1
Tamyrlin: 2000-11-18
Is this the Old Man Mat saw out in front of Carridin's place a few books ago? RJ does seem to be wanting us to believe its Jain.
2
Son of the Nine Suns: 2000-11-26
First off, I wish to show how Noal (the man who fought with Mat
against the gholam) is the man in the barrel who was in front of
Carridan's. Both were described as having a 'hooked nose' and both
carry knives on them. I also believe that Noal is Jaim Farstrider.
First, the age fits pretty well Noal is described as being old and gray-haired
and Jaim must be at least sixty. Secondly, Noal is descrbed as
a master storyteller, with something like 'a gleeman's ability to
make you feel as though you are there.' This compares to the
book that Jaim wrote which was a bestseller across Randland. And
last of all, Noal tells a lot of stories about Shara, and in the Guide,
it was stated that Jaim had been to Shara.
3
Shen539: 2000-12-03
The old man is Jain Farstider. Think about it. We know Jain "vanished" in NE 981, from the glossary in The Eye of the World, which puts him about the right age, would explain why he was watching Carridin (only real story about jain is how he captured a Makieri darkfriend). Also in WH the old man was amusing the Redarms with stories of his travels, which seems to suggest a link. Besides, it doesn't seem like R.J.'s style to say that a few decades ago a hero vanished and never re-appeared.
4
oldmanfish: 2002-11-06
Don't forget, Jain Farstrider's real last name is Charin, the same as Noal's
! Fairly big clue, yes?
5
potatoman: 2002-11-07
Is he the same old man, that seemed so out of place in Graendel's Domani palace?
The same one who Ishamael dismisses as thinking he had escaped him, the same who turned up at Stedding Shangtai all beaten and broken talking about the Dark One attempting to "kill the great serpent"?
No? Oh sorry.
6
oldmanfish: 2002-11-12
This idea is a little more "out there" than my usual thoughts, but it fits.
Gaidal Cain.
I like Olver for Gaidal Cain, but why not Noal/Jain Charin Fairheart Farstrider?
He is a big enough hero to be Horn material.
I seem to recall his using two swords before his hands were smashed, but I haven't found the reference.
The only reason we think Gaidal Cain is young is because Birgitte thinks so. We don't really know how T'A'R works, but we do know it screws time up, and if Moggy had a hand in it, she could have chucked him out 70 years ago easily. Furthermore, Birgitte is in the form she had in T'A'R, when Moggy tossed her out. What if she keeps that form forever? If she stayed young and alive forever, forced to watch Gaidal Cain grow old and die in front of her, over and over (if she could find him), I think that would fulfill Moggy's promise to make Birgitte weep (virtually) alone for as long as the Wheel turns.
( I told you it was a bit out there. But it still makes sense...)
7
Jeebus: 2002-11-17
Jain Farstrider being Gaidal Cain reborn is an interesting thought. Since time has no meaning in Tel'aran'rhiod, it could mean that Birgitte was destined to be reborn around the same time as Jain, but Moggy messed up the Wheel's plan and rippped her out into the present. The use of being skilled with two swords previously fits. It would be interesting to see what happens when Noal and Birgitte meet up...
8
silverwolf: 2002-12-12
I was wondering if everyone had forgotten about "Old Cully," the darkfriend from ACoS. It would make sense for a darkfriend to attach himself to one of the taveren, and Noal matches the descriptions of Old Cully that we have. Note: this doesn't mean that he isn't Jain Farstrider. Baalzamon mentions "Jain Farstrider, whom I painted like a fool and sent to the Ogier thinking he was free of me." That seems to indicate he was still tied to Ishy in some way, possibly as a darkfriend? Before you tell me he brought other darkfriends to justice, he could have betrayed them because they weren't following orders from the DO or because they were interfering with his work.
9
Darren: 2003-01-13
Honestly, the whole Noal = Jain contingent are starting to convince me, but I still have reservations. I know his horse Jeade'en would be long dead, but this Noal seems to take pride in doing everything on foot, and the horse was Jain's constant companion. We also never see him write, and that was a pretty big part of the JF thing... he wasn't a gleeman, he was an author.
I'm losing my reservations to this theory, but they aren't ALL gone.
