1
Tamyrlin: 2003-04-04
Okay, so you returned to the normal explanation (steel, music, fire, blah) for why there will be lots of people. So I will return to the question...why will Mat care? Why will he leave Tuon? Doesn't he believe her to be dead and wouldn't he consider any information from Thom suspect since Thom had a thing for Moiraine (which I suspect Mat has noticed.) How will he get back in to finnland? How will they find Moiraine? Maybe Jordan is just looking to surprise us all, but beyond prophecies of losing an eye and the salvation of the world, how Mat directly relates to it still seems farfetched...but you probably knew I would say this.
2
Callandor: 2003-04-04
I agree, if Perrin and Olver and all come along its way too many people, plus they would most likely be useless unless by breaking one of the rules you can enter with 2 people and not be separated.
Rememeber when Moiraine, Rand, AND Mat all went int to the Tear Doorway in TSR they didnt know anybody else was in there, except the Finn saying the strain was too much, till they all left.
I do think that Mat will go into Finnland again, I like the idea that he will lose his eye in the rescue attempt, and Thom will go for sure if anybody can get into Finnland again (I've always liked the Tower of Ghenjei way).
So I think its a good possiblity since there has been quite a lot of foreshadowing and Mat and company are headed in the right direction for the Tower.
3
The-True-Dragon: 2003-04-04
THE LETTER U FOOLS!!!! THE LETTER!!!
i cant believe that nobody ever mentions the letter. Moiraine went through the rings in rhuidien(sp?) so she knows what could happen. So she would prepare. She has always been prepared for everything. Y not now? since we know that Thom has a thing for her and she has a thing for Thom and she probably saw something about him saving her in her future y wouldnt she include it in the letter?
Thom will show mat the letter eventually and the aes sedai with him will make him go to rescue her. Or he might just feel like hes obligated to.
4
Anubis: 2003-04-07
recall that mat has killed (directly or indirectly) three women and he is of the never again attitude. if he hears moirine is in danger somewhere, he WONT be able to just stand there, he will have to do somthing, even if it is moirine.
5
Highbreaker: 2003-04-09
Hey, I had a lot to say on this subject, but as always... it seems that most of it has been said. :( but, Oh well... I happen to think that the only person that enters Finnland will be Thom. I mean, why do they really need anyone else. Thom is quite capable of bringing his own weapons, and Matt really doesn't have much of a connection to this. I think that Juithead is reading too much into the fact that Matt's eye prophecy and Thom's Moraine prophecy are in the same paragraph. In many instances we have sat and listened to Egwene list off prophecies. they probably have nothing to do with each other.
Also, along with The-True-Dragon's response, I agree, the letter is one of the most important pieces of evidence. Thom is constantly reading it... that implies that it has some bearing on the future. I mean, sure... he COULD just be pining for someone he loves who he knows is gone forever... but, he has moved on before, countless times. This time he holds on to it because he knows he doesn't have to move on. He constantly says to himself that the next time he won't not be there. He has to make it, for himself as much as for Moraine.
6
Shadowkiller: 2003-04-08
Mat will use fireworks to break in to the tower while Thom can supply the music. They both have steel in their weapons. Thus the steel, music and fire reference.
7
MattyDaddy: 2003-04-08
Mat has always felt the need to rescue a damsel in distress, through out the series he has gone out of his way to help women. Considering Moraine was a companion, he would probably feel obligated to help her.
Plus i'm sure Mat would want to get even.
So it really isn't that far fetched that he might try to rescue Moraine.
8
Highbreaker: 2003-04-12
Stop me if I'm wrong... I am planning on rereading the series... but, I thought Matt didn't really like Moiraine at all. He has never trusted Aes Sedai, Moiraine least of all. I can't see why he would go out of his way to help a person he doesn't like. Also, Blast into the tower of Genji!?!?! you can do that? I thought it was in another dimension. you know, like Tel'Aran'Rhiod, or those places they accidentally went to with the portal stone. I may be wrong there too... but I really don't remember it being a physical place in the 'real' part of Randland.
9
Anubis: 2003-04-12
I dont think mat would let thom go alone. for one, thom is his friend and mat would stick with him just for that reason. for two, its moirine and while mat didnt particularily like that bloody aes sedai, she is still a mighty fine woman and mat will go far out of his way to save a woman. the only way i could see mat not helping is if thom convinced matt that it was something he had to do on his own.
10
Pips: 2003-04-15
I think Mat or Aludra will be the key to getting in. Cannons are totally unheard of in the 3rd age, after all, and are immune to things that would block the power, but nearly as powerful as big knock to the head with the source. They are the only things I can imagine being able to break the tower.
Plus, think about it. Mat's pretty much the most tortured character in the series. And can you really see him giving up an eye for any other thing? Can you imagine anyone actually demanding his eye as payment besides the 'finns? Can you imagine him loosing his eye in a mundane battle instead of in some magic-type heroic thing? Mat is simply the perfect character to make that sacrifice. He doesn't want to be a hero, by RJ's ironic standards that means he ends up doing some of the most heroic things of all. Someone will have to make a sacrifice, by the ‘Finn's rules, and can you really see Rand doing that, for Moiraine? Maybe Thom, but I doubt it.
