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Home | Index | Archives | Help
eadaches?
by Drew: 2000-11-17 | 1 out of 10 (4 votes)
Previous Categories: Halima and Egwene's Headaches
Comments
Tamyrlin: 2000-11-17
I thought Halima was common knowledge, and probably is now for you, but Halima is Aran'gar...which is one of the two first male Forsaken to be killed, I just can remember which right at the moment. Halima is causing these headaches using saidin no doubt so he/she can get close to Egwene. Now how that will all turn out I don't know. Halima may be found out soon, since the end of Winter's Heart said that this is the "End of Illusions".
pointyman: 2002-11-08
Halima is Balthamel reborn. I would imagine that Halima will not last much longer in her current position, due to the quote that Tamyrlin mentioned and also that she was seen to be channelling saidin during the cleansing of the taint by some Aes Sedai, so it is possible that she will be recognised in the future.
Master Rabbi: 2002-11-12
Halima is Balthamel. When Aran'gar and Osan'gar are reborn it is from Osan'gar, and makes the comment about not liking Halfmen because they were like a 'mistake' in his creation of the Trollocs. I had the good luck to remember this when reading the sourcebook, in which it states that Aginor is the creator of the Shadowspawn. Since Osan'gar is Aginor, Aran'gar is Balthamel. I think that when Egwene does find out she will try to hid it, maybe even from Sanche, until she decides what to do. Sanche or someone else will find out and Egwene will be hard-pressed to get out of this one but she will. This is just my gut intuition, I don't have any facts on that.
Eilonwy: 2002-11-17
Tamyrlin is correct - Halima is Aran'gar. There's evidence all over the place, including Forsaken meetings where they flat out say so. Reading or re-reading Winters Heart should help you out. :)
Callandor: 2003-01-14
Egwenes headaches in my mind are Halima (duh) basically watching/hearing/evesdropping on whatever she thinks is important. Egwene only feels the headache as a side affect im guessing.
Hydraan Sedai: 2003-03-17
Maybe the headaches are just from stress. Elayne got headaches shortly after she got into the Palace in Andor, and started running Caemlyn etc. So, unless Master Norry is a Forsaken in disguise, she is getting stress headaches. Same with Egwene. The only difference is that Halima can channel Saidin, so she can't be detected whilst "Healing" Egwene. Chances are Halima doesn't fully Heal Egwene, otherwise Halima wouldn't be needed. Maybe Halima is laying down Compulsion, but Egwene seemed in control when she took the role of Dominant Amyrlin instead of Spineless Amyrlin, so maybe Halima is reaching for trust instead.
Here's an idea; Aginor and Bathamel seem close-ish ((They were together after they were freed, and Forsaken are meant to hate eachother)), and Aginor was a creator of Shadow things. Well, maybe Aginor created a new Power, or a combination of Saidar and Saidin. Bathamel would know of this, because they seem to be close, so maybe they both use a new Source.
Farfetched, yes, but those theories are the most fun =P
Oh, and we don't know what Balthamel was good at; Maybe he helped Aginor, or maybe he did it on his own....
Callandor: 2003-03-18
1. The True Power existed before any of the now Forsaken went over to the Dark. So Aginor and Bethalmel could create it.
2. The headaches might have started out WAYYY back in ACOS as just stress headaches, but now, espically after COT, that Halima is having a major hand in them. When Egwene tells her to leave her headache increases, during the talking with the Sitters over the Ashaman the headaches are there, when Halima leaves for a while the headaches **magically** go away. Too many coincidences for it not to be in RJs world.
Weird Harold: 2003-03-19
Hydraan Sedai:
"Maybe the headaches are just from stress. Elayne got headaches shortly after she got into the Palace in Andor, and started running Caemlyn etc. So, unless Master Norry is a Forsaken in disguise, she is getting stress headaches."
I suspect that Cyndane is spending at least some time disguised as one of the new servants in the Palace and would have an opportunity to cause Elayne some headaches -- Literal Headaches as well as figurative.
Hydraan Sedai:
"Chances are Halima doesn't fully Heal Egwene, otherwise Halima wouldn't be needed. Maybe Halima is laying down Compulsion, but Egwene seemed in control ... so maybe Halima is reaching for trust instead."
Egwene's headaches don't respond to Aes Sedai Healing, it's been tried, and tried before they apparently discovered "testing for resonance" to detect Saidin use.