P.S. As to Old Cully, jason "wolfbrother" rightly pointed out to me the difference in description to me between Old Cully and Noal (in the source texts) in the other thread of this argument. It ain't the same guy.
10
Theron: 2003-02-04
It seems kind of out there, but I think that the theory that Noal charin is Jain Farstrider. The evidence presented in the replies is very good proof. However, I would like to remind everyone that, according to Moiraine, Jain Farstrider is a darkfriend! She mentioned this somewhere between the end of the first book and the forth. When I have time, I will go back and get the exact quote for everyone.
11
Dedicated: 2003-02-08
Yes, Theron, I was wondering when the whole darkfriend situation would be brought up. If Noal=Jain Farstrider, then he could present future problems for Mat. Is he a spy for a Forsaken? He's up to no good if he's a darkfriend anyway. I personally believe Noal is Farstrider. It all fits so well.
12
jason wolfbrother: 2003-02-08
Where exactly is it said that Farstrider is a darkfriend? "When Cowin Fairheart's treachery was revealed and he was taken by young Jain Charin - already called Jain Farstrider".(TEotW) Jain revealed Fairheart for a darkfriend. Yes he was used by Ishy but if he had to be used then he wouldn't be a df. If he was a df then Ishy would simply have given him orders. The fact that he was "painted for a fool" enforces this point.
13
Dedicated: 2003-02-09
Touche, jason wolfbrother. I checked this after reading your post. It WAS Fairheart that was the hero and darkfriend. Farstrider exposed him. Moiraine never said Farstrider was a darkfriend. Mat mentions that Noal has a very dark view of things though, so I'm not convinced his intentions are good.
14
Theron: 2003-02-10
Oop's! Sorry guys. I went back and checked and you were right, looks like Jain Farstrider (Noal Charin) is not a darkfriend. However, Noal does have a very grim view of things and even having been manipulated by the shadow once, is it not possible that he is being used once agian, by the shadow or someone else. Which raises questions of the nobility of his service with Mat.
And where has Noal charin (as Jain Farstrider) been for all those years. I suppose it is possible that he was in Shara (or whatever) but I find that hard to believe based on how everyone speaks about how difficult it is to gain entrance to Shara. So, if not in Shara, where has Jain Farstrider been?
15
Callandor: 2003-02-10
Noal seems to be having a little bit of memory problems so he could've easily been wondering around aimlessly for a long time just wondering who the heck he was and it clicked in his mind in Ebou Dar.
16
Graendalboytoy: 2003-02-11
Doesn't Charin also show the same symptoms as Morgase after she had compulsion used on her...i.e. headaches,memory loss, and dizzy spells. This would imply that Graendal,and Ishy for that matter,have been using compulsion on him,and he is only now beginning to be free of it. Just because the shadow has compelled him in the past does not make him a darkfriend. He may have just been in Ebou Dar hunting darkfriends like Carridin. He's hunted darkfriends before, and what better way to get back at the people who have been using him all this time.
17
Jiana: 2003-04-13
YES, Noal does show the major symptom of compulsion, the memory loss. As spry and sharp as he seems to be, I do not believe that it is senility. I posted this elsewhere, but this particular theory hasn't had any attention in awhile. In the early books, when we first meet Graendal as she Travels to the meeting of the Forsaken in T'A'R, there is a gnarled old man sitting on the floor of the room she Traveled from. Rhavin's PoV mentioned that he seemed incongruous with all the rest of Graendal's pretties. It is my conviction that THIS IS NOAL and NOAL IS JAIN FAIRSTRIDER. He is not a darkfriend but is being used by the shadow. I am surprised no one else has brought up this old man from Graendal's room....
18
heronblade: 2003-06-04
Callandor-"Noal seems to be having a little bit of memory problems"
Could Gaidal Cain have ripped himself out of the dream to follow B but is now suffering the same memory losses?
19
Jiana: 2003-07-10
Heronblade, Cain could not be following Birgitte, because he left TAR *before* Birgitte did.
20
brother of Battles: 2004-07-12
Is everyone forgetting that the old guy (persumably Noal/Jain) sitting outside Carridin's place in aCoS said that he was going to sit here all until he found Carridin's Killer. Carridin didn't die until the end of PoD so how did The Old Man know Carridin was going to die?
