ercy Killing
by Ellistann: 2003-08-19 | 6.25 out of 10 (16 votes)
Something has bothered me since TSR, We see Mat's POV and get his three questions, but Rands aren't mentioned except once in a blue moon. He broods once, and sorry for not being able to put exact words or pages numbers (I'm in Iraq) , but he's brooding and thinks to himself " He knows that he is going to die, in the last battle, the prophecies called for it, but he got answers from a place that told no lies and they said he would live, BUT WOULD HE CONSIDER THAT LIVING".
TITLE: Lord of Chaos, CHAPTER: 26 - Connecting Lines
"Are you really there? Rand demanded. Is there more to you than a voice? Only that soft, mad laughter answered. He stewed over Lews Therin all the way back to Caemlyn, and even after they had ridden past one of the long markets of tile roofs lining the approaches to the gates and into the New City. He worried over going mad—not just the fact of it, though that was bad enough; if he went insane, how could he do what he had to do?—but he had seen no sign of it. But then, if his mind did crack, would he know it? He had never seen a madman. All he had to go by was Lews Therin maundering in his head. Did all men go mad alike? Would he end like that, laughing and weeping over things no one else saw or knew? He knew he had a chance to live, if a seemingly impossible one. If you would live, you must die; that was one of three things he knew must be true, told to him inside a ter'angreal where the answers were always true if apparently never easy to understand. But to live like that.... He was not sure he would not rather die."
A few other indictations, like the beggars staff. EOTW Min just gets introduced and she says she sees things. Fast forward a bit and you see a golden crown of laurel leaves (crown of swords) a beggars staff and a white hot iron. The beggars staff is what gets me. The most powerful channeler on the planet, ruler of 3 nations goes to meet his fate, but does not die. EVERYONE who has read the profecies KNOWS he's going to die, in fact "multitudes cheered his death", but if he Re-Breaks the world, that would piss off a lot of people and he'll have to go into hiding.
Another thing, the Fisher King. Moridin, Ishy, whatever; he thinks the FK is Rand. Lets assume it is, fits Rands personality quick and defensive in the first books, slow but offensive in the latter. Well the fisher King has bandaged eyes and blood leaking from his side, the side we all know what that is. But bandaged eyes means he's blind, and who among us all wants to be blind. Many people would have the attitude of "but would you call that living?"
Alivia isn't going to kill him until after the LB, not before. She's not a darkfriend, she Dr. Kavorkian (Sp?) putting Rand out of his misery, one last service to someone who did so much and was not granted the Last Embrace in the LB, but was blinded gentled and dethroned. To go from the most powerful person in the world to a common street beggar, "but would he consider that living?"
Tear it apart, but most of all, find his three questions. Two are mentioned within books 8 or 9. They are:
1. Will I survive the Last Battle?
2. How can I match the Creators work?
3. ?
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-08-26
The Alivia thing is something to consider. Alivia is going to help Rand die, and I always considered that this meant she would help him die at the Last Battle, not afterwards. Here is a fun quote I found, while thinking about your theory.
<br>TITLE: Crossroads of Twilight, CHAPTER: 24 - A Strengthening Storm
<br>"Alivia would finish her, Lews Therin muttered. She's going to help us die; she'd remove Cadsuane for us, if you tell her to."
<br>Lews Therin believes that Alivia is going to help them both die (Rand and Lews.)
<br>In Rand's comments about wanting to live like that, it is tied to becoming a mad man. Rand worries that he might live past the Last Battle, but as a madman, so would it be worth living. But, is it possible that he survives the Last Battle, and becomes a beggar? I don't know. We know that three women in a boat, are most likely with Rand, so would they allow him to become a beggar...?
2
Callandor: 2003-08-26
**If you would live, you must die**
That's what the Finn told him. Rand is just assuming different things for the correct ones to me (like in TSR when Moiraine tells him to invade Illian, when it is a bad idea).
To me, Rand will go to the Last Battle, and die; but his soul will live on to be reborn again and again.
3
Rhodric: 2003-08-27
if Rand just dies, when do the beggar prophecies happen?
4
Callandor: 2003-08-27
We do have a few more books to go you know...
5
Tigraine: 2003-08-28
I'm not sure if this sounds possible or not, but perhaps we've already seen the beggar viewing come to pass when Rand met Elayne in Caemlyn in disguise as an ugly, dark-haired man with a large wart. That sounds vaguely like a beggar to me. I'm not sure if he had a staff/cane with him, however. I'll have to check that out.
