o taint for you, NEXT!!!!!
by Seeker: 2003-06-18 | Not yet rated
My theory is simple. Rand has not in any way experienced the true affects of the taint. The only madness he experiences is A) multiple personalities and b) at times a volitile temper.
A) I believe to be the fact that he can't reconcile his second set of memories. One mind can't comprehend why it experiences two lives so it partitions itself. I believe this disorder to be a result of Rand's past memories and to have nothing to do with the taint.
I believe severe stress to also be a factor in Rand's multiple personalities.
I also do not believe that the taint causes past life recall - or we would have seen some other sign of this in the text.
b) Rand's temper: again severe stress. Look at both his life and his self-defeating belief system "I'm worthless women should be away from me." You'd be pissed too.
From what we see of the taint, the madness is sudden - not gradual like Rand's. Fedwin Morr for example. And also the reports of mad Asha man - the one who thought spiders were crawling on him.
Taint madness also creates a kind of babbling idiocy but Rand still has much control of his faculties.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-06-24
I disagree. We have no reason to believe that Rand would ever have heard LTT's voice if Saidin was not tainted. Before the taint, this type of split personality thing that Rand has was not heard of, even though LTT was the soul of the previous Dragon reborn. I don't see how you can take your position when considering Cadsuane's statement that some male channelers hear voices that tell them what to do. This is exactly what Rand is experiencing. Now there is a second voice, maybe a third or fourth would have come to him if he hadn't cleansed the taint. I do agree that the taint displays itself in a variety of ways, but hearing voices that speak to "you" is definitely one of them. But, you probably knew my opinion on this. :) Good luck.
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Rand-althor: 2003-06-24
I believe that Morr's madness did come on slowly. I believe in book 8, when Rand gets the note from Taim, i believe the chapter is A Message From The M'hale(sp) and Rand thinks something about madness not always coming in the form of screaming about spiders, then says something about each of the Ashamen with him, which could be interperted as madness (I believe Morrs was habitual silence) so I believe it was gradual, and the stress of the palace being attacked just caused it to emerge more, in the form of wanting to make a castle out of it.
3
Niahanchi: 2003-06-24
A) I have to disaggree as well. Every documented instance of someone going insane has shown gradual signs. It is the moment that they finally go over that is sudden. Kind of like walking towards a cliff and finally falling if you will ;-)
B)I do agree Rand's temper doesn't help matters much. At Dumai's Wells, it seemed as if LTT's temper was actually feeding Rand's. "Free, Lews Therm breathed, and it was an echo of Rand's thought. Free. Or maybe the other way around. They will pay, Lews Therin growled. I am the Lord of the Morning." LOC So while stress does help, it isn't the sole cause.
4
Callandor: 2003-06-24
Its been 2 years and Rand has channeled and done more things with saidin and the taint then any male channeler in at least 3000 years. If he isnt showing signs of the taint in LTT then what else would he be showing signs of? Sure hes moody, Im moody Im not insane, but I dont have a dead voice talking to me. Its the taint.
5
Shadow Bane: 2003-06-24
Sorry but im in total agreement with Tamrylin on this one. The taint has something to do with the voice but that is not to say that it is the ONLY reason why Rand hears LTT. Good luck but i just dont see this one being very plausible.
6
Weird Harold: 2003-06-24
Seeker said, "I believe severe stress to also be a factor in Rand's multiple personalities.
...
b) Rand's temper: again severe stress. ..."
In many ways, the Taint could be described as "Distilled Stress" because many, if not all, of the symptoms it causes can be explained as well by "Stress."
Every time that Rand grasps Saidin, he thinks about how he can feel "the filth seeping into his bones." He is definitely being affected by the Taint and LTT is one of the things about him that changes with increased exposure.
You might have a pont about the rlationship between LTT and the Taint, but there is no way you can rationally claim that Rand is totally unaffected by it.
7
Rand-althor: 2003-06-25
Another point connecting LTT to the Taint, In CoT Rand says that LTT was more solid, more a part of him since the cleansing. Now what did he do at the cleansing? Channel more tainted Saidin than anyone can imagine. So the taint caused LTT to be 'stronger'
8
Mairashda: 2003-06-25
mh...there are some strong arguments in favour of LTTs voice being a sign of the taints effects. BUT I still believe that LTT is a mechanism Rands subconsciousness uses to keep Rands sense of self intact after he gained access to memories of at least his last incarnation while entering TAR in the flesh...
9
Anubis: 2003-06-28
saidin is life right... heightens senses etc etc. maybe after channeling more saidin then anyone in their right mind ever should he is more aware of his lews therin memories / personality. doesnt need to be the taint, but i bet that played a role.
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Callandor: 2003-06-29
How would he channel more then anyone in the world, and not have the taint effect him?
Plus, saidar and saidin enhance senses.
11
danger: 2004-06-16
I agree with seeker beacause Rand is AWARE of his state of sanity "not yet" he says several times.
I personaly think (though many would disagree) that Lews Therin is Alive and a REAL voice. So Rand isn't mad for hearing him.
Also. If YOU heard the voice of a madman in your head and you weren't sure if it was real, or if you had been shoved in a box and beaten, if everyone close to you got hurt, if you had the problem with women dying, and if you had the weight of the world on your sholders...don't you think you might act a little strangly once and a while? I think Rand was still just fine when the taint was removed.
12
Anubis: 2004-06-18
strangly? i would balefire everyone who got in my way. it makes for a perfect murder if you keep the residue small enough and balefire anyone who detects it. the pattern would last all of three days with me in rands shoes :P
13
wattj69: 2004-06-20
one thing to remember about the taint: it probably doesn't work a certain way all the time. I mean something that brings on madness is probably pretty chaotic. in some cases it could be sudden madness. in some it could be a slow proess. with Rand maybe all it did was lower his mental defenses so the split personality could come forward. I agree that the temper is just a natural thing though.
14
Aiel Finn: 2004-11-16
The taint may be responsible for LTT's memories. These were most prevalent when Rand uses Callandor alone, remember it lacks the taint buffer. However, the CK have the buffer and thus should keep Rand from being too tainted. I think that the solidifying of LTT's voice is just that Rand is beginning to accept it as part of himself.
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Callandor: 2004-11-18
** These were most prevalent when Rand uses Callandor alone, remember it lacks the taint buffer. However, the CK have the buffer and thus should keep Rand from being too tainted.**
Having a buffer does not make you stop getting the taint. Rand at the Cleansing was drawing in "oceans" of the taint without any reduction.
Callandor causes a wildness in it; it makes the channeler do crazy things (Rand at the Seanchan campaign and trying to Heal death). However, you still draw in taint from it; no buffer stops that.
