andene Killed Adeleas
by Nelty: 2003-01-04 | Not yet rated
This is my first post, so go easy on me.
Interesting that we haven't talked about Vandene and Adeleas meeting first appearance in TGH. Vandene very pointedly asks Moraine if she knows of when or if the Dragon has been reborn. Just after that conversation, a Draghkar appears and tries to kill her, but since she didn't sense its approach, it had to have been shielded by another AS - Vandene or Adeleas - either of which must be BA. Since Adeleas was killed in by BA later, we are left with Vandene as BA.
Further, Adeleas was killed by something in her tea. Any AS of Adeleas experience would never accept tea from someone she didn't trust absolutely. In their traveling party, Vandene is the only one who fits that description.
Finally, why did Vandene have to kill Adeleas. Ispan may have been ready to name Vandene as BA, or Ispan may have revealed the name Messana is using in the WT, or Ispan may have revealed something very vital to the DO that forced Vandene's hand.
Comments?
You cannot rate theories without first logging in. Please
log in.
1
Tamyrlin: 2003-01-04
I really haven't gone through this theory, and its angles very much to dispute anything you say. Do we have moments of Vandene's point of view that would help us decipher if she was Black Ajah? And why is Jordan still bringing it up? Is it simply that Vandene did it? Or is it one of the ones that Elayne is having watched?
2
Isabel: 2003-01-07
About the Draghkar. The Draghkar must have been shielded a few miles off, because aes sedai can sens shadowspan from a few miles away.
So Vandene should have walked or ride there, ánd i believe we see her before that. (not sure though)
But i just think it is unlikely.
Adeleas would also have trust any other Aes sedai. They had no reason to think any was black.
And Ispan was still under the oaths the Black ajah use!!! Talene was under a few oaths, so i suspect one of those oaths in never to betray my sisters.
Or else those oaths are useless.
So i don't think she could have revealed much. And only alviarin knew mesaana in the tower, as far as i know.
At this moment i think Sareitha killed Adeleas. She is way to positive about Daved hanlon. While the other aes sedai aren't.
bye isabel
3
jaellon: 2003-01-15
Isabel makes a valid point: the draghkar would have to be shielded from some distance to prevent Moiraine from sensing its presence. It would be difficult for Vandene to sneak away, summon a draghkar, shield it, and set it on Moiraine, without being discovered.
However, we should not forget that Liandrin left Fal Dara immediately after Moiraine did. TGH seems to suggest that Liandrin left BECAUSE Moiraine did. It is possible that she set the draghkar on Moiraine. Although Vandene may or may not Black Ajah, she may still be innocent in this case.
4
Shadrak Lightbringer: 2003-02-10
I happen to believe Sareitha is the culprit for several reasons, and they are neatly summarized in Infidel's post.
In addition, I find it "highly" unlikely that Adeleas would have not noticed her twin sister was BA who she was very close to. Plus the fact that they are both quite old for being Aes Sedai. It simply doesn't make sense to me that one of two people who spend almost all their time together for "many" years can pull off such a deception.
5
Janstince: 2003-03-10
Another point is Vandene's warder, Jaem. Warders who are DF's are hard to find, as Zera points out for us. Not only that, but if Vandene really wanted Moiraine dead, and wasn't afraid to kill her sister, then I think she would've had Jaem do it by stabbing Lan in the back first, then letting the draghkar have Moiraine. Then Jaem and Vandene could kill Adeleas and they would be happy. Why wait this long? Ishamael's orders were to keep anyone with any brains away from this boy. Not to mention, when would she have time to sneak away from the palace to report to Shiaine? She now has two novices to care for, who will be following her every move, unless by some miracle of the creator or an anonymous ta'veren in the city, the two novices are also black channelers. Now THAT is stretching it...
6
rubbernilly: 2003-05-06
We can't be so quick to jump to conclusions. The Dragghkar would not have to be warded from miles away... I can think of at least 2 ways where it would not have been:
1) It had been warded much earlier. Assuming that Vandene is Black Ajah, it would make sense that she wouldn't want Adeleas to sense any Shadowspawn that Vandene was working with. If the D. was warded when Moiraine and the others approached, they would never have felt it.
2) Assuming again that Vandene is BA, she could be working with a Forsaken, Sammael, for instance, and have had a Talkbox ter'angreal. We see Sammael give one of these to Sevanna. Perhaps he gave one to Vandene, as well. The little bit of channeling required to power the box would not have likely even registered for the other channelers capable of sensing it, or would have gone unremarked since they are channeling all the time anyway - lighting candles, extinguishing candles, warming tea/wine, etc.
