fter the Last Battle
by Sir Ffej: 2003-05-12 | Not yet rated
Rand connot die. I point to the following quote as proof:
"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on edge of a blade." -Nicoloa (LoC, 353)
The first three symbols appear to be Elayne, Min, and Avendha, and the forth is Rand. Then it says the last battle is over, that the return, probaly the seanchan, has the land in turmoil, while the Asha'man, guardians, and Aes'Sedia, servants, are even.
You cannot rate theories without first logging in. Please
log in.
1
Tamyrlin: 2003-05-21
Some interpret this quote to mean that Rand may die, but his soul will live on, like other Heroes. For example, when Birgitte dies, she lives on in T'A'R. But I tend to agree that Rand won't die...not after 12-13 books, just bad policy as a writer, but he can kill pretty much anyone else. Knowing Jordan, he will probably leave us to wonder...that will be the most enduring theory after the series, "Does Rand still live?"
2
cow defender: 2003-05-21
and it would fit arthurian legend, arthur taken to avalon to return when britain needs him the most. rand to return when randland needs him the most.
-and all in the defense of cows.
3
Callandor: 2003-05-21
I go with that Rand will die at the Last Battle but his soul will live on to be reborn again and again: The Dragon.
4
Wolfblade: 2003-05-22
I think Rand will die and I think the reason that his lives on is that he will live in the horn of Valere.
5
Rand alThor15: 2003-05-22
I always thaught that Rand doesn't die, LTT in his head does, and him lying down and the three girls around him and all is him in some sort of half dead half alive state and the three girls are taking him to nynaeve or Dramer flinn to be healed completely...or maybe even both, for they might need saidin and saidar to heal this "wound"
6
delboy: 2003-05-23
Side point: does the "three on the boat" refer to the three girls, or the fact that the dragons abilities and duties are tied up in three people (see other theories)?
7
Capiam: 2003-05-23
Something I just noticed, the line that says "and the guardians balance the servants."
Aes Sedai: Servant Of All
Asha'Man: Guardian/Defender
Guardians balance the servants? Perhaps this indicates that the black and white towers will once again be joined after the last battle
8
Tyr: 2003-06-01
This verse is pretty straight forward, except for "Three on a boat, he who is dead yet lives", this is the only part that can be misinturpretted.
What does a boat have to do with anything? And there is only three on this boat, not four.
9
Callandor: 2003-06-02
Could be a Sea Folk burial for the Coramoor?
10
solomonrex: 2003-06-03
I asked the same thing on a message board, and according to the white book (I think) Shayol Ghul used to be a nice tropical island in the middle of a sea. The idea is that perhaps the blight will go away and we'll have another sea up there when the Dragon defeats the DO.
11
Ellistann: 2003-11-24
As far as the boat thingie, It's either Vikings that make their funeral piers in boats, set them on fire and let the boats go downstream.
I believe Min had a viewing in EOTW about three women standing around his funieral pier. So these could be related.
12
Anubis: 2003-11-25
it doesnt help that there are so many fuggin threes
rands three ladies
rands three voices
rand mat perrin
i think the one that fits best though is rand matt and perrin. there all in the same boat, on the same journey and tied together, and rand is the one who is dead and yet live, whatever you believe that means.
13
SugarBullet: 2003-11-25
Wouldn't it be fun if after the last battle, rand lives again but wants nothing to do with the rest of the world any more. Rand could go all "bhudda" and sit under the tree of life for the rest of his years.
14
natas: 2003-11-26
I agree that Rand will not die, but not necessiarly based solely on this fortelling. Don't have time to find the quotes, but "his blood on the rocks of Shayol Guel", "twice to live, twice to die", LTT's voice in his head, and I'm sure there are others I'm not remembering now. It all points to LTT finally being separated from Rand, and dying in some fashion, with Rand living on. Rand's blood on the rocks doesn't mean he dies. Prophecy, has a strange way of being "nearly" right, but hardly ever on point.
It's hard to believe that Jordan would have a greater battle after the "last Battle". Hence, the references to the world divided by the return, is certainly the Seanchan, but I think that this battle is not the killing kind, but that of some form of government battle. It would be surprising to find out that the Seanchan are a greatly evil than the DO.
The balance between the Black Tower and the White Tower could mean an age begun similar to that of the age of legends, when men and women of the power work together.
The future teetering on a blade edge, could mean that people won't take the "change" very well. Going from horse and carts, to glowbulbs and sho-wings, can be hard to deal with. Thus Rand and Co. will have a hard time bringing this new technological age into being, and establishing comity among the nations.
15
Brendan Reborn: 2004-06-08
**Rand connot die. I point to the following quote as proof: **
Rand has to die in order to save the world. It's prophecy.
**"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on edge of a blade." -Nicoloa (LoC, 353)**
I tend to think that the three on a boat are Elayne, Min, and Aviendha, and that "he who has died yet lives" interprets to some metaphoric phrase for his children. I think that it has more to do with all his lovers and kids after the battle. About the land divided...edge of a knife sentences. It WILL still be "battle of the killing kind". RJ has statedhe won't tie up all loose ends. You can't beleive that after TG world peace will be established. There will be conflicts between the seanchan and the rest of randland.