6
Rhodric: 2003-08-31
the "beggar prophecies" that i mentioned are those which depict rand with bandages round his eyes, and his hand clutched to his side, like Moridin's fisher. i think this imag3e of rand must occur before he dies. and i don't think that there is enough time before the last battle. unless RJ makes the story go much faster.
7
Davian93: 2003-09-17
I believe the third question had to do with cleansing Saidin. I dont have the quote in front of me since I'm at work but Rand mentions once in his POV that he had asked a question where the answer had to be true(obviously the doorway in Tear) but he was afraid to carry it out.
8
Elder Haman: 2003-09-21
The Third was how to cleanse Saidin. Rand thinks to himself that Herid Fel had called the 'finns directions "correct in principle" or something like that
9
Callandor: 2003-09-21
**TITLE: Eye of the World, CHAPTER: 15 - Strangers and Friends
"What about me?" Her grin stopped just short of outright laughter. "The same kind of things as the rest. A sword that isn't a sword, a golden crown of laurel leaves, a beggar's staff, you pouring water on sand, a bloody hand and a white-hot iron, three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it, black rock wet with blood -"**
**the "beggar prophecies" that i mentioned are those which depict rand with bandages round his eyes, and his hand clutched to his side, like Moridin's fisher**
No, the Fisher in sha'rah comes most likely from pervious Ages (most likely the last turning of the 3rd Age), so Rand could just pick up a begger's staff and then in the next Age or 2 he is said to have been a begger or of the sort.
**TITLE: Path of Daggers, CHAPTER: Prologue - Deceptive Appearances
The Fisher was always worked as a man, a bandage blinding his eyes and one hand pressed to his side, a few drops of blood dripping through his fingers. The reasons, like the source of the name, were lost in the mist of time. That troubled him sometimes, enraged him, what knowledge might be lost in the turnings of the Wheel, knowledge he needed, knowledge he had a right to. A right!
...
Perhaps the Fisher did come from some dim remnant of a memory of Rand al'Thor, the shadow of a shadow. It did not matter.**
10
brother of Battles: 2004-02-15
Has anyone considered the fact that the bandages over his eyes means that he is blinded to what is going on around him? He has no idea where ALL the remaining forsaken are, he doesn't even know about slayer, moridin, all the new/remade forsaken, he doesn't know what the Sankshan(sp?) are up too.
I don't know but in my opinion it just seems to me that he doesn't lose his sight, he just doesn't know what all the players of the game are.
11
charliec: 2004-02-18
Got to say, I go with the idea of the fisher being remnant of a 'Rand-like' character from an earlier age... as for the dying and living again thing, I'm not sure, but I don't think the prophecies ever say that the dragon has to DIE at Tarmon Gaidon, just his blood has to be spilt on the rocks. heaven knows the main characters are good at losing a bit of blood but surviving ;) I think Robert Jordan's been quite careful to leave a way out for Rand, and my first guess is that Alivia finds some way to let either Rand OR Lews die (and as Lews is the real dragon, and nuts to boot...)
There's no need for the story to end at Tarmon Gaidon, and it's already been implied several times that when Rand wins (come on, RJ's not gonna let him lose now!) other people will be mopping up after him. I can't help suspecting that somewhere somehow the hero will live happily ever after.
12
dragonsceptor: 2004-02-19
"What about me?" Her grin stopped just short of outright laughter. "The same kind of things as the rest. A sword that isn't a sword, a golden crown of laurel leaves, a beggar's staff, you pouring water on sand, a bloody hand and a white-hot iron, three women standing over a funeral bier with you on it, black rock wet with blood -"
I had an interesting thought while reading this. What if the "bloody hand and white-hot iron" have to do with Mat. I know, I know, let me explain. Mat is going to lose half the light of the world to save the world right? What if the bloody hand is Rand's and the white-hot poker is what Rand uses to blind Mat in one eye. Why Rand would be the one to take Mat's eye I have not completely worked out yet. But, if Mat's eye is a link to the DO, then Rand would be the most likely to both figure this out and take the necessary action to help mat remove the eye. Anyway, just an idea. I'm not sure I believe it myself but it is something to think about.
13
Davian93: 2004-02-19
**** but I don't think the prophecies ever say that the dragon has to DIE at Tarmon Gaidon, just his blood has to be spilt on the rocks****
That is correct. He will die, but nothing says it will be at TG. He will die and live again according to the foretellings/viewings/answers from ter'angreal.