IMHO, Halima is:
A) Directly causing the headaches, with Saidin, to provide an excuse to lay hands on Egwene. The headaches began *immediately* after Logain's "escape". Halima did everything she could to get Logain killed or gentled -- presumably because he could detect Saidin Users and/or Saidin use.
B) Halima needs an excuse to "lay on hands" because she's using a Saidin variant of Verin's "Suggestion Weave." Verin needs to be touching her subjects, and I suspect than anything involving the kind of fine control Verin's weave uses also requires physical contact.
(Suggestion and Compulsion both accomplish about the same thing, but work differently; Suggestion uses the subjects own prejudices and tendencies to guide them to make a decision, Compulsion imposes a decision and sometimes alters memories to make the decision seem to be the subject's own choice. Moghedien seems to prefer a different approach to imposing control that is more Glamour than Compulsion; Her version makes the subject want to do anything to please her, rather than imposing a decision. The Crystal Throne also seems to use Moggy's approach to getting people to do things they wouldn't normally do.)
Hydraan Sedai:
"Oh, and we don't know what Balthamel was good at; ..."
Yes we do.
From the BWB: "Balthamel, born Eval Ramman, was a historian specializing in the study of vanished cultures." He also had anger management problems and never distinguished himself enough "to earn a third name."
His exact role in the War of Power is unknown, but the BWB suggests he's Moggy's male counter-part -- Spy and Intelligence Analyst. I suspect he was also an "idea man" for weapons concepts, like adapting Fencers into serious Swordsmen.
Callandor
When Egwene tells her to leave her headache increases, during the talking with the Sitters over the Asha'man the headaches are there, when Halima leaves for a while the headaches **magically** go away.
That was Chesa's nasty tasting potion at work in that case. The timing is about consistent with the delay between taking Tylenol and noticing any actual relief. I don't recall if Egwene tried Willow-bark (Aspirin) or succumbed to the Aes Sedai prejudice against Herbal Remedies or not. Even if she did, comparing Chesa's potion to Tylenol or Advil works -- they will work on some headaches where Aspirin won't and (vice versa.)
juitzhead: 2003-04-10
I think that Egwene's headaches are a direct result of the Compulsion/Suggestion thingy. In TSR (Veils, pg 771), when Moggy pays Elayn and Nyn a visit to find out what they know she uses Compulsion. Now the passage that interested me was:
“A nice woman” Elayne said, rubbing her forehead. She had a headache coming on. “Did she give a name? I don't remember.”
Obviously compulsion makes you want to please the person weaving but also causes a headache a side effect after it is used.
Further on in TER'something'something, Nyn remembers being placed under compulsion when she sees Moggy in there. Will this be the same way that Egwene finds out about Halima?
Callandor: 2003-04-10
Its not just compulsion its a thing like spying through the persons eyes.
COT, Chapter 18, A Chat with Siuan, pages 438-439, ***Perhaps you can have dinner with me.* If she finished in time to do more than eat at her table right tehre in her study. It was getting on toward midday already. *We can talk then.*
Halima sat up abruptly, eyes flashing and full lips compressed, but her scowl vanished as quickly as it had come. A smoldering remained in her eyes, though. Had she been a cat, she would have had her back arched and her tail like a bottle-brush. Rising gracefully to her feet on the layered carptes, she smoothed her dress over her hips. *Very well, then. If youre certain you dont want me to stay.*
WITH REMARKABLE TIMING, A DULL THROB BEGAN BEHIND EGWENES EYES, AN ALL TOO FAMILIAR PRECURSOR TO A BLINDING HEADACHE, but she shook her head anyway and repeated that she had work to do. Halima hesitated a moment longer, her mouth going tight once more, hands fisting in her skirts, then she snatched her fur-lined silk cloak from the cloak stand and stalked out of the tent without bothering to pull the garment around her shoulders. She could do herself an injury going about like that in the cold.**
The headache starts RIGHT when Halima is told to leave. Why? Because she wants to know what Egwene and Siuan are talking about. SHES SPYING THROUGH EGWENE.
On page 450, the medicine is given to Egwene, not before.
jayenigma: 2003-04-11
I won't be surprised to see those who can test for resonances starting to vanish next...
