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he Vileness

by Frenzy: 2003-02-14 | 9.36 out of 10 (33 votes)

Previous Categories: Black Ajah in the White Tower

Vileness theory (quotes are from the hardcovers, except for New Spring. Book:Chapter:Page) (Updated through aCoS, still working on incorporating info from the last 3 books. There isn't much, from what I've seen.)


Events from 15-20 years ago that can point to what the Vileness is:


~ Tamra Ospeny, Amyrlin Seat during the Aiel War, mysteriously dies.


~ Sierin Vayu, Tamra's successor, mysteriously dies.


~ Men and boys with a reputation of being ‘lucky' are mysteriously dying.


~ Morgase Trakand takes the Lion Throne in Andor.


~ The Grey Ajah was busy trying to make the ‘Grand Coalition' a permanent deal.


~ The Red Sitters: Toveine, Tsutama and Lirene, are de-chaired and sent into exile.


Cadsuane asks Merana and Annoura if they were involved with that Vileness [aCoS: 19:338] right after the Aiel War. So what is the Vileness?


This whole mess started with Gitara Moroso. She told Tigraine to go to the Aiel Waste, thus starting the Succession in Andor. I'm not quite sure how long the succession took, but it probably wasn't quick. Elaida glommed onto Morgase because of her Foretelling. So Elaida was probably away from the Tower during the period in question. I'm not sure how that fits into Toveine's 'slipped through the cracks' comment, yet. [PoD:26:513]


Gitara's Foretelling of the Dragon's Rebirth in the presence of Siuan, Moiraine and Tamra was another big starting point. Tamra swore the Accepted to secrecy, and sent them on a mission to find Rand. In New Spring, we see that Tamra also put several other sisters on the case, including Aisha, Valera, Ludice; Kerene Nagashi and Meilyn Arganya that Siuan & Moiraine knew of. [L3:NS: 61] All of these Sisters were killed, presumably by the Black Ajah. It's not known if Cadsuane was one of the sisters on the case or not.


There were several almost fronts that the Tower set up to explain the large number of sisters moving about the countryside. I'm not sure if this was accidentally or on purpose, but the actions of the Grey Ajah were one. The Grey Ajah was busy running around trying to make the Grand Coalition a permanent thing after the Aiel retreated. I doubt that could be considered Vile, but it would be a useful shield to protect the Searching sisters.


The shield that Moiraine was using was looking for widowed parents of infants born around the time of the Battle of the Shining Walls, to offer aid.


Another shield were rumors that there was a man channeling wandering around in the Borderlands [L:NS:642 from the FAQ, I haven't found it in the paperback yet]. This might explain why Cadsuane was loose in the Borderlands, since she's drawn to male channelers. Assuming she wasn't part of the Searching sisters. Also assuming she is not Black Ajah.


The Reds were out in force looking for men who could channel. But since this operation was pretty much secret it shouldn't be considered a shield.


We know from Alviarin's p.o.v. that she, Jarna Malari and the Black Ajah were involved with the murder of Tamra Ospeny. [aCoS:P:42] Tamra was “squeezed like a bunch of grapes—obtaining little juice.” It's highly likely that during her interrogation Tamra let slip that the Dragon had been reborn. But since the Black Ajah were focusing on lucky men and boys, they didn't know that the Dragon was an infant.


The Red Ajah were actively hunting down men who could channel, and gentling them on the spot. The Chronicles mention 16 male channelers found in the last twenty years. Elaida says 24. [aCoS:P:22] The eight not mentioned were probably victims of the Red's summary justice. There's a very strong chance that Thom Merrilin's nephew, Owyn, was one of those 8. Moiraine promised Thom a way to avenge Owyn. Siuan promised Logain a way to pull down the Red Ajah. They knew what was going on back then, since they were in the thick of it. Toveine Gazal was part of the Red's actions, and likely it's leader. “What had been done twenty years ago was necessary, and the Light burn all those who muttered that the Black Ajah must have been involved. It had been necessary and right, but Toveine Gazal had been driven from her chair in the Hall, and forced to howl for mercy under the birch, with the assembled sisters watching, and even the novices and Accepted witnessing that Sitters, too, lay beneath the law, though they were not told what law.” [Pod:26:513]


While wandering through aCoS, I got to the part where Seaine hooks up with Perava to start their Darkfriend hunt. [aCoS:32:517] :


Her friend waved her off. "You have no need to convince me, Seaine. I have been sure that the Black Ajah exists for...." Strangely, Perava became hesitant, peering into her teacup like a fortune-teller at a fair. "What do you know of events right after the Aiel War?"