14
Unicorn: 2004-02-19
"Has anyone considered the fact that the bandages over his eyes means that he is blinded to what is going on around him? He has no idea where ALL the remaining forsaken are, he doesn't even know about slayer, moridin, all the new/remade forsaken, he doesn't know what the Sankshan(sp?) are up too. " by brother of battle.
This is the best intrepretation yet as I see it. I have always found it kinda strange that so many people here come up with the most convuluted theories about who Mesaana or Demandred is, or in the extreme Asmodeans killer looking for all the convuluted clues there is in the books. but if min sees a beggar it is taken at face value. I don't think that Mins visions are to be taken at face value(unless we outright told that she KNOWS what this or taht means). Figuratively speaking Rand is a "beggar" he is not comfortable with command because he knows nothing about, He is scared out of his wits because he doesn't know who to trust and so forth. I also do for one minute belive the speculations about Mat's eye - not the loosing it not the "The forsaken are looking through Mat eye" bit remember this is not a hi-tech sci-fi thing. I think the eye in the scale means that Mat's judgement is being clouded at some point. As to the Questions mentioned in the main theory - 1 I think he will the craziest idea is that Alivia helps Rand fake his own death, and when Mat along with Bashere and Bryne has the armies of Trollocs good and well occuppied fighting, Rand will slip in and whup som forsaken butt, using surprise, Sa'angreal and he will go down in a blaze of glory(no but the song is on the radio right now) I think he will live.
2 I dont think he can or actually will match the creator work, maybe (and if you read this RJ I think you should come up with something better) well maybe he will recreate the seals LTT made by just suddenly knowing, that was Ok in the beginning when he knew nothing, now it would be disapointing.
as for the third question I just know my Brother-in-law would answer "blue or perhaps 3-3.5" I think we will have to RAFO :).
15
matoyak: 2004-08-03
first let me start off saying that my full theory will hopefully be put up under theories: rand and suroth: rand, suroth, the sad bracelets, TG, prophecies and some other such things. u can easily find it under that or predictions: rand. now let me say that i think that rand will be stupid enough (i say that loosly callandor) to almost get the sad bracelets on him and that perrin will save him and that alivia will help him die by pretending to kill him. (the to live you must die thing) the reason he will have to do this is that he will have to hide from the seanchan so she 'kills' him and he dresses up as a blind begger. while under that guise his wounds break open (remember that they aren't filling there best after the clensing) and he will grip his sides, wahlah! the fisher of Shah'rah. then his three lovers will help by standing over his funeral beir(SP?)(i've got logains glory in that theory too). when we get to TG moriane will be back (more on that if my other theory gets posted) and rand will get killed by lanfear/cyndane. moriane will balefire cyndane at almost that exact moment to bring rand back fulfilling the moriane will have to be there at TG or else all is lost prophecy and his blood at shayol ghul prophecy.
1)will i survive the last battle?
2)how can i seal the DO's prison like new?
3)how can i clense saidin?
and about the idea that he is blind to the things around him that too is a very good idea and might prove true
16
Jaim Farstrider: 2005-05-13
Rand's story has become more and more tragic as the books go on. There he is fighting a loosing battle against madness, physical illnesses, numerous plots against him from Darkfriends and petty nobles, plots from the shadow and light knows what else that lot are up too. Even the love of three women gives him little solace now, only his tenacity keeps him fighting.
In the face of this there seems little hope outside of death for him. But RJ has given us hints of hope for the poor guy. First of all Min's viewing concerning Rand and Lews Therin – one of them must die and apparently Moiraine is the key to making sure it is Lews Therin that dies, well he always said he deserves death.
In regards to Rand Faking his own death, it seems preordained from Min's viewings and Egwene's dreams that Rand will fake his own death, though what Cadsuane's part in this will be I'm not sure... nor am I sure about what this “light” blinded beggar is about ;)... though I am pretty sure that Rand is the game piece on Moridin's board, maybe the next book will fill us in.
However, even if Rand is cured from madness and defeats the shadow, its difficult to see that he will live happily ever after, Rand's Story has been a tragic one, it would be a shame if it ends in tragedy but it looks that way – but RJ has surprised us all in the past so there may still be a way to save Rand.
By the way – do you reckon Loial is the unknown author of the fourth age that sings Rand's praises??