21
Zader: 2004-07-15
brother of Battles.
I assume you are talking about this line "He would stay here until dark, he decided, then see whether he could find Carridin's pretty little killer again."
I took this line to mean, The killer Carridin used, to do his killing. It also may have been a foretelling as Lady Shiaine, aka Mili Skane is the one to order Carridin's death. (TPOD ch 28)
22
brother of Battles: 2004-07-16
Zader:
You might be right about the old man wanting to find the person Carridin used to kill people, but it still seems to me that somehow Noel/Jain knew Carridin was going to die just not by who. And there was/is some signifigance to who it was that killed Carridin, at least to Noel/Jain.
If it is that he knew Carridin was going to die though, it brings up several questions as to how he knew. Could it be that he is one of those rare men Dreamers? Maybe he was around an Aes Sedai when she had a fortelling. Or perhaps it is some kind of talent RJ is just now utilizing. Maybe something kind of like Min's viewing.
Just food for thought.
23
Callandor: 2004-07-16
**Is everyone forgetting that the old guy (persumably Noal/Jain) sitting outside Carridin's place in aCoS said that he was going to sit here all until he found Carridin's Killer. Carridin didn't die until the end of PoD so how did The Old Man know Carridin was going to die?**
He didn't.
**TITLE: A Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: 17 - The Triumph of Logic
He would stay here until dark, he decided, then see whether he could find Carridin's pretty little killer.**
Noal sat outside Carridin's location in Ebou Dar for a while, and Mili Skane, who was working at the time for Carridin, was bewing followed by Mat, who ran into Noal (who was the man on the barrel), who then picked up on Mili Skane, who is a self-confessed Darkfriend assassin.
24
Anubis: 2004-07-17
shaine was a darkfriend assassin. thats kinda what she did, so calling her carridins pretty little killer is most easily taken as one who kills for carridin. (almost put one who does carridins killing... stupid english language and your easy amabiguity)
25
TaoJ: 2004-12-17
Sorry, couldn't be botheres to read all the response to this but...of course Noel is Jain Farstrider! How could this be in any doubt? RJ has made his book(s) such an integral part of the mythology of the WOT world that anyone with the surname Charin (revealed to be his real surname at the very start of CoT) has to be him, notwithstanding the character's constant references to his experiances in the various different locations of the WOT world. The real question is: what is his role in the continuing story? No doubt this enigmatic character will have a major role in the unfolding of the saga, something tat I'm certainly looking forward to. Roll on October!
26
flayer: 2005-05-22
hey hey, i seem to remember one of the female Forsaken saying that to use a large compulsion 'web' would wreak the mind ... hmmm, interesting, no?
27
drz1649: 2005-05-23
I agree that Noal is Jain, the same surname confirms that. It would be very weak to find out he was somehow a previously unmentioned brother. Of course his knowledge of Shara only makes the assertion stronger.
I could be wrong, but Graendal's captive old man is King Alamalasan of Arad Doman, the ruler in who's name she is manipulating the Great Captain Rodel Idurotalde to whatever end.
I also agree Jain was the old man in front of Carridin's palace, and his reference to "Carridin's killer" was to Mili Skane/Lady Shiaine, meaning she was an assasin in his employ. That she would later kill him was no doubt a Jordanesque in-joke rather than some kind of male Foretelling.
However I think that Noal is not a good character. As others have noted his memory loss and apparently tortured body as evidence of captivity/manipulation by the Forsaken.
The Guidebook states that Jain's last known whereabouts - before Noal's appearance - were the Blasted Lands near Shayol Ghul around the time of the Aiel War/Rand's birth. This implies Ishamael (the only then-free Forsaken). Combine this with his confused state and Ishamael's reference to Jain (quoted above), and I worry that he is an unwitting spy for the Forsaken. Though what his purpose may be I have no idea.
28
JakOShadows: 2005-05-23
All of you are talking about Noal being weak, and it can be a valid reason. But he still seems very agile and able to fight. It seems like if compulsion were used on him for 25 years it would have more of an effect.
29
Canan Urgas: 2006-05-17
quote"Is he the same old man, that seemed so out of place in Graendel's Domani palace?" potatoman pleae can you get a page/book number on that bit pal i need to check that out