Aran'gar seems more thorough than Osan'gar.
juitzhead: 2003-04-08
I think that Egwene? headaches are a direct result of the Compulsion/Suggestion thingy. In TSR (Veils, pg 771), when Moggy pays Elayn and Nyn a visit to find out what they know she uses Compulsion. Now the passage that interested me was:
? nice woman·Elayne said, rubbing her forehead. She had a headache coming on. ?id she give a name? I don? remember.·br>
Moggy used compulsion and the result is Elayne and Nyn revealing a large part of their plan without being aware (until Nyn had that flashback in TER and battled Moggy).. Now, Moggy doesn? do much with this information immediately after. Could Halima? tactics be the same? Just bide her time.
And could Egwene have the same reaction in TER as Nyn did?
Brighid: 2003-06-01
I agree that Halima is causing the headaches using Saidin, but for all of you guys saying that it must be compulsion, can you give any examples of orders or decisions that Egwene makes that seem out of character for her, or for her ultimate goal, pre Winter's Heart I can't!!
: 2003-06-02
I think that Egwenes headaches are an effect of Halima spying on things when she isnt there through Egwenes eyes.
Weird Harold: 2003-06-02
Brighid asked, "can you give any examples of orders or decisions that Egwene makes that seem out of character for her, or for her ultimate goal,"
I'm not one who claims Compulsion although Ido believe that Halima is using a milder form of mild control i.e. suggestion like Verin uses.
One of the decisions that are "out of character" is her change of mind about the Three Oaths; Egwene is normally the sort of person who makes a decision and sticks with it, sometimes to the point of mulishness.
There are all sorts of examples of Egwene making unexplained reversals of previously established positions that don't mean much individually, but taken together make her look indecisive and/or stupid. Dig up any "I hate Egwene Thread" and you'll find hundreds of examples.
I believe that most of those examples that date from Halima's arrival and the beginning of her headaches can be blamed on Halima.
One of the major effects of Halima's manipulations is Egwene's inability to remember her important dreams after Halima's ministrations -- an ability that returns as soon as Chesa doses her with an herbal remedy until Halima causes more headaches.
Halima is by far the most subtle of the Forsaken we've seen in action, and finding the clues to what she's up to require some close reading.
heronblade: 2003-06-05
didnt a fairly simple compulsion need the trust of the subject (shado aiel camp) what better way to have a relaxed and trusting subject than one you're helping. if egwene finds out as public knowledge then S\He will have to be stilled. if private the prob treated like moggy
Callandor: 2003-06-06
But Halima is a Forsaken and doesn't need to use the simple form of Compulsion so she doesn't need the trust of Egwene.
Rhodric: 2003-06-18
How do we know that Halima can use compulsion? we never saw Balthamel use it in his old body.
the Forsaken who i remember using Compulsion are Moghedien, Ishamael, Graendahl, Sammael, Semhirage, Rahvin, and i assume Be'lal, since he duped the high lords of Tear.
I don't remember any instance of the other forsaken using Compulsion. Lanfear, Asmodean, and Mesaana all tend to use the mirror of mists instead. (although im unsure of lanfear).
perhaps Aran'gar causing headaches is the limit to his brain/mind manipulating ability, and so that's the only way he/she can keep tabs on Egwene.
He creates the headaches early in the morning, tying a weave that gets steadily more painful, until he is there to remove it, or the weave slowly unknots by itself.
i say this because Compulsion seems unlikely since Egwene has done nothing out of character... Suggestion, maybe.
And if Halima were trying to see through Egwene's eyes, why would she stop during a sitting of the hall, however mundane?
This was my first post. Slander it all, if you wish.
Callandor: 2003-06-18
Its very likely, if not assured that all the Forsaken know Compulsion. Halima didnt look through Egwenes eyes during the sitting most likely because she was away on business for her plans.
Weird Harold: 2003-06-18
Rhodric said, "i say this because Compulsion seems unlikely since Egwene has done nothing out of character... Suggestion, maybe.
"And if Halima were trying to see through Egwene's eyes, why would she stop during a sitting of the hall, however mundane?"
First, "Compulsion" is NOT a singular weave, especially to the Forsaken. There are as many forms and styles as there are people who would resort to tampering with another person's mind. "Compulsion" is a broad group of weaves that includes most of the "Wilder Tricks" Verin used todevelop her form of Suggestion ("Suggestion" is a broad sub-category of "Compulsion.")
