1
Tamyrlin: 2002-11-20
I would imagine that there are other continents that we haven't even been told of, like further than Shara and the like. Which would lead us to believe that the focus is in this area so much because of Shayol Ghul and the concentration of channelers being from this area because it used to be their power base.
2
Therilon: 2002-11-21
I meant that the 'world' being the known world that is on the WOT book maps.
Also, I found a bit more proof.
"Enough ships for what?" Noal said. "I never saw so many in one place before." That was quite a statement, coming from him. To hear Noal tell it, he had seen everything, and nearly always bigger or grander than what was in front of his nose. Back home, they would have said he kept tight purse-strings on the truth."
and, "He claimed that if he could find the right peppers, he was going to make a fish stew – from Shara, of all places! As well say from the moon!"
I think that this gives us proof that Noam is Jain Farstrider.
RJ put a large emphasis on the books. He always had Rand saying have you read the Travels of Jaim Farstrider, it's one of my favorite books. Mat was saying that he hadn't read that book. It might be flavour, but it is probably more substantual than that.
3
Darren: 2003-01-10
I always thought Noal was the old Darkfriend who kept Shiaine/Milli so thoroughly in line. That same darkfriend hasn't been seen around her in her new position.
I think it would be interesting if Noal was Farstrider. Heck, it's even possible that JF might now be a darkfriend, since Ishy pretty much stated that he had gotten to JF.
4
Callandor: 2003-01-10
That can be speculated at. Ishy also got to Author Hawkwing. In the Guide on page 114 it talks about a guy named Jalwin Moerad who was an advisor to Hawkwing (right off the bat this sounds like a Forsaken, very close to a high power and behind that power not the actual power).
**He[Moerad] maintained that position until Hawkwings death despite frequent long absences,a violate temper, and a temperment that more then one obverver recorded as **more then half insane****.
Now, just the dates alone, about 1000 years before present date, inplies Ishy. However that **more then half insane** is the classic phrase that describes him. Heck, even Demandred says hes half nuts.
**An odd note: The writer claims that Moerad never aged from the day he first appeared to the day he vanished, abruptly, some forty years later**.
No aging. CLASSIC sign of a channeler. And NO ONE, not even the Children of the Light, the Seanchan, heck even the Mayeners call Hawkwing a Darfriend.
And Rahvin also was right by Morgase and messing with her. Some, like the Children, would call her a Darkfriend, but the reader knows that she is just a poor person under the effects of Complusion.
So just because Ishy got to Farstrider doesnt mean that hes a Darfriend.
5
Darren: 2003-01-10
Exactly. I am not saying "Jain Farstrider must be a Darkfriend." Just that he might possibly be, if he is even still alive. And even that is based on Ishamael's words, who is hardly a reliable or unbiased source.
I DO however, think Noal is a Darkfriend. If they are the one and the same remains to be seen, for me.
6
jason wolfbrother: 2003-01-10
"Old Cully" is the darkfriend working for Carridin and keeping Shiaine in check. He is not Noal Charin. "Old Cully only has one eye and no teeth. While Noal is missing some of his teeth he has both eyes. Noal is also the old man watching Falion's warders dump the body. Noal is trying to track down "Carridin's pretty little killer"
7
DeathWalking: 2003-02-05
So far, this is pretty unconvincing. Most statements have been, "Noal is good at knives and he is the right age of Jain"...well, look at it this way, Thom is excellent with knives, and he is about the right age...now obviously, Thom has his history and part of his story laid out for us, so we know its not him. But taking in consideration of the time and place that Randland occurs in, if you are a vagabond, you better know how to use knives or you wont last long. So far, this is pretty suspect evidence.
8
Elder Haman: 2003-02-05
Except that Farstrider's name is Jain Charin (from tEotW- the story of the fall of the Malkori). Noal Charin, Jain Charin? Not that hard to connect the dots.
9
Tigraine: 2003-02-05
Two points for Jain = Noal:
1) Jain Farstrider went by the real name of Jain Charin. Don't believe me? Read the blurb before the prologue of CoT or the BWB. What name does Noal go by in both WH and CoT? Noal Charin.
2) Both Noal and Jain are described as having "knobby" hands, "missing teeth," and they both seem to know far too much about Shara and other exotic lands. Both Jain and Noal also paint Shara to be a very secretive land ... but they agree that there are men with their "faces on their bellies." Given Noal could have just read some Farstrider a while back and quoted that... it just seems to perfect to me.