11
The Leveler: 2003-04-15
I think you're right. Olver is needed to figure out a way to beat the 'finns at theier own game (or atleast the needed judicous cheating) and I think it's just Mat, Thom, and Olver. And didn't it say "iron", not steel?
12
Highbreaker: 2003-04-15
Pips, how can you say that Thom wouldn't make that sacrifice... I mean really, so many reason's for him to do it...
1)He loves her... if you can't see that, you gotta go back and reread the books...
2)He constantly speaks of how he HAS to be there for those who need him... He has left Dena, and his poor nephew, among so many other people that he has only Hinted at to die at the hands of sick, and twisted laws and people... He is one of the smartest guys in the series, he knows how twisted the **finns are...
3)WE know how brave he is... how can you doubt his valor or sense of selflessness after fighting a Fade single handed to save Matt and Rand? He didn't even LOVE them.
4)The letter... Moiraine practically made it his responsibility. He is the only one who knows what is in that letter, and he hasn't showed it to anyone else... this means he isn't planning on passing the responsibility.
Matt on the other hand, has NO personal motives, and only the idea that he can figure out how to get in under his sleeve. But Thom is that smart too. He'll figure it out just as well.
13
Highbreaker: 2003-04-16
Yo! the Leveler... just to let you know. Steel is made from Iron in the bessemer process. I am sure that is misspelled, hahahaha.... you fire iron with carbon based coal.... there is some more to it.. but that is all I know.
Yeah so, um... anyway... Steel is Iron.
14
araqyl: 2003-04-25
Steel _was_ iron, but the process changes it... and iirc Mat had his dozen knives tucked away about his person each time he entered one of the finn domains...
15
Highbreaker: 2003-04-28
araqyl - I don't know about when he went through the Tear Gateway, but when he went through tthe one in Ruidean, he HAD to remove all of his weapons... The Aiel MADE him. I remember readeing that chapter and cracking up. He takes off his main weapons, then starts unloading this huge piile of knives, pulling them out of all sorts of weird places, including the small of his back...he tries to keep the one in his boot, but gets caught. I think his number if weapons even impresses the Aiel... oh yeah, what does IIRC mean?
16
araqyl: 2003-04-30
Sorry, I managed to forget about Mat dumping all his weapons - must have been distracted by Aviendha's nude dash.
In Tear, however, Mat simply walked in - he knew nothing about the finns except that they answered three questions (thanks to one of the girls).
iirc = if I recall correctly.
17
Callandor: 2003-05-31
Mat replies that they are steel not iron (his daggers I mean).
18
aan-Allein: 2003-07-15
I believe Moiraine is the damane Mylen so my whole idea is based on that ( I know Teslyn calls her shemaille but I also think Teslyn is black). The fire Thom pulls her out of is more likely just a reference to the danger he'll put himself in in order to save her.
19
aan-Allein: 2003-07-15
I don't think the Finn still have Moiraine with them...I think she's now one of Tuon's damane
20
rubbernilly: 2003-07-15
aan -
agreed on Thom going into danger to save Moiraine, but I quite strongly disagree that Moiraine is the captive damane.
That's Shemaille, or whatever her name was. It doesn't matter that Teslyn is Black Ajah. I think the chapter where we get the information that the damane was familiar to Teslyn is in Teslyn's point of view, so there's no reason for her to lie to herself.
No way. Moiraine is stilled and on the Finn side of the gateway.
21
meradin: 2003-08-09
I'm impressed... well thought out theory.
22
Murrin: 2003-09-23
"Luck his soul, lightening his eye"
That is in the prophecies about Mat. 'Luck his soul' refers to the fact that he seems to have permanent god luck. 'Lightening his eye' is another clue to his eye. Apparently his eye is exchanged for something to do with 'lightening' (Fireworks? Weapons? I don't have a clue as of yet).
Mat would take any chance he got to return to the Eelfinn, since he still believes they cheated him and wants his own back. If he somehow found himself there, or with a means of getting there, he would take advantage of it.
A thought just occured to me - In Rhuidean, Mat said 'Open a doorway' and yet the Eelfinn seemed to ignore this and respond to the next one he said instead. What if they had actually opened a doorway, or given him the means? We know that the Aelfinn broke the agreement and gave him a fourth answer, so why couldn't the Eelfinn have granted four requests? Perhaps Mat unknowingly has the means to open the Tower of Ghenjei - this would allow Mat to enter (to exchange his eye to save the world), and Thom (to bring back Moiraine).
23
Vimmzy: 2004-02-02
"Also, Blast into the tower of Genji!?!?! you can do that? I thought it was in another dimension. you know, like Tel'Aran'Rhiod, or those places they accidentally went to with the portal stone."
well that is not true iirc. when Mat, Rand and Thom were traveling down the river after the trolloc attack at shadar logoth i remeber mat seeing something gleaming in the distance, and he asked the captain about this and the captain said something about a mysterious tower all in metal that was rumored to be a dangerous place or something similar. Mat then answered that he wanted to go there because he was sure there was a treasure there. i believe this is the tower of ghenji.
