together all compassing...

What could these sides be then? White Tower/Black Tower? Perhaps. Then Ishy needs puppets in both. I don't think he's in control of Mesaana OR the BA. He could be behind Taim though...

I somehow believe that Ishy means "killing Rand" versus "making sure Rand meets DO at the LB". But why? Again; what is Rand supposed to do at the LB? Moridin seems to think they can set the DO free with Rand or something like it. But why with Rand? Why doesn't he do it himself? Maybe Rand can be turned if he channels directly at the Bore?

Sigh.... RAFO I guess.

Lewin: 2003-06-13

The reason Moridin/ishy helped Rand in SL was becuse Rand isn't allowed to die.. so it wasn't no goodwill job...

anderwarrick: 2003-06-14

Okay, the DO is having Moridin help Rand get to the last battle. He is doing it because Rand would probably take the Choeden Kal(sp?) with him and then Moridin would come and use the TP Compulsion on Rand to break the DO's prison. Then the DO could kill Rand himself. I think that that is why Moridin is playing both sides.

The Leveler: 2003-06-14

The Forsaken have been told not to kill Rand. That means the DO wants to turn him.

Shadow Bane: 2003-06-14

anderwarrick has a good idea maybe Moridin as Naeblis is just sopposed to see Rand to the Last battle so the DO can defeat him, seems to east though...sigh

Callandor: 2003-06-14

The Forsaken are on a kill if needed basis for Rand. If you dont need to kill him, they dont. If they do, they can.

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