16
tex: 2004-07-22
Rand will die if I interpret these quotes right.
"he who is dead yet lives.” Refers Rand's children who carry on his life. This fits since it mentions his three girlfriends in the first part of the quote.
"his blood on the rocks of Shayol Guel", could caused by a wound or his 'Blood' could mean his decendents such as his "own flesh and blood." arriving on the rocks of Shayol Guel but more likely he is going to die.
"twice to live, twice to die" does not mean he will survive, it Refers to Rand and Lews Theron.
Poor Rand. It looks bad for him, but I don't think any prophacy has been broken since the WoT began.
17
Saldean Farm Boy: 2004-07-29
Here is my long standing thought on this one.
Rand will either submit or loose control to Lewis Therin at the last battle. In defeating the DO the Dragon will shed his blood on the rocks of SG. He will die doing this. The Rand "part" will live. This fulfills the "Twice to live twice to die" prophecy. Both the Dragon and Rand will live twice and die twice in this example.
With that being said I believe the world will believe Rand dead, and that Rand will pefer it that way.
18
Merk: 2005-04-27
I don't think there'll be a return to an Age of Legends-like time with showings etc after the LB. We've got a ways to go around the wheel before we get to that time again. I do think it will be the beginning of the next age.
Some of the previous Ages (thus future Ages, because of the way the Wheel works) didn't know the DO existed (for example, the AoL until the Bore was made.) So perhaps Rand et al will reseal the DO so completely that it sets the stage for Ages in the future in which people will think the DO is just a myth, and even that will fade before we get to the AoL again. Personally I think this is likely, though I doubt the books will look that far into the future.
Or perhaps something will happen to the OP to block it off, to set us up for Ages (like our own) in which the ability to channel is unknown.
These are just some possibilities for the Age(s) to come (I think a new one will be ushered in after the LB), not theories for what will happen *right after* the LB. I personally believe it would be best for Rand to die. It would be more dramatic and interesting and set the nations up for free-for-all squabbles now that the one who united them is gone. Plus the thought of Rand just fading away is sort of anticlimatic.
19
Aiel Finn: 2005-04-29
What if the masking the OP must be traded for sealing the bore? That would be very dramatic, and would give the setup for our age.
20
clocklotion: 2005-05-29
My take on the Ffej's quote is this: the lion sword, dedicdated spear, and she who sees beyond, are obviously (to me) Elayne, Aviendha, and Min (in that order).
"Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives." I take two ways. For both ways I take it that Rand has survived: "He who is (was) dead, yet (now he) lives". And after surviving no longer has the will or energy to be on this plane. I see peace with Seanchan for the Last Battle and that could be where he is going on the boat but the destination I am thinking is a side issue to this theory.
Now the first way I take this quote is that there are a total of three people, assuming Elayne cements her position as Queen of Andor she would not be able to go with Rand on his self-imposed exile because of duty and honor and all that other stuff that she has exhibited as holding very dear. So Min and Aviendha having no real ties to the world anymore (assuming that only a remnant of a remnant remain of the Aiel and Min was never really tied down anyhwere anyway). They go with Rand and plan to live their days out in some big threesome.
The second way I see it is that there are a total of 4 on the boat, "three on the boat" ALONG WITH "he who is dead yet lives." That would include Elayne I guess.
But then I guess this all could be wrong. If the beginning of the EoTW is any indication RJ finds the tragedy far more dramatic and satisfying than the happy ending and we'll likely see a good portion of our beloved characters die.
I do however see Mat and Perrin but especially Perrin surviving for some reason. Mat the reluctant hero could rush off leading some suicide raid all the while cursing his bad luck and get stomped but Perrin I see surviving.. for some reason.
ONE last thing before I go. In tGH, before Rand leaves Shienear Lan pulls him aside and teaches him one last "move", the "Sheathing of the Sword." This scene always seemed to have a special signifigance and I haven't really seen that played out anywhere yet. Could this be a allusion to the Last Battle. Think Neo and Smith at the end. To win Neo must allow Smith to assimilate. Could that be it? The DO takes control of Rand and THEN to thwart him, Rand Sheathes the Sword? Just a thought..
21
Anubis: 2005-05-29
Rand "sheathed the sword" when he fought Ishmael in the sky above Flame.
Although he certainly expects to do it again.
22
: 2005-05-29
Didn't Rand use Sheathing the Sword at the end of TGH?
23
Merk: 2005-05-29
That no name post was me again. Grr. Anyway, Anubis beat me to it.
24
JakOShadows: 2005-05-29
clocklotion: The only problem with your idea of sheathing the sword is that the DO doesn't seem to work that way. If you think of the DO as having no form at all, then when Rand dies he would not be imprisoned yet. And Rand would be dead so he could not trap the DO.