I am not arguing that either of these cases is what happened, only that we can't take the statement at face value that: "Vandene couldn't have warded the Dragghkar because she would have had to have done it miles away." And since 1) that statement is the only proof that people have used to show that Vandene did *not* order the Dragghkar attack, 2) I have shown two scenarios where she *could* have ordered the attack, this issue is still open, and still a possibility.
7
matoyak: 2004-08-12
there is NO SUCH THING as a "talkbox terangreal" that is thrown away by graendal's thoughts (quotemasters help) sammy was just trying to spread chaos by messing with the shaido and sending them to the 4 corners of randland. btw only alviarin even knows about messana soooo.
8
Callandor: 2004-08-12
** there is NO SUCH THING as a "talkbox terangreal" that is thrown away by graendal's thoughts (quotemasters help)**
It's not a talk box. It's a callbox.
**TITLE: Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: 20 - Patterns Within Patterns
The watcher ghosted through the trees, making no sound. *It was wonderful what you could learn with a callbox, especially in a world where there seemed to be only two others.* That red dress was easy to follow, and they never looked back even to see whether some of those so-called Aiel were trailing them. Graendal maintained the Mask of Mirrors that hid her true form, but Sammael had dropped his, golden-bearded again and just head and shoulders taller than she. He had let the link between them dissolve, too. The watcher wondered whether that was wise, under the circumstances. He had always wondered how much of Sammael's vaunted bravery was really stupidity and blindness. But the man did hold saidin; perhaps he was not completely unaware of his danger.**
Two others besides the one Moridin has. Sammael has one, and Sevanna has one. No others apparent.
9
Zaela Sedai: 2004-08-12
Well Moridin, says they do exist
**TITLE: Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: 20 - Patterns Within Patterns
The watcher ghosted through the trees, making no sound. It was wonderful what you could learn with a callbox, especially in a world where there seemed to be only two others. That red dress was easy to follow, and they never looked back even to see whether some of those so-called Aiel were trailing them. Graendal maintained the Mask of Mirrors that hid her true form, but Sammael had dropped his, golden-bearded again and just head and shoulders taller than she. He had let the link between them dissolve, too. **
This is what Sammael gave to scatter them
**TITLE: Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: 40 - Spears
Reaching into his bag, Caddar drew out a gray stone cube, smaller than the callbox she had used to summon him, and much plainer, with no marking but a bright red disc set in one face. "This is a nar'baha" he said. "It uses saidin, so none of you will see anything, and it has limits. If a woman touches it, it won't work for days afterward, so I will have to hand them out myself, and it has other limits. Once opened, the gateway will remain for a fixed time, sufficient for a few thousand to go through if they don't waste time, and the nar'baha needs three days to recover afterward. I have enough extra to carry us where we need to go today, but...." **
This I think is the quote you're thinking of, though it relates to the
"nar'baha" not the call boxes.
**TITLE: Crown of Swords
CHAPTER: 40 - Spears
Singing, the Moshaine Shaido ran to dance their deaths. Frowning, Graendal watched the gateway close behind the last of the Jumai Shaido. The Jumai and a great many Wise Ones. Unlike with the others, Sammael had not simply knotted this web so it would fall apart eventually. At least, she assumed he held it to the last; the closing, right on the heels of the last brown-and-gray-clad men, was too fortuitous otherwise. Laughing, Sammael tossed away the bag, still holding a few of those useless bits of stone. Her own empty sack was long since discarded. The sun sat low behind the mountains to the west, half of a glowing red ball.**
10
matoyak: 2004-08-16
thank you callandor and zaela sedai, good to know i could remember something true from the books (even if it was about something completely different than what i was talking about :p
11
Traveller: 2005-07-19
It is possible that it was Adeleas who was Black Ajah, and Vandene found out. She planned to kill Adeleas so that she wouldn't have to confront her, and so that no one else would know. Ispan was killed by Adeleas as a punishment, then Vandene came in with the tea and killed Vandene.
I think that this is highly unlikely, but would explain about how strange Vandene's grief is. I think that one of the sisters could be BA, but I think it depends on who is bonded to Jaem. He would probably know if his AS was BA, and I don't think that he is a Darkfriend, so the sister he is not bonded to could be Black Ajah.
The only reason I posted this was in case Jaem was bonded to Vandene, then this would give a case for Adeleas to be BA