"Two Amyrlins dying suddenly in the space of five years," Seaine said carefully. She assumed the other woman meant events in the Tower. Truth to tell, until being raised a Sitter nearly fifteen years ago, just a year after Perava, she had not given much attention to anything outside the Tower. And not that much inside, really. "A great many sisters died in those years, as I recall. Do you mean to say that the...the Black Ajah had a hand in that?" There; she had said it, and the name had not burned her tongue.


"I don't know," Perava said softly, shaking her head. "You've done well to wrap yourself deep in philosophy. There were...things...done then, and Sealed to the Flame." She drew a troubled breath.


This positively screams that Perava suspects what I've theorized: that the Black Ajah managed to convince the Red to go fanatic in the summary gentling of male channelers.


Jarna Malari was killed for overstepping herself. She was Keeper to Sierin Vayu, and probably kept up the Grey's mission in the field to keep the Black Ajah in the field searching for the Dragon Reborn. Since the Black sisters were killing off men and boys who were lucky, and the Reds were killing off men who could channel, and Ishamael wanted to turn Lews Therin during the War of Power, it's likely Ishamael killed Jarna for trying to kill the Dragon Reborn.


Sierin Vayu replaced Tamra on the Amyrlin Seat. Sierin was a Grey "With more than a bit of Red in her." She was also killed, but not by the Black. [aCoS:P:42] Sierin probably knew about the Red Ajah's seek and destroy operation, and approved of it. Alviarin mentions that it took two years to put an end to events started by Jarna's death. That's when Sierin was killed. Alviarin also wonders if Elaida was involved in Sierin's murder. Toveine wonders how Elaida slipped through the cracks when the other high ranking Red sisters were birched and exiled. Galina Casban remained unscathed in all of this, which points to Black Ajah involvement at some level. The great council of the Black Ajah had to pay in pain to convince Ishamael that they had no hand in killing Sierin. I wonder if Ishamael had plans for Sierin, or if he was still in discipline mode from killing Jarna for overstepping herself.


Here's another interesting quote [aCoS:19:338]:


...”He has a rage in him fit to burn the world, and he holds it by a hair. Push him too far off balance....Phaw! Al'Thor's not so hard yet as Logain Ablar or Mazrim Taim, but a hundred times as difficult, I fear.” Hearing those three names together clove Merana's tongue to the roof of her mouth.


“You have seen Logain and Taim both?” a staring Annoura said. “Taim, he is following al'Thor, so I hear.” Merana managed to swallow a relieved sigh. Tales of Dumai's Wells had not time to spread yet. They would, though.


"I do have ears to catch rumors, too, Annoura,” Cadsuane said acerbically. “Though I could wish I didn't, for what I hear of that pair. All my work thrown away to be done over. Others' as well, but I did my share.” ... Abruptly her voice hardened, and her gaze. “Were either of you involved in that...vileness...right after the Aiel War?”


From other parts of that quote I left out, mostly because they didn't apply, we know that Cadsuane was with the group that took down Logain and Taim, before Rand appeared. This might be the work that Cadsuane was referring to. I somehow doubt that's it, though. Her and the Other's work could be referring to the Searchers that Tamra had out looking for Rand. It could also be referring to the Black Ajah and their work looking for Rand.


Another, probably coincidental, thing, is that many Aes Sedai who think about Compulsion think about the "Vile" act of compulsion. This might be chasing jak-o-the-wisps, like people hunting down "Winter's Heart" quotes, but who knows.


[WH:13:307] Cadsuane's p.o.v.:


Once she had thought herself on the point of rooting out the Black only to watch her quarry slip through her fingers like smoke, her bitterest failure except possibly for failing to learn what Caraline Damodred's cousin had been up to in the Borderlands until the knowledge was years too late to do any good.


With this we can see that Cadsuane was indeed hunting down the Black Ajah during the time of New Spring. (Caraline Damodred's cousin being Moiraine, of course.) I think Cadsuane knew that the "vileness" was related to the Black Ajah, but it wasn't until years later that she learned that the Vileness was trying to kill the Dragon Reborn, not just male channelers.


So the Vileness is a tangled mess of Black and Red Ajahs, all searching for the Dragon Reborn. I'm almost positive that Galina Casban was involved deeply in this, since she's both, but I haven't found quotes to support this yet.



