1
Tamyrlin: 2003-06-12
Well, the best part of that whole scene is the fact that a Fade wrestled with Thom. It reminds me of Neo and the Agent in Matrix 1. Eventually they throw down their weapons and start hitting eachother. But, truly, I don't have an opinion either way on whether or not his knives were special in some way. It is very possible that Thom didn't know, but that he had won a power wrought knife.
2
Callandor: 2003-06-12
I think the only thing that could make a flash-bang in the WoT would be fireworks, and that cant be what Thom used because of his reaction to Mat toying with fireworks and then throwing it in the fire; Thom nearly jumps out of his skin with fear of exploding when Mat opened it.
3
anderwarrick: 2003-06-12
Here is the exact quote with the flash-bang thing:
"'RUN!' The air in the square flashed an eye-searing blue, and Thom began to scream, but even in the middle of the scream he managed a word. 'RUN!'", tEotW Page 399
The flash was BLUE. Not white, so it was probably just that one of Thom's knives hit the Fade's blade. After all, thats what happens when a normal blade and a Fade's blade hit each other right? Thats what i've always thought it was.
4
Jes: 2003-06-13
I had always interpreted the blue flash as Thom throwing flash powder or something similar a magician uses to distract or cover up what he's doing. Thom is also a magician along with juggler and storyteller, after all. So he yells "Run", throws the flash powder to distract the fade, and attacks him, etc. to let the boys escape.
5
rubbernilly: 2003-06-13
No, anderwarrick, only power wrought blades meeting thakan'dar wrought blades produce that effect. Not normal blades.
6
heronblade: 2003-06-16
could it have just been sparks caused by the contact? dull but a possibility
7
oosquai: 2003-06-17
Lan's sword is not power wroght. Those were marked with herons on the blade, like Rand's. But Lan's sword still produces blue flashes in tEotW.
8
Weird Harold: 2003-06-17
oosquai asserted, "Lan's sword is not power wrought. Those were marked with herons on the blade, like Rand's."
Lan's sword is the "Sword Of Malkier"; a power-wrought blade that was part of the regalia of the Kings of Malkier.
The proof is scatter among several quotes, and I'm not sure whether it's Heron Marked or not -- I'm pretty sure it is but there are power-wrought baldes that aren't Heron Marked, and Heron Marked Blades that aren't power-wrought, made by ordinary means to fill the the disparity of more blademasters than power-wrought blades.
9
Vaughn882: 2003-06-17
It says in EotW that Lan's sword is not heron marked, Rand thinks something like: "His sword is just like mine without the heron on it", but i'm too lazy to look up the quote.
One weird thing though, in the Winespring Inn he is sharpening his sword, when its power wrought! Then, later on, he says something like "only idiots sharpen power wrought swords".
Maybe he has 2? Maybe he was smokin too much tabac? Who knows?
10
Him-who-may: 2003-06-18
Lan's sword IS power wrought and HASN'T got any herons on it.
Power wrought blades meeting Fade blades creates a blue flash.
When Thom fought the Fade a white flash was created and a fire was started, whether this was caused by the white flashes or not is un-certain, but Rands seems to think so.
Normal blades metting power wrought or Fade blades creates no flash. This leads me to believe that the flashes were not connected to the blades in anyway. I also agree that it was not due to fire works as Thom's reaction to them later on shows he has little or no experiance with them. I also think that it as not due to Thom channeling as RJ has made it clear Thom can't channel.
So what else?
Ideas anybody?
This is starting to get to me :)
11
heronblade: 2003-06-18
yes, but why would thom have a pr dagger? why would as have made daggers in the first place? i thought lan said as made blades for their warders (in gh) and i haven't seen warders training with daggers or one using one. plus wouldnt they be even rarer that the swords if they had done? if the dagger thom threw in sl was "one of his best" then howmany powerwrought blades must he own?
12
Him-who-may: 2003-06-18
There are power wrought blades. Lan says near the start of The Great Hunt that power wrough weapons arn't just swords, so there could be power wrought knives.
But I don't think Thom has any.
Not only because he lost his best in Shadar-Logarth but also because the flash is the wrong colour.