<
Second, even if Halima was using some weave that allowed her to "ride shotgun" in Egwene's mind, the Hall's delberations are shielded against eavesdropping with the One Power with a Weave learned from Moggy -- presumably one that blocks Saidin eavesdroppers as well as those using Saidar.
In one of the very first times we're shown Halima's "treatments" it's described as "almost Hypnotic." That certainly suggests to me that Halima is using something closer to "post-hypnotic suggestion" than what most people think of as "Compulsion" -- the mind destroying total control used by Rahvin or Graendal.
Rhodric: 2003-06-19
I still think compulsions out, if not because Aran'gar can't use it well then because nothing shadowy has come about from Egwene's decisions.
The spying makes sense, but looking through Egwene's eyes seems odd and if it were so Halima would wander around the camp bumping into things. I'm thinking more of a fixed eavesdropping weave, centred in our young Amyrlin friend's head, so it follows her around everywhere she goes. The headaches could be either a side effect or an intentional way to stay close to egwene.
and finally the wheels are in motion. Halima has been screwing around with the rebel AS for far too long, just a check for resonance around Egwene's head and the culprit is done for.
ranman38: 2003-07-23
Halimas days are numbered. She seems to be in charge when she should be subservient, she is gone for long stretches of time. Her headaches coincide with her arrival or leaving. I theorize that Halima will be revealed one of three ways. Failure in her mission will result in punishment/death. Cadsuane and her ornaments will be near when Halima channels, or possibly may and his medallion. Or of course Logain or some other male channeler. Halima is definitely killing the AS trying to strike a bargain with the BT, to mask her abilities. Bonding Ash's means Ash's all over the place! :) I do not feel that Egwene is under any sort of compulsion. She is making wise decisions IMO. She is not being guided, her stature grows every day, and every day as Amerylin cements her there. Of course, who knows what will come of her capture.
rubbernilly: 2003-07-24
I doubt whether Aran'gar will be a part of the AS camp any more...
Egwene is captured now, Aran'gar was at the battle w/ the Choeden Kal. I think a whole lot of shadow strategies will have to be rethought now, and if Moridin is truly the Nae'blis and organizing the shadow's plans now, things will be far less competitive between the Forsaken. Specifically as that relates to Aran'gars future involvement with Egwene, I think that Moridin would say that Egwene is in Mesaana's domain now, and that she has better means of access to her.
I think Aran'gar will be getting a new assignment, not discovered.
Well... not discovered before she has left the scene. Egwene may figure out later what was done to her.
Callandor: 2003-07-24
If anything, the Dark wants Halima to stay where she is. We have Halima with the rebels, Messana with the Tower, Semi with the Seanchan, and we had Osan'gar in the BT (and it seems Demandred is having some dealings with them). So that's a Forsaken with every group of channelers. Why would the Dark want Halima to move?
Moridin was already getting the competition between the Forsaken down as of ACOS. Aran'gar and Osan'gar seemed to be under his control, and Cyndane and Moggy are mindtrapped under his control, then in TPOD Graendal goes under his control. Thats 6 Forsaken all aligned, so the others would easily give over to him as of WH.
Halima will most likely either be found out by an Aes Sedai scanning for saidin after a murder or something, or an Asha'man finds her out (like Hopwill did in WH, although he died ;)).
rubbernilly: 2003-07-25
callandor -
I agree that the shadow might not move her. She is valuable where she is. I just don't think that she is going to follow Egwene. That's what I mean by a new assignment.
Personally, I don't think that she'll be found in the AS camp now, as since Egwene has left there is little reason for her to channel regularly. I think it will be as the rebel AS are brougth back into WT fold that she does something that causes a resonance to be tested for, etc.
Mairashda: 2003-07-25
one forsaken with every group of channelers? well, graendal did/does have some control over the ayyad, true-but what about the Wise Ones, what about the Kin?
Callandor: 2003-07-25
Graendal's trip to Shara was a ploy with Sammael to make him think she was interested in the area. The aryyad won't come into effect.
Wise Ones are a good pint, but it maybe that the Forsaken concider them too pointless, too hard to infiltrate, or just think they can control them in better ways. And Sammael and Graendal did deal with the Shaido Wise Ones briefly.