Additional Information:


point: Tigraine disappeared in 972 NE, which eventually led to the War of Succession in Andor.


point: Morgase gained the Lion Throne in 973 NE:
Dragon Reborn CHAPTER: 47 - To Race the Shadow


"Andor has a queen, lad. Always a queen. If Morgase and Elayne both died - the Light send it not so! - then Morgase's nearest female relative would take the throne. At least there is no question of who that is this time - a cousin, the Lady Dyelin - not like the Succession, after Tigraine vanished. It took a year before Morgase sat on the Lion Throne, then.


point: Elaida glommed onto Morgase as soon as she took the throne: Shadow Rising CHAPTER: 1 - Seeds of Shadow


"The very first thing Elaida had ever Foretold, while still an Accepted-and had known enough even then to keep to herself-was that the Royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle. She had attached herself to Morgase as soon as it was clear Morgase would succeed to the throne"


point: The Aiel War took place between 976-978 NE


Elaida probably avoided the post-Aiel War Vileness by staying in Andor with Morgase.
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Comments

1

Tamyrlin: 2003-02-15

Very well pieced together Frenzy. If only all theories were of this quality...we might actually get someplace in our studying and discussion. One of the most interesting parts is Elaida. She was never punished, but apparently she isn't Black Ajah, I wonder if it was her own devious nature that got her out of that. I think you are correct, the Vileness seems to be a mix of murdering Amyrlin's, gentling man "on the spot", and the Black Ajah pulling the strings. I'm surprised that Moiraine wasn't found out and killed by the Black Ajah, especially if the BA interrogated the Amyrlin that new of her mission? Thanks for posting this.

2

Graendalboytoy: 2003-02-15

Man....I'm jealous...Very nice

Could Elaida having a foretelling have helped her "slip through the cracks"? She might not have done anything to stop it because she knew events may lead to her being Amyrlin as well.

3

Elder Haman: 2003-02-15

Remember that Moiraine and Suian were recruited before they were raised Aes Sedai (by a few minutes). Therefore, I suspect that after giving the names of the other Seachers, Tamra held out during torture until she was asked a question similar to: "What other Aes Sedai did you recruit to seach for the Dragon?" and she responded, "I did not recruit any others." (She may even be able to say that she didn't recruit anyone else because she didn't have the intent to recruit Suian or Moiraine, they just overheard what they shouldn't).

4

Elder Haman: 2003-02-15

The Red were gentling men who could channel- but was that because the Black were trying to gentle the Dragon? Or was it just a method used by the Black to manipulate the Reds into searching for the Dragon without the Reds knowing what they were doing?

In New Spring the Black are not killing men who can channel- they are killing blacksmiths (who become community leaders), and lucky men- Perrin and Mat.

5

Jearom: 2003-02-18

I have just re-read New spring, it seems to me that the black are hunting down men who have a lucky reputation because the assumption is that they are manipulating situations with the one power.

This shows that they are probably working without any Saidin spotting Ter'angreal - otherwise they could have saved themselves alot of effort.

Could anyone pointnout the part about killing blacksmiths - I hadn't noticed anything like that.

6

Frenzy: 2003-02-18

I think the Black was manipulating the Red, Elder Haman. Which leads me to believe that Galina Casban was a key player in things, though i've yet to find anything that says that outright.

7

Great Lord of the Dark: 2003-02-25

I think vileness' is more a reflection of Cadsuane's feelings on certain matters. She has had a hand in gentling or finding more men than any number of Reds. She is not as rebellious as many Aes Sedai portray her. In Aes Sedai hierarchy, she stands highest, so she is entitled to do things her own way, but she puts the Tower first. Always. She shows contempt for the rebels who broke the Tower, and little patience for anyone who steps outside accepted behavior.

Thus, gentling men on the spot, is vile in her books, as well as being a personal insult since she made hunting male channelers her mission, even if she was a Green. Why? Because she realized that at some point the Dragon would come, and the Tower had better know as much as possible about the madness that would afflict him as they learn. She seems to have learned what she wanted to, because she retires after learning the Dragon had been reborn (some time after Siuan and Moiraine did, though how is not clear) and waits for him to proclaim himself.

Logain names himself Dragon and she goes to find him, only to decide he isn't the one. He is bundled off to Tar Valon, then she hears of Taim. Off to Saldaea she goes, figuring he is the real Dragon Reborn. Wrong again. She makes her way across the world to finally find Rand in Cairhien.Then she does what she has intended for probably the last century, maybe more. She sets about preparing Rand for the Last Battle, and help him deal with his madness and the voice in his head.

Guiding the Dragon Reborn is the Tower's responsibility and destiny, if not her own, according to Cadsuane. Gentling men away from the White Tower is a vile' affront to that work, and to all Aes Sedai. What if they had gentled the Dragon?

