1
Tamyrlin: 2002-12-29
Although, if it was a straight "death" issue...then why is Lanfear not as powerful in this new body? We haven't been led to believe that the body matters for the power, like the daggers, they channel the power their souls are connected to and they do not tell us that they can channel less. So, maybe Lanfear's soul was transmigrated to a new body...but not necessarily killed by the finns? But we have more instances of non-forsaken's visiting finnland and not dying so I don't think that your argument is definitive. :)
2
Callandor: 2002-12-29
I'm a firm believer that Lanfear asked for a way out of the finnland as one of er wishes. But she got gypped, like Mat did with his hanging and almost death, and instead of being Lanfear afterwards got transfered to her new body of Cyndane. Her power reduction could be from the same thing. Its just like the X-Files with Mulder and the Jinn. You can have safties for everything so they can find a hole through almost anything. Say you wanted a way out without dying and you were a channeler, they might reduce your power in order for you to leave.
3
migster: 2002-12-30
Just possibly the reduction of power is the result of being stilled and then healed. It's the only time we've seen channelling ability reduced. So, the explosion/crash through the doorway/fight with Moiraine caused her to be stilled and her bargain with the 'finns was to be healed and the price was coming back as Cyndane.
The problem here is that Cyndane means last chance and seems to be the sense of humor of the D.O. However, the stilling and healing can still be the reason she has been reduced in power.
4
biiwkimrur: 2003-01-01
Yes, Moiraine is definatly dead. Partly because of the Lanfear thing, and mostly for one plain and simple reason: if she was alive, her bond with Lan wouldn't have been broken, which it was.
5
Callandor: 2003-01-06
Umm... I dont think ANY Aes Sedai that has the bond has gone to another dimension like the way Lanfear and Moiraine did.
6
araqyl: 2003-04-25
The Bond with Lan was not broken, it was passed; something that could be done at any time, not just at the point of death. While she told Lan the Bond was set to pass when she died, that doesn't mean she didn't pass it on earlier - and if she was stilled (possible, given what happened to Lanfear) then that would have a similar effect on the Bond.
So, in my view, we have either an unharmed Moiraine who chose to pass the Bond as she hit Lanfear or a stilled Moiraine stuck in Finnland.
7
jinn: 2003-07-02
Yet, Min said it herself. She never saw Moiraine dying or dead. She'd never been wrong about something so momentous before. I don't really think she's wrong now. There's something going on and Moiraine is incommunicado but I doubt she's dead.
8
CJH68: 2003-08-26
Sorry, I don't have the volume / page references for this quote...
"Min sighed regretfully, but it was not as if she had really expected Moiraine to turn up alive. Moiraine was the only viewing of hers that had ever failed."
When I came across this quote, I immediately thought that Moiraine is still alive!!!
Why?
Because of Min's extraodinary accuracy with her viewings. I reasoned that it was far more probable that Min's viewing was again correct and that Moiraine was alive - possibly trapped with the Finn's - than Min being incorrect for the first time ever and Moiraine being dead.
9
Mat: 2003-10-29
Keep in mind that the bond can be broken by the Aes Sedai being Stilled.
As for Lanfear dying and Moiraine not. Only Lanfear was channeling, and quite a bit too, when moiraine tackled here through the doorway.
Also remember that Moiraine saw events of her life through Ruidean, I do not hink she would knowingly kill herself for no reason, and since Lanfear is back as Cyndane her death would have meant nothing. I think she saw what was going to happen after she tackled Lanfear, and saw that Thom would be the one to save her, and I believe those details are in the note we never get to read that she gave to Thom.
If it was just names of Aes Sedai invovled in gentling Owen why would RJ not just show us the list. We all assume Elaida was involved in it already.
then along with the viewings listed above, the failed one of Min's along with the viewing of Thom and Matt.
I believe Moiraine is alive possibly stilled and in Finnland. I think Matt will be around while Thom saves Moiraine but a little preoccupied with other matters.
Thats all for now, I really need to get my books out to make quotes rather then just conjecture.
10
Callandor: 2003-10-30
**Only Lanfear was channeling, and quite a bit too, when moiraine tackled here through the doorway.**
No, Moiraine was channeling too. She embraced saidar and held as much as she could and then tackled Lanfear through the doorway.
11
a dragonburned fool: 2003-10-31
Cyndane's PoV states she was CAPTURED by the eelfinns. And how a dead person could be "captured"? No way. But there is possibility she was captured and onother local events ocuurder to her different from Moirain's situation, and after that Lanfear died not from the passing the ter'angreal but from something happened to her in Finnland later.
12
scion2: 2003-11-17
CJH68; The viewing that Min is refering to could be an earlier one that we hear (can't remember which) inwhich she says that Moiraine will be present at TG. It is possible that Moiraine will be present as a Hero of the Horn. Min will still be right but not as she expected.
13
enderwiggin: 2004-06-18
Moiraine is definitely still alive. In TSR paperback pg 279 moiraine says "And i will see you again." seeing as she had just come out of the redstone doorway, and was speaking to thom and making allusions to her answers recieved there, in combo with the fact that the first oath forbids her to tell a lie, obviously shows that the finns told her she would see thom again, which hasn't happened since TSR because Moiraine disappears in the next book
14
Cha Faile: 2004-12-17
While i don't think that Moiraine is dead, i think that if she is reborn or brought back to life it would be too predictable. Maybe it's just me being sceptical, but i think that if she is reborn, everyone would be really disappointed. Apart from the fact that lots of rebirths have taken place so far, i think that RJ will either keep her dead or create an elaborate rescue/rebirth idea. If Moiraine is still alive and comes back into the plot, she certainly won't be as we remember her. The cynical side of me would say that she was dead if it wasn't for Min's viewing...
15
damane: 2004-12-19
"If Lanfaer died I see no hope that Moiraine lived unless the people in the gate don't like Forsaken."
Straight from Moiraine's mouth: "Most importantly, questions touching the Shadow have dire consequences."
Clearly, they hate the Shadow.
16
Callandor: 2004-12-22
**Clearly, they hate the Shadow.**
No, they give punishments to ~questions~ about the Shadow; there is no given stance of the Finn for Light or Shadow that I know of. They are not truely "Shadow evil", nor are they truely good though.
17
Darren: 2005-03-01
The more that I think about it, the more it seems that the reason Lan could no longer sense Moiraine was that she was severed.
Of course she's not dead.
18
Aiel Finn: 2005-03-02
I'm going to say it again. In tDR, Moiraine tells Lan that she can transfer the bond at any time. When she goes through the door way, and finds that it melted and she has no easy way back, she transfers the bond because she doesn't want Lan trying to find her. She didn't have to be stilled or killed to shift the bond. The bond did not snap, it just shifted to the green sister in Salidar.
19
Darren: 2005-03-03
The problem with your idea, which I will admit holds a POSSIBILITY of being correct, is Lan's mental state after the transfer. He acts as one whose Aes Sedai has died, which we all know is supposedly the effect of feeling the death through the bond... Witness how joyless he is even to see Nynaeve at first. If the bond had simply been transferred, this makes little sense. No, SOMETHING happened to Moiraine on the other side of that doorway (do you really imagine that she landed in clover over there, atop Lanfear as she was,) and some part of it was carried along the bond to Lan.
20
Frenzy: 2005-03-03
from tFoH: “She is gone. I cannot feel her presence.” The words sounded ripped out of Lan's chest. He turned and began walking down the line of wagons without a backward glance.
Would ol' stoneface have that level of gut-wrenching reaction from a simple bond transferrance? Would Myrelle have to attempt to save/rehabilitate him if there wasn't a death/stilling at the other end of his bond?
Granted there's enough ambiguity in Lan's comment to give folks enough wiggle-room to think she's still alive. But given Lan's mindset, i doubt it.
21
Aiel Finn: 2005-03-03
I beleve that he thought that she said that she wouldn't transfer the bond until her death. Does anyone have a quote for this? It would be in tGH or tDR.
22
Callandor: 2005-03-04
**Would ol' stoneface have that level of gut-wrenching reaction from a simple bond transferrance? Would Myrelle have to attempt to save/rehabilitate him if there wasn't a death/stilling at the other end of his bond?**
A doorway into another temperal dimension being destroyed, trapping the person on the other side, ~might~ have an effect on the bond ;) I could see it easily destroying it, without severing Moiraine (let alone killing her).
23
Tamyrlin: 2005-03-04
Callandor, you and I typically agree on most theories, but how can you push the "doorway" being the reason the bond broke? We have no reason to believe the Finns are outside the Pattern. If the dimension is inside the Pattern, like MW's, or the GOI, why should we assume the doorway could cut the bond, when we know there are other ways into finnland such as the Tower?
24
Frenzy: 2005-03-04
There are other doors, Callandor. Remember the Tower of Ghenjei? Just because you now have to hike a thousand miles out of your way to get to the next bridge doesn't mean you can't still see the other side of the chasm.
25
Callandor: 2005-03-04
**We have no reason to believe the Finns are outside the Pattern.**
They aren't, however, their world has radically different sets of natural laws (the letter from RJ is at WoT FAQ). The exit from that dimension being destroyed (quite violently I would say, but what kinda classifications are there for "violent destruction" versus "destruction"? ;)), could have some effect on the bond very similar to severing, since the exit has been "severed" so to say.
**If the dimension is inside the Pattern, like MW's, or the GOI, why should we assume the doorway could cut the bond, when we know there are other ways into finnland such as the Tower?**
Because when Rand, Mat, and Moiraine entered the doorway in Tear, they all exited the same way. They don't pop out the Tower of Ghenjei; they go out where the entered.
Once in Finnland, an exit could be reduced to that only exit. Could be why the doorway is quite easy to get to. But I do freely admit its mostly supposition (Moiraine being alive is not though, Frenzy ;):P).
