nanimate object threads in the pattern?
by Memnochssoul: 2003-07-09 | Not yet rated
I was wondering if someone could help me clear up some questions I have about the pattern, the pattern as I understand it, is made up of threads, those threads being peoples lives, and the pattern makes up reality.
My question is in concern for inanimate objects, do they have threads? I know i've read something about there being an "age lace" and im wondering if that is made up of people threads, and if you add the rest of reality (namely animals and inainmate objects) it makes up the complete pattern.
I'm assuming inanimate objects do have a thread because balefire effects them, like the colums in the heart of stone that dissapered because of bel'al's balefire, but they are never mentioned in the books as part of the pattern? If they do have threads do you think they would burn away in time like a persons thread does when hit with balefire? or do they simply cease to be without the time effect?
I get confused just thinking about it, due to the whole time travel paradox but say after rand escaped from that box that the tar valon embassy stuck him, could he have balefired it and escaped 30 min earlier? Or say somebody balefires rands chair after he has left the room? Does he get a bruise from getting dropped to the floor?
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Tamyrlin: 2003-07-14
I don't think that they inanimate objects are considered threads, but animals probably are, as witnessed by the existence of wolves in T'A'R. The Pattern is responsible for threading the lives of all creatures, I would imagine, through time. The inanimate objects probably exist outside of what we know as the Pattern's weavings, but they still exist within the confines of Creation, and can be affected by balefire. I am sure others will have more to say on this subject, but I don't think Rand would have a bruise, he would remember the chair existing, but it will no longer exist.
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solomonrex: 2003-07-14
Yes, I think all the 'real world' objects are threads in the pattern. But they are clearly not the same as human threads. When a human (or animal like a dark hound) is hit with balefire, they disappear whole. If you hit any part of Rand, all of him disappears. If you hit any part of the column, only the part directly in the balefire's path will be destroyed. However, it's clear that it is also destroyed back in time, the way a human is (from Nynaeve's experience with the boat). Rand could balefire the box, but he wouldn't appear 30 feet outside. The box wall will not have existed for the last 30 minutes, but the souls (the people's thoughts, memories and therefore actions taken) will remain the same. An outside observer rewinding film of the incident would see Rand sitting in a box with a hole in it, balefiring the space, and then leaping out. Actually a good question is if you would actually see him balefire the space, or whether the instant he balefire the hole, history has been rewritten without the material in that box. Balefire only rewrites the physical 'stream' of events.
I'd say that every animal has a human-style thread (length based on life) because the shadowspawn all respond to balefire in the same way as human threads (hit any part of it and the whole thing winks out).
The pattern is not all reality per se, but the interaction of the souls, threads, etc. For example, Egwene's actions in TAR are 'woven' into the pattern even thought technically TAR is outside of the age lace. For example, Birgitte was not part of the pattern in TAR (waiting her turn to be spun out into the pattern) but she became part of it and the pattern somehow accounts for that. Of course, it is basically semantics as to what is or isn't the pattern. We know for sure the DO isn't part of the pattern, the relationship between TAR and the 'pattern' is fuzzy.
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scion2: 2003-07-14
I don't think that inanimate object exist as seperate threads, I believe they would be extensions of the thread of the person that made them, wouldn't they. So they are part of the age lace because they affect the world but only as an extension of a person's influence
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Rand-althor: 2003-07-14
I agree with Tam, inanimate objects have no thread, but are still affected by Balefire. IMO the "backburn" is an aftereffect that happens, meaning inanimate objects cease to exist, but have no threads, so they can't be burned.
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Lewin: 2003-07-14
Thats probobly it, cause if the inanimate objects don't have any threads they don't have a "memory" in the thread, thus not affecting anything of the past if the get Balefired, they just cease to exist.
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solomonrex: 2003-07-14
Sure they're burned, else how do you explain Nynaeve getting wet after her boat was balefired?
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Callandor: 2003-07-14
I dont think they have threads. They are destroyed by balefire but not erased back in time. The reson with Nynaeves boat is the oarsmen were balefired so they didnt move hte boat that last 100 paces or so so she was brought back to there and then the boat was no longer one whole piece and she sunk underwater.
If someone balefired the box Rand was in, Rand would die. Plain and simple. The balefire wouldnt stop dead once it hit the box it keeps going and would touch Rand and destroy him.
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Memnochssoul: 2003-07-14
I'm still confused, but i think i can explain the boat, the balefire hit the boat, so it sank, its jumped back 50 paces in the water becase the balefire went through the rowers, so they never rowed, so the boat didn't move.
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Anubis: 2003-07-15
doesnt explain why the boat was underwater. balefire hits objects then the object ceases to exist before the balefire hit it just like anything else. hmm, so if i balefire a sword or a knife that just killed someone... i could see why this would unravel the pattern and y both sides would stop. it would just get too confusing.
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Weird Harold: 2003-07-16
Anubis said, "doesnt explain why the boat was underwater. balefire hits objects then the object ceases to exist before the balefire hit it just like anything else"
Moggy balefired Nyneave's boat and erased a large chunk of it -- the cunk of boat might as well never existed, but it was erased for about ten minutes.
That alone would not have made the boat move back, except Moggy also erased the "motor" -- aka the two boatmen" so the boat stopped moving when they disappeared ten minutes or so before Moggy's attack and never traveled the hundred paces.
Because the boat stopped traveling forward and suddenly had a big hole in it, it started to sink instead. Ten minutes later when Moggy attacks the spot the boat and boatmen would have been, the boat HAD BEEN SINKING FOR TEN MINUTES.
That why the boat not only moved back a hundred paces (from fifty paces in front of Lan's boat to fifty behind it,) but was already mostly under water and sinking fast.