13
Shadow Bane: 2003-06-18
I do not think the flashes have to do with Thom at all. Have we ever gotten Mat's PoV on this topic. I thinkl it has something to do with Rand not Thom, maybe something to do with the power, Rand couldn't control his channeling at this point. It could have just been Rands overactive-stressed out mind too...
14
Dorindha: 2003-06-19
Thom can't have power wrought blades: when he complains about losing one because it is one of his best, he comments on how hard it is to find a blacksmith who can get the balance just right. Therefore, he uses a normal (if very skilled) blacksmith, and the power is not involved, just metal-working skill.
I can't explain what happened in Whitebridge, and I do think there might be more to it than Thom lets on, but I don't think it was anything to do with Thom's knives. I always thought the blue (?) light that appears just before Thom screams is an effect of the fade, whether literal or metaphorical.
I don't think the burning from Emond's Field is relavant, it was just that Thom helped rescue people from burning buildings - whatever he might say, he is brave!
15
Corlm: 2003-06-22
Well Thom is always more than he lets on. What if he owns one special power wrought knife and thats the special light. Like its anti fade and blade blade. but him having flash bombs seems not that far fetched because people trade gleemans skills for a lot of money valued things. he also seems to be a preatty good chess player and a preaty good gambler. and the fire could be from rand too though. he is feverish ya know?
16
Him-who-may: 2003-06-22
Dorindha has covered all the points that I tried to make in my first post.
The flashes are (I think we all agree) not caused by the knives being in anyway power wrought.
We also are sure due to RJ's own interviews that Thom is not a channeler.
However somebody did bring up the intersting point of Rand perhaps casuing the flashes and fire.
I recently lost my copy of the first 4 books in a house fire so if the relevent passage could be looked at by somebody could they get back to me concerning any evidence indiating Rand suffering any side effects right after the Whitebridge incident.
17
EvilJawa101: 2003-11-11
A random thought, maybe Thom also carriers short sword or something else on him. It could have been that. Secondly, best knives whatever, it could have been Thom's slip of the tounge, or he could have been lying etc.
18
Caramoor: 2003-11-12
Thom is a gleeman. He juggles, tumbles, eats fire. Likely he could have used something that flashed to distract the Fade. Dunno.
19
Cor Shan: 2003-11-12
I like Rand channeling : but all inital wilder channeling appears to be 'unnoticable' ie: (R) Bela not being Tired, (N) healing El and Perrin, Ect.
20
SugarBullet: 2003-11-12
Just a thought, but looking at the quote as it was typed above, it could also be read as the blue flash causing Thom to scream. In this scenario, it would have nothing to do with blades, and everything to do with whatever nasty thing the fade just did to Thom.
21
Eelfinn Ty: 2003-11-13
According to this chat w/ RJ
http://www.dromen-demonen.nl/luitingh_htdocs/transjordan.html
The blue sparks only come from power wrought blades, but these flashed happened before Tom reached the fade.
22
Elder Haman: 2003-11-13
To sum up current debate the following theories have been presented:
1:Thom has power wrought blades and they flashed on meeting the Fade's blade
Problems:
A: Thom lost his best knives, thus it is unlikely that he still has a power wrought dagger.
B: The flashes are the wrong color
C: The flashes appear to occur before Thom tackles the Fade (not certain)
D: When Thom tackle's the Fade, the Fade hade not yet drawn it's blade
Conclusion: This theory is False
2:Rand did something
Problems:
A: No evidence- no sickness afterwards
B: Does not seem to match previous instances of wilder activity
Conclusion: Unlikely, but can't be ruled out
3: Thom did it using his skills as a gleeman (maybe some kind of bag of powder that flashes when thrown) in order to distract the Fade.
I like this theory but there are some big problems:
A: We've never seen Thom do it any other time- and that skill would be useful
B: Why did Thom scream during it if he caused it?
C: Thom seems to dislike fireworks
D: How likely is it that "gleeman powder" would start a fire?
E: The flashes appear to continue beyond the first instance
Conclusion: This Theory is False
Now we come to my Theory:
The flashes were caused by the Fade-
It is clear that Fades have "special abilities," little "tricks" to help them do things. These abilities are limited. This is also the only time we've seen a Fade in a wrestling match. All other conlicts with Fades are at arms length. Therefore I believe that the flashes are a defensive ability of Fades to prevent enemies from engaging in hand to hand combat.