Why does Cadsuane ask about the other sisters' involvement with the vileness then? To make sure they understand what their work is to be, and who is in charge (like that was in doubt). Since they don't know she is disgusted that the whole affair was sealed to the Flame" and hushed up. Every Sister should have been told, so they wouldn't make the same mistake again, so they would know what their objective should be. The Aes Sedai Cadsuane brought with her are probably those who stood against the vileness' when it happened, and are therefore those she can trust with her mission.

8

Frenzy: 2003-06-04

GLotD: Cadsuane's perogatives aside, how do you reconcile Perava's conversation with Seaine? She's obviously talking about the same point in time, and i believe the same actions.

9

Great Lord of the Dark: 2003-06-05

You're talking about why Pevara knows about the Vileness? Let me offer the following scenario, and if that isn't what you're talking about you can correct me.

The Reds got crazy all those years back, and Cadsuane had gone back into retirement after the Aiel war. A stop was put to the whole affair, with Toveine and others kicked out of the Tower, the other Reds deeply damaged, so much so that five Blue Amyrlins in a row were raised after. Pevara is one of the Reds left behind, high enough to know the details of the punishment and the reasons for it, but not involved directly and thus spared any punishment herself.

From Pevara's POV, she believes these events had to be Sealed to the Flame to save the Tower from Breaking, to save the Red Ajah. Cadsuane would disagree. She thinks the whole Tower should have been made aware of why this was wrong, and a concerted effort to find the Dragon and bring him to Tarmon Gai'don safely. Once the Black Ajah slipped through her fingers, she may have realized that such a plan was risky for the Dragon, and then left to await his appearance.

So, Cadsuane believes as I posted earlier, Pevara believes in the Red, but not as fanatically as those who did vile things twenty or so years ago. I'm not sure I see where reconciling their POVs is required since they serve different Ajahs with different agendas. If I haven't addressed the question, maybe you could provide which comments of Pevara's seem contradictory to you?

10

Frenzy: 2003-06-05

You had said "I think vileness' is more a reflection of Cadsuane's feelings on certain matters." i took that to mean you didn't agree with my theory that the Vileness (and i used Cadsuane's term) was a Red conspiracy secretly fueled by the Black Ajah's hunt for the Dragon Reborn right after the Aiel War. That's why i asked you to reconcile Perava's comments with Cadsuane's.

11

Great Lord of the Dark: 2003-06-06

Ah yes, well I think I can still stand by what I said.

Cadsuane and Pevara both know that the reds went a little cuckoo in aggressively gentling men. These are actions Cadsuane considers 'vile.' Pevara as a Red Sitter has learned (or may have learned back when this all unfolded) the truth of what happened despite the secret being sealed to the Flame. She considers the overenthusiasm of the Red wrong, but not exactly vile. Toveine believes the actions the Reds took were necessary, though why it was suddenly imporatnt to gentle men without due process of Tower law is still a mystery.

So I don't necessarily see that the vileness has to be Cadsuane's belief of a Black Ajah plot, since the actions of reds themselves without Black Ajah involvement would still greatly offend her.

I also think the order in which she phrases her failures points to the rooting out of the Black coming before her meeting Moiraine, thus before the birth of the Dragon and the 'vileness'. I wonder since the Amyrlin had so few she could trust, would she risk sending a message to retired Cadsuane? Maybe. Maybe not.

Anyhow, the link between cadsuane's vileness and her nearly rooting out the black is not as strong as it could be. Cadsuane had retired before the vileness and only came back for the Aiel war, or because she had become a searcher for Tamra. She soon went back into retirement. It doesn't sound like the actions of a woman on the verge of rooting out the Black. I place that event at just before her first retirement.

12

Frenzy: 2003-06-06

GLotD,

Cadsuane retires, but she's not completely out of the loop. after all, she tracks Rand down, she knows what's going on in Tar Valon regarding the coup & subsequent breaking. And she was involved with Taim and Logain, both being recent.

i'm not saying that Cadsuane was part of the Vileness. The Vileness was the Red Ajah going gonzo and the Black Ajah taking advantage of it as well as egging it on. Cadsuane almost uncovered it. It didn't end until Sierin Vayu was murdered.

13

stromgard: 2003-07-16

Two small overlooked details:

in Winter's heart, one of the BA who's hiding in Caemlyn after running from Samara, confesses that she had manipulated the Red Ajah into killing Sierin, because Sierin had discovered the presence of the BA.

And according to Elaida, Toveine and the other two were scapegoats to cover up for her and others (maybe Galina or Sierin herself) so that mightier or more important sisters wouldn't take the blame from the lawless gentling.

