and/Aiel blood
by cow defender: 2003-05-04 | Not yet rated
I'm re-reading the shadow rising and in there on page 822 Melaine says:
"the prophecy says 'a remnant of a remnant shall be saved...whatever your blood, and your face, you have no feeling for us. I will make you know our blood for yours..."
There is a prophecy saying something about Rand's 'blood' on the rocks of Shayol Ghul. That blood could be the Aiel, who all die at SG. Maybe the Last Battle is not at SG but somewhere in the South. Rand then makes a strike at SG while the DO and his forces are concentrated South at the Battle, which is fought by Perrin, Mat and Logain, who can look like Rand using the Power. That could also be his glory-halo. As for the remnant of a remnant being saved that could be a number of things. 1. The Shaido 2. Those caught with the 'bleakness' or those ga'shain who refuse to give up the white. or 3. Something else.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-05-09
I would be surprised if the DO wasn't expecting another "surprise" attack from LTT, since he was sealed away for three thousand years during the last Last Battle. As you pointed out, the Aiel will take part and will definitely die in droves. They have been preparing to face the DO all of their lives and this will be their death and redemption from when they failed the Aes Sedai and turned from the Way. You could say that Rand is a remnant, only half Aiel, and his children would be the remnant of a remnant, but I believe it will also have to do with those caught up in the bleakness who have returned to Rhuidean.
2
Vaughn882: 2003-05-09
I really like your Logain masquerading as Rand to throw off the Dark One idea. The idea that ogain will pose as Rand has been expressed before, but the purpose was always thought to be to fool the world into thinking Rand was dead or something, not to fool the DO. I dont know about the Last Battle being fought in the south, though.
3
cow defender: 2003-05-09
yeah but here's the thing. do they ever actually say that the last battle will be fought at SG? If they do a little bit of this theory will need some tweaking but....
4
Callandor: 2003-05-09
The remnant of a remnant in my mind is the remaining Aiel after the Shaido have been destroyed, the first seperation was from the Jenn Aiel.
As for the blood thing, everybody is saying its Rands children, or its the Aiel, or something else. It just seems to me to be what it is: Rand dying at Shayol Ghul. He will die, but his soul will live on to be the next Dragon. Hence, completing the **to live you must die** prophecy that the Finn gave to Rand.
5
moose: 2003-05-10
Rand, since he realised he was DR, has been hung up on "spilling his blood on the rocks of SG" (paraphsed) he interprets this as his inevitable death. it's seemed blatantly obvious to me from the 1st that the prophercy _does_not_ say "DR will die at SG", i see the "bleeding" refering to his two belly wounds which will be torn open during the final battle but will then finally heal.
As for the "remnant of a remnant" my feeling is we are already there. the aiel that Rand live's thru in Rhuidean are the 1st "remnant", they pack up their massive caravan (1000s ppl?)full of **greal and chora and depart their city but they are NOT all the aiel (no book to check for quote but it's in there). as for the second remnant take your pick, the "non-jenn" aiel, the aiel after rand breaks them (my fav), the siswai aiel, etc.
i've seen suggestions that the Tinkers are the descendants of the Jenn, i seem to remember rand's ancestor meeting the last elderly Jenn and being told they were soon to be no more. so who _are_ the Tinkers? there's obviously a link to the aiel but i dont feel they are Jenn. any1?
6
Flinn: 2003-05-10
I like the idea that the blood spilt will be the aiel's. It makes alot of sense. Rand is part aiel. The "remnant of a remnant" could be those that survive the last battle, who are a remnant of the remaining aiel.
7
Callandor: 2003-05-11
The Tinkers are the Aiel who wanted toe keep the Way of the Leaf, but didnt want to carry around all the AEs Sedais stuff (angreals and such that went to Rhuidean).
8
Darren: 2003-05-11
I like this theory, it's got some good ideas, but the idea of Rand dying at the LB is hardly from that line of the prophecies alone. Let's not forget the vision of Rand and the three women about him as he is on his funeral byre.
He's not gonna make it. Whatever else the Wheel of Time is, it remains a retelling of stories from the majority of "mythologies" and "religions" of our history. RJ admits this.
And as much as Rand is King Arthur when he draws the "Sword from the Stone," he remains, more than anything,a reinterpretation of Jesus.
And Shayol Ghul is his Golgotha. As with Golgotha, after a suitable period, there will be some form of rebirth. I honestly don't know what form this will take, but this has been foretold from the beginning.
Look at your Davidson's Dictionary of Angels "In Gnosticism, the Dragon is the Angel of Dawn." Does that sound like the "Lord of the Morning" to you?
And what is the dawn? The rebirth. Rand's rebirth heralds the end of the Third Age and the "beginning" (there are no beginnings nor endings....) of the Fourth Age.
9
araqyl: 2003-05-12
I like this theory, but feel that the evidence points to the blood flowing directly from Rand - especially given that very oblique reference in the Fisher piece that Moridin inspects so carefully at one stage.
I'm quite confident that thousands of Aiel die (as they are), but believe that it will be Rand's personal store of blood that leaks to defeat the DO.
Also, I don't see this 'remnant of a remnant' being any specific group or offshoot from the Aiel people - just the survivors of the current problems and LB, who have come through alive while most of their family and friends died. Since it appears that all groups of Aiel are being cut down at a roughly equal rate, I see some support in the books for this view of decimation rather than miraculous protection of any one group.
10
perlchild: 2003-05-27
It's interesting how the tinkers are supposed to find "the song" and that the original Da'shain Aiel, in book four, seemed to dance to bring sanity to a male channeler, at Tzora... It could be that they will do the same at Tarmon'Gaidon... for Rand, to keep him sane, and bleed for him...
I also find the references to Jak O' the Shadows by Mat intriguing, perhaps in his memories, he has found "The Song" the tinkers seek.
A remnant of a remnant might be those Aiel Rand recognizes enough not to kill...
11
heronblade: 2003-06-04
i agree with the idea that it has to be rands blood. i think his wounds will open, but that the blood from the dagger wound will be important
i cant see matts song being THE song, its a fighters song of death. it doesnt seem much like the type of song for a tinker. has matt met any tinkers yet? what about whats his name, Aram? with perrin? wouldnt he have recognised to. (i need sleep its 2.30
8-o )
12
crispyroach: 2004-02-11
Remember that Rand is 1/2 Aiel. This means he is ALSO 1/2 Andorian. It could be anyones blood if you look at it that way. It will be his blood.
13
Brendan Reborn: 2004-06-08
I think the remnant of a remnant will actually be sorted like this:
The original : Da'shain Aiel(very peaceful)
The remnant: Aiel, Tinkers
Remnant of a Remnant: The Gaishan and those of the Aiel that refuse to fight
14
Fourth Age Historian: 2008-08-21
First, I think it's tough to do more than speculate on what "his blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul" means exactly, but given how hard Rand is focusing on one interpretation, I have to assume that that is the *wrong* one. Prophecy tends to be fishy like that. I'm not saying he won't die...I'm convinced he will, and whether or not it's "permanent" I can't be sure of. I just think it will happen elsewhere, and the blood at Shayol Ghul will not lead directly to his death.
Also, I think it is pretty clear that Tarmon Gaidon will happen *everywhere* (East and North, West and South, and so on) or at least all over the Westlands, and perhaps the whole continent. RJ has said the action will never get to Seanchan, but it wouldn't surprise me if part of the fight happened there, offscreen.
Here is a twisted idea about that directional comment...what if it's even more extreme than we thought...like perhaps Shara and the Blight versus the Westlands and Waste (with Seanchan and the islands)?