23
natas: 2003-11-13
The passage:
"'Run!' Thom sprang into motion, too, with a long, wordless roar. Not after them, but toward the Myrddraal. His hands flourished as if he were performing at his best, and daggers appeared. Rand stopped, but Mat pulled him along.
The Fade was just as startled. Its leisurely pace faltered in mid-stride. Its hand swept toward the hilt of the black sword hanging at its waist, but the gleeman's long legs covered the distance quickly. Thom crashed into the Myrddraal before the black blade was drawn, and both went down in a thrashing heap. The few people still in the square fled.
'Run!' The air in the square flashed an eye-searing blue, and Thom began to scream, but even in the middle of the scream he managed a word, 'Run!'"
The eye-searing blue could be a gateway, and that's what Thom was screaming at. I doubt it could have been the Fade's sword, as it didn't have it out by then.
And at first, didn't Ishmaeal want to turn Rand to the dark side, not kill him. It could have been one of the forsaken just making sure the Fade didn't kill Rand, just capture him, or drive him. Thom may not have seen who it was, by being blinded by the gateway, but he did see the gateway.
The other thing is Thom didn't die. Only got a bum leg from confrontation. And I don't believe Thom has said how he got away or defeated the Fade yet.
Interesting question.
24
JohnP: 2004-01-09
I'm not sure where I read it but I could swear I read a quote from RJ where he mentions that Thoms knives are "very special". Not sure if that helps at all.
25
dragonsceptor: 2004-01-09
I like the idea that Rand did some wilder trick he didn't know about. One of the points mentioned against this is that it was unlike the previous uses of the power. I don't think that is a valid reason to discount it. Shortly after this on Rand and Mat's trip to Caemlyn, they visit the inn where they are trapped (I believe it is the 4 kings) and Rand calls lightning. It seems like his power was getting stronger throughout TEOTHW. Mat was also acting wierd and it is very plausible that Rand did not notice and oddity from the use of the power with all that going it. I think it is significate that the lightning thing was the first major impact of using the power that Rand experienced.
26
Elder Haman: 2004-01-09
Except that Rand got sick after refreashing Bela, and He got sick after every other use of the power- He did not get sick or foolhardy after the incident with Thom.
I still say it was the Fade
27
Callandor: 2004-01-09
**I'm not sure where I read it but I could swear I read a quote from RJ where he mentions that Thoms knives are "very special". Not sure if that helps at all.**
RJ has given conflicting interview answers to this question. He has said the flash occured before Thom got to the Fade. He has said that Thom does not have Power-Wrought Blades. He has said, and shown, that Power-Wrought Blades and Fade blades, as well as Fade blades and Fade blades, make a blue-flash upon contact. And he has said that Thom's "best knives" were "very speical indeed."
So, consider it dead for a while due to insufficient information.
28
HappyFade: 2004-01-10
http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20040106007/tscript.htm
NY, NY: why was there a blue light flashing when Thom met the fade in whitebridge?
Robert Jordan: Because Thom's best knives are very special indeed.
Uh oh RJ, he doesn't have his best knives anymore.
Sort of contradictory to other things he's said about this incident
Malivar: If a Fades blade will not produce lighting except against other Thakandar wrought blades, and power-wrought blades, Why do Thom's daggers produce it when he attacks the Fade at Whitebridge?
R-JORDAN: thoms daggers did not produce the effect. It was produced before thom reached the fade.
29
Khaos: 2004-03-02
I don't know if have any dates for these conflicting quotes from RJ. Could be that when he originally wrote the books he had no plans to have Thom's blades be powerwrought and the effect to be some Fade power and then later changed his mind (maybe thinking Fades were tough enough as is) re-read what he wrote and realised that making Thom's blades power wrought would fit.
If they are powerwrought there is no reason to think that they are the blades he lost in SL. Throwing knives and knives used in melee combat are very different. Thom specifically references the balance of his lost blades suggesting they were throwing knives and not the type of weapon you would wield if charging at a Fade.