It may also be a distinct possibility that the Red Ajah has been encouraged and supported by the BA all along, because gentling seems to decrease the amount of people who can channel in future generations. Was it Alviarin who suggested that in Elaidas' Hall?

14

Korell: 2003-07-17

thats quite interesting and certainly would make sense the less channlers you have in the wolrd the less likly there will be channlers in the future so if you kill off the men it certainly delutes the prospects and that is definatly somthing the BA would want...i wander if some of these Aeisedia are going to start having kids with their bonded ahshaman not particularly with that in mind but most of them seem very very found of thier bonded ashahman

15

Jiana: 2003-07-17

Could be, Korell, and also, think of the sisters that Logain has bonded the other way around. They seem to be quite taken with him. Could be that some of the other AS in the BT feel the same about their bond holders.

16

Ashaman Ragsdale: 2003-07-17

Could the reason Cadsuane left the tower for 10 years when they tried to raise her Amyrlin was because she was on the brink of uncovering the vileness, and she knew if she was raised she would die like past Amyrlin, or that it would maybe hinder her search of the vileness?

17

Anubis: 2003-07-18

cadsuanne has her own mission. has had it for a while. as amrylin she would loose alot of her freedom to carry out her mission. so she left.

18

brother of Battles: 2005-10-21

This seems to be a very good theory...however, I just have one quick question. Was the succession taking place when Elaida had her fortelling? If so, how does Elaida know she is following the correct Royal Line? Her fortelling said that the Royal Line of Andor was the key to winning the Last Battle. Rand Al'Thor, The Dragon Reborn, is a Royal Line of Andor. His Mother being the Queen before high-tailing it to the Waste. And if you want to be technically, Luc is of the Royal Line as well. So there are Three (I think RJ loves this number. Three Ta'veran, Three Kick-Butt Chicks, Three major players in global power; ie. Rand, Forsaken, Sanchan) possible people who are the possible target for that fortelling; Rand, Luc, and of course Elaine.

Someone please come up with an answer on how Elaida could possibly have the right target, espesially since she doesn't even know Rand is a part of the Royal Line, nor does she know that Luc is still alive...Darkfriend yes, but still alive and part of the Royal line.

19

Callandor: 2005-10-23

**Was the succession taking place when Elaida had her fortelling?**

Yes. She attached herself to Morgase as soon as she was the clear winner.

**If so, how does Elaida know she is following the correct Royal Line?**

Because everything in the world is exactly as how Elaida sees it and says it is... ;)

She blinded herself into seeing what she wanted. It's the same reason she's blinded herself into seeing that her Foretelling assures her position or how she is going to be the woman remembered for all eternity as the one to save the world.... She does this all the time. It's a major part of her character.

20

FraKcture: 2005-10-25

Brother of Battles - I have always believed that Elaida did not have the right target. Obviously, it did not turn out to be Morgase. One could make an argument that she included Elayne when she attached herself to Morgase. But I have always thought that the correct answer to this fortelling was Rand. I think Callandor pretty much spells it out. Elaida has consisently proven herself at being wrong. There is no reason to think she was correct this time.

You could also argue that Rand and Elayne are both (will be) critical to winning the last battle.

21

BrainFireBob: 2006-08-12

Generally well-put together.

At the end it derails slightly.

Elaida had her fortelling while still an Accepted, an reflects on the timing "she had attached herself to Morgase as soon as it was clear" etc.

Meaning before Tigraine's disappearance/at approximately the same time.

She's so sexist that she's focused on Elayne- ignoring not just Rand and Luc (of whom she would be ignorant) but also Gawyn and most importantly GALAD- who may end up being the most crucial member of this family in the Last Battle- after all, twas Galahad the perfect White Knight who found the Grail and healed the Fisher King- who was his kinsman in some accounts . . .

Elaida did NOT avoid the vileness. Her own thoughts reveal her involvement. Did any of it happen in Andor? Well, one would imagine Thom's nephew was Andoran.

And the fallout of Thom going to help his nephew- which could only mean "interfering in Tower business"- was Morgase- oh so staunch an ally of the Tower- accosting him on his return. And his hurt anger flares at her- and she over-reacts and sends Guardsmen after him.

Since Merrilin was one of Morgase's closest advisors, and probably her spymaster- regardless of whether she knew she had one- and certainly her shadowy protector- evidence Taringail's death- upon whom would Morgase rely after his dismissal for news and advice in the Game of Houses?

Why, the self-same Red advisor who would be involved in any cover-up/authorization to "seek and destroy" in Ander, and would certainly want the cunning Merrilin, who might uncover the truth and threatened her own standing, out of the picture. Maybe I should make that response its own theory . . .