Dorindha: 2003-07-25
She isn't going to be found by simply testing for resonance. It is completely illogical to everyone that a woman should channel saidin, so if Halima's actions get discovered, it'll be pinned on the BT or Rand. The only way she can get found out is if she channels in front of someone (man or woman) as they will either feel the power, or investigate because the can't.
Mairashda: 2003-07-25
with the impending seanchan attack on the whithe tower, halima might get herself caught even if it is only to avoid notice. as a woman cought in uncleansed lands she would certainly be tested...and -being what she is- BLAM one dead sul'dam, one dead forsaken. it might happen- I don't think, she knows about the effects of an a'dam on a male channeler, so she might consider keeping a low profile which might eventually lead to her unfortunate demise...
Deane Aryman: 2003-07-30
I think Halima will stay in the camp when Egwene is gone, but will move on to another person with the headaches, maybe. think she scanns for information in Egwenes brain and after that she has headaches.
ranman38: 2003-07-31
You know what? I buy that. A form of delving! She literally extracts the info she needs. I'll buy that before I would buy true compulsion, or even the natterings of a girl in a beauty shop. Good call.
Lews Therin Telamon: 2004-01-26
Halima(Aran'gar) would know about male channelers not being able to touch adam attuned to women. If you'll remember when Halima released Moggy in her tent and told her she had been summoned to the Pit of Doom. When taking off the collar Halima touched it and they each, and Egwene as well, felt the pain that came with it. I really doubt that Halima thought the pain was a coincidence.
Tain Shari: 2004-02-20
I remebered this when going through the books again, after Morgase was freed from the spell of the now deceased Rahvin, she remebers dreams of running away but not being sure of what or who she was running from.... I rember Egwene making some comment of the same ilk about her dreaming. She mentions that she records all her dreams and how some are symbolic and some are just wierd, under which she makes a comment about running away from something. I think this can be something to go the pro compulsions, Cos Morgase was definatly compeled! But also I think that after a certain time compulsion starts to loose its effect as the threads loose there strength, we can assume that halima is only using low level compulsion becaseu Egwene is capable of making her own desicions and action and because of this small dosage Egwene is just building up will or something, If left the head aches would go away but she dosn't let it go long enough, i think it is something like a tolerance, the mind slowly builds up its will and then trys to break free, but halmia is having to use stronger and stronger weaves because egwenes mind is getting stronger, I believe there will come a time (like now that she is captured) where she will go a long time with out any 'help' from halima and essensially go cold turkey off the compulsion, this is my idea on how she will find out, That or it will seem a tad suss if halima apears in the middle of a cell in the middle of the white tower and over what she will plan to do..... well is it possible to turn some one to cuendillar.....?
dementia: 2004-08-12
Why haven't the AS noticed that cats hate Halima (because they dont like males who use the power just like dogs dont care for woman who do the same).
It would just be great if such a little almost unimportant thing like that betrayed her/him.
I find it more likely though that Rand will pop in and feel her channeling, but a cat attack would be ammusing at the least.
Jumai: 2004-09-19
I always thought that the passage in which Nynaeve breaks Moghedien's compulsion and remembers shows clearly that headaches are an effect of RESISTING compulsion, not compulsion itself. The Morgase POVs dealing with "Gaebril" seem to support this conclusion. Egwene's POVs show no indecision or internal battles of will over the right thing to do that I recall, so I would rule out her resisting compulsion (if it's being used at all) and therefor rule out compulsion as the source of the headache.
brother of Battles: 2005-06-09
I always thought Halima (Aran'gar) was giving Egwene headaches for a reason to stick around.
IIRC there is some point in the books where Suian ask Egwene why she still keeps Halima around. Egwene mentions something about her being the only one who can make the headaches go away.
That is also the reason Halima killed Egwene's other two handmaids. So that she is the only one who is there for Egwene. The only person Egwene can talk to when she doesn't want to talk to an AS.
tylin: 2005-07-19
Before Halima shows up in Salidar there is some text about an Aes Sedai and her warder being used to get information. There is mention about channelling at/on certain areas of the brain to stimulate pleasure or pain. The warder dies from too much pleasure stimulation while pain stimulation was used on the Sister. Maybe that is all that Halima is doing to Egwene...only she's really good at it.