10
Jiana: 2003-03-19
Okay... Callandor, the one who got to Hawkwing wasn't Ishamael, but it was Mordeth/Ordeith/Fain. The anachronym JM is also used for Jeraal Mordeth, in present times. Mordeth hates Aes Sedai, and Moerad turned the Hawkwing against Tar Valon. As for Noal, does anyone remember in the early books, when we first meet Graendal, there was a gnarled old man sitting in the room where she Traveled from. He seemed "incongruous" with all of Graendal's "pretties." He seemed to be a beggar. This, of course, could mean that the old man was/is a darkfriend, and could also fit in with the theories that Noal is Jain Fairstrider, and Fairstrider had turned to the shadow. Notice how RJ seems to always have a darkfriend or one of the Forsaken in disguise close to our ta'veren.
11
Darren: 2003-05-09
What I don't like about this forum is that the moderators won't let me say, you're right and I was wrong, which to me is an essential aspect of critical debate. I was wrong about Noal being "Old Cully." Thanks for clearing that up for me.
12
Jalwin Moerad: 2003-05-09
It might be me, but I was under the impression that Farstrider is dead. Doesn't Ishy imply that he is dead?
13
Callandor: 2003-05-09
Jiana it was Ishy. Mordeth was bound in Shadar Logoth till as soul he could capture came along, he took/merged with Fains soul. Shadaor Logoth collapsed under Mordeth about 1000 years BEFORE Hawkwing. Fain made it so he could leave SL 1000 years after Hawkwing.
Dates dont even come CLOSE to matching for Hawkwing to be under Mordeths compulsion. But they match up surprisingly well, and not to mention the non-aging point, the frequent disapperances, AND the half insane personality.
I know NO ONE else besides Ishamael that comes close to matching those 3 key points.
14
Flinn: 2003-05-10
on the darkfriend theory, maybe Noal was the old man watching that palace earlier in Ebou Dar
15
araqyl: 2003-05-12
A bit more support for Noal being Farstrider (although circumstantial only) - when in his POV for a while in Ebou Dar, he muses on his hands no longer being strong enough for a sword, but still fast enough for knives - implying that he used to wield a sword quite well, something rare in the southern parts of the Westlands except for lords, soldiers, and adventurers.
Although Noal could just be an old Hunter for the Horn whose tale has never been told - perhaps a relative of Farstrider, given the same surname, but that could be coincidence. There's no hint how common Charin is as a surname...
16
Jiana: 2003-05-21
I apologize Callandor, you are correct, the dates do not match up. I had just always assumed that it was Mordeth (or whatever his name is) because of the way he gets close to rulers and manipulates them to chaotic ends and such.
17
Eternal: 2003-11-18
I have a problem with this theory. Moiraine(I think) told a story about Lan's history, telling that Jain Farstrider was alive at the time of either a) Lan's father, or b)Lan's grandfather. I dont think that people are spun out that quickly. That would be like every 30-40 years or so, you would be reborn. Add that to Noal's age, that would mean that Farstrider was like reborn within 10 years after he died. This is my first response on Thoeryland, so tell me what you think about it.
18
wolfbrother369: 2003-11-18
1. Even though Aridhol became SL 1000yrs before. I think its still possible that it was mordeth was the one who turned Hawking against the Aes Sedai (not necessarily that it was just that it is possible).
The Aes Sedai speak of what would happen if mordeth were freed into the world as if they know of it from past experience (you know their secret histories). Mordeth could have stolen the soul/body of some unlucky wanderer 1000 yrs ago 1000 yrs after Aridhol fell influenced Hawking against Aes Sedai, then was killed somehow. And because his soul is so strongly bound to SL it was sent back to SL to await the next unlucky wanderer (Padan Fain). Now that SL is destroyed, he will most likley go into the afterlife fully when he is killed this time.
2. When someone is reborn they don't maintain there identity so I don't think anyone is suggesting that JF has been reborn regardless of the amount of time involved between appearances. Also I don't recall any specific references to how old JF was and when. Supposing that JF was around 20-30 when Malkier was betrayed he would be just right to be NC between 60-70.
19
Anubis: 2003-11-18
also ishy gives a speach. i wispered in hawkwings ear and aes sedai died, i wispered again and sealed 2 dooms one then and another yet to come. ok i butchered it but you get the point. Ishy has bragged about being the one to mess up hawkwings plans.
20
Anubis: 2003-11-18
oooh and farstrider was a young man when malkier fell (also lans birth)
i dont know ages really but id put that 20-30 and put lan at most 40, so farstrider would be 60-70 years old. its doable.
21
minorleaguer17: 2003-12-07
Farstrider is also the same old man who gave the same message in the stedding in EotW about blinding the Eye of the world. He is not/ was not a darkfriend, compulsion has been used on him, Ishmael says that much, plus we can see from his own pov that he has very little memory of things, an obvious pointer to compulsion
22
Darren: 2004-03-28
Working my way through the series again....
When were the Travels of Jain Farstrider written, and were they originally written in "Common," or were they once in the Old Tongue?
