1
Tamyrlin: 2003-09-27
I agree. I think Aram has a dark side, similar to Galad, and I think their dark sides have been exploited; I hope they both turn out to be darkfriends. Aram is a disgruntled youth who is sick of being picked on for his beliefs, beliefs he has forsaken, in hopes of greater promises, promises from the servants of the DO. We haven't really discussed this subject at length, but I hope Callandor comes along and posts some quotes in support. ;)
2
Dorindha: 2003-09-27
I do agree that there should be more to Aram, and, true, he fits your criteria for being the tinker at the DF social, and that would make sense in an RJ kind of way. However, he abandoned the Way of the Leaf in such an emotionally raw way that it seems impossible to think it was a decision with a more sinister motive: he just couldn't sit back and watch his people get slaughtered. Also, his dogged devotion to Perrin (one of the main heroes for the Light don't forget) and Faile through Perrin, sits uneasily with the idea of Aram being a darkfriend. Even if it was subterfugue, surely Perrin would have smelt something, and I feel it just wouldn't work.
Aram is a very troubled man, but I think that is all. He has lost all his rooting and direction in life, and there actually isn't anything more to say about him: he is pretty much what he appears to be.
3
Callandor: 2003-09-27
**We haven't really discussed this subject at length, but I hope Callandor comes along and posts some quotes in support. ;)**
I would if I had more searches... :)
**I am going to have to take the side of Aram being a Darkfriend. He is the only one who sems to fit the profile of the Tinker at the Darkfriend Social in TGH. Bors identifys many Darkfriends there and most of them seem to have been characters we know or meet a short while after. Aram is the most well known Tinker and it doesn't make sense to me to have a Tinker be identified at the Darkfriend Social and NOT create a separate plot line with it.**
The sex of the Tinker is never given, so it could be any Tinker at all. So, to be picky, we could name the Tinker even Leya, the Tinker who enters the Camp of the Dragon in TDR and is killed in the Trolloc attack later on, as the DF and say she lead the Trollocs there even though she was Moiraine's informant (maybe even more so since that maybe what got her in).
**And it is quite odd that Aram dropped his way of life or Way of Leaf, picked up a sword and started following Perrin around. He had to have some orders from someone higher up,(Ishamael giving orders at the Social perhaps?)**
Two (almost three) books after the orders... Possibly, but Ta'veren effects and extreme stress seem the more the likely cause. After all, the first Aiel that broke away and became Tinkers were unlikely to be Darkfriends, same with the first Aiel that tried to rescue his sister and it all messed up making the Aiel of today.
I like the idea of Aram as a DF, but