Callandor: 2005-07-19
**Maybe that is all that Halima is doing to Egwene...only she's really good at it.**
It could very well be just that. But it's the why that she's doing it is interesting, and sheds light on how exactly she is doing it.
wolfbrother10: 2005-09-27
I always beleived that Egwene's headaches were coming from the weave that Moggy taught her while imprisoned by the adam (the one that supposedly allows you to know if a man is chanelling). Moggy lets us know later on in a forsaken reunion that the weave is useless but will give her terrible headaches.
Knowing that the culprit for the killings in the camp is a man Egwene might be trying to use the weave and thinking that she is not successful and continue to try the weave out.
Aran'gar being the perv he is enjoys some alone time with Egwene in which he can massage her and probably use Verin's form of compulsion and make Egwene forget about the pain but only for a short while so that he can continue his massage sessions.
silverwolf: 2005-09-27
If Egwene were using that weave, the headaches wouldn't hit her at random times, and she'd realize that the headaches were a result of the weave (Nynaeve did when trying to learn). Halima is causing the headaches, probably independently of compulsion, to stay close to Egwene--she could use compulsion without staying close to Egwene, or simple compel Egwene to allow her to stay close, but by causing the headaches she creates a reason for Egwene to keep her close that will be accepted by the sisters sworn to Egwene (and Siuan and Leane) without arousing suspicions of compulsion. I'm surprised that with the rumors of Compulsion used by Rand that Egwene has been speculating on, combined with the recent saidin-caused deaths, Egwene hasn't had someone test her for residues to make sure she's not being compelled.
I have to agree about the dreams of running from something. Egwene is certainly strong-willed enough to resist Compulsion unconsciously.
Anubis: 2005-09-28
I am a firm believer that Halima both caused and cured the headaches using saidin. I wonder what is going to happen to Egwene when she realizes her headaches have mysteriously gone away.
Callandor: 2005-09-29
**I always beleived that Egwene's headaches were coming from the weave that Moggy taught her while imprisoned by the adam (the one that supposedly allows you to know if a man is chanelling). Moggy lets us know later on in a forsaken reunion that the weave is useless but will give her terrible headaches.**
No, they are undoubtedly the cause of Halima doing a weave. Reasons being:
1. They didn't begin until Logain was out of the camp -- obvious since Logain would've possibly detected them, and Halima needs to work in secret.
2. They've allowed Halima to get intimately close to the Amyrlin of the Salidar Aes Sedai -- too big of a coincidence.
3. The headaches from Moghedien's weave only occur if they attempt her method of trying to detect a male channeler -- something Elayne and Nynaeve effectively gave up on, and Egwene might not have even been shown it let alone continuing to do this up till Crossroads of Twilight.
4. There is a scene in Crossroads of Twilight where it becomes explicitly obvious that Halima is the source of Egwene's headaches:
TITLE: Crossroads of Twilight, CHAPTER: 18 - A Chat with Siuan
"I'm afraid I do have work, Halima," she said, tugging off her gloves. A mountain of work, most days. There was no sign of Sheriam's reports on the table yet, of course, but she would be sending them soon, along with a few petitions she thought merited Egwene's attention. Just a few; ten or twelve appeals for redress of grievances, with Egwene expected to pass the Amyrlin's judgment on each. You could not do that without study, and questions, not and hand down a just decision. "Perhaps you can have dinner with me." If she finished in time to do more than eat at her table right there in her study. It was getting on toward midday already. "We can talk then."
Halima sat up abruptly, eyes flashing and full lips compressed, but her scowl vanished as quickly as it had come. A smoldering remained in her eyes, though. Had she been a cat, she would have had her back arched and her tail like a bottle-brush. Rising gracefully to her feet on the layered carpets, she smoothed her dress over her hips. "Very well, then. If you're certain you don't want me to stay."
With remarkable timing, a dull throb began behind Egwene's eyes, an all too familiar precursor to a blinding headache, but she shook her head anyway and repeated that she had work to do. Halima hesitated a moment longer, her mouth going tight once more, hands fisting in her skirts, then she snatched her fur-lined silk cloak from the cloak stand and stalked out of the tent without bothering to pull the garment around her shoulders. She could do herself an injury going about like that in the cold.**
Basically -- Halima is being tossed out, tries to force her stay, get's shot down, and is pissed by this, so obviously she tries to get Egwene to keep her around by giving her a headache. Can't get anymore obvious.