In Winter's Heart, "An Unexpected Executioner," when Noal helps Mat out of the alley with the Gholam:
"He's down this alley!" a man shouted. "Follow me! Hurry! He'll get away!"
Mat later asks him where the people he was shouting to are, and Charin replies:
"I'm not certain anyone out there understood what I was shouting. It's hard enough understanding them."
Now, I've never given this much thought before, but looking back it seems likely that Charin was shouting in the OT (both the Gholam and Mat would have recognized it, and Mat has a history of never realizing it's the OT when it is.... )
Certainly, even with their slurred speech, the Seanchan would have recognized a cry for help... Tuon goes out of her way to illustrate how safe the streets are supposed to be...
Now, certainly Charin speaks "common" or he'd sure have a hard time blending, but I'm wondering.... How old IS Noal?
23
Callandor: 2004-03-29
**When were the Travels of Jain Farstrider written, and were they originally written in "Common," or were they once in the Old Tongue?
Now, certainly Charin speaks "common" or he'd sure have a hard time blending, but I'm wondering.... How old IS Noal?**
Circa 955 NE he was concidered "young", when he captured Cowin Fairheart as a Darkfriend. Young would be about Rand's age I would say, so roughly 20. So, quite roughly, around 935 NE he was born, so abou 65-66 years old.
And I think they were published in Common tongue, for simplicity of no one else really fluently speaking the Old Tongue to translate them into Common for the wide spread reading of them.
24
TheNetweaver: 2004-03-29
I like the thought on the Old Tongue, Darren. Birgitte pulled the same kind of trick on Mat at one point. Has Noal shown the ability to speak the Old Tongue that well, though? For me, this whole issue is still a RAFO, but I think it would be great if he turned out to be Farstrider.
25
minalth: 2004-03-30
I love the OT thing, works well, and who says that he wouldnt need to know the OT for his travels, what do people in Shara speak? could it be that some few people remembered the OT there as in randland, and it was used as an intermidiate language? I assume that in the AOL people traveled that far frequently, and spoke the same language.
26
Darren: 2004-04-03
I'm not sure he's really that young, Callandor...
As for the OT, we know Farstrider speaks it. He's listed as having translated the prophecies of the Dragon, in the preface to CoT, and the Gholam was kept in a stasis box since the age of legends, so it should only be able to speak the Old Tongue
(Although, this theory might wind up belonging to the "Errors in the Books" category, if I put too much more thought into it. Jordan has never really explained how the world switched from OT to "common," and it's a bit puzzling how the Forsaken all step out of their prison speaking common instead of the OT. Now, I know some dispensation can be made for Aginor and Balthamel, who were imperfectly bound, but Lanfear SAYS she was denied even dreams in her prison, so how does she just gain fluency at the drop of a thin dime? And even if we take the fantastic leap that the Power of the DO somehow gives them this knowledge, the Gholam would still only speak the OT.)
27
JollyW89: 2005-07-08
The Forsaken have been out of their prison since rand was a baby. One of the foresaken mention that istead of finding the dragon reborn when he was still a baby, they made places of power for themselves. It is also mentioned several times that the language that is spoken now is much easyer. Greandel is able to copy ppl's writting perfectly because that is easyer too.
28
Callandor: 2005-07-11
**The Forsaken have been out of their prison since rand was a baby.**
No. The Forsaken have not been free since Rand was a baby. Ishamael was freed from his prison a few years after Rand's birth, but the other Forsaken were not freed until after the end of The Eye of the World and before the beginning of The Great Hunt.
29
Zepher: 2005-07-23
I agree and was looking for this. It also said that the old man looked dejected (sad) and did no fit in with Grendels pretties.
30
Traveller: 2005-08-02
I don't think Farstrider is a DF; I always compared him to Artur Hawkwing- he is good, but is influenced somehow by bad- how tragic!
31
HeronMarkedBlade: 2006-06-27
Well, in one of the later books (i forget which) he admits he is related to Farstrider. However i do believe Noal is Jain, as im sure he doesnt mid lying now and again.
32
addled: 2010-04-17
I too believe noal is farstrider.
Farstrider is believed to have vanished without trace. I believe he was trapped in the world of the Finn.
And there might be some relationship between mats memories and the loss of his Another possible tangent in this line of thought is: Mat mentions in the last book that he believes the finn are in his head. maybe they in fact are. that this is how they cheat, by tying a line to every visitor and feeding off their memories. Moiraine might have helped jain escape the Finn but as a result of leaving he lost his memories(not all). She had seen this in the rings of rhuidean. She knew, so sent him on a trail that ensured he would encounter and then join with mat & thom; to then finally come bck and rescue her (btw i also believe that olver is supposed to sneak in to the TOGh, unknown to the rest, and plays a crucial role in the rescue( and yes he is gaidal; that age theory why he isnt is bull because T'O'D is mentione again and againas being screwy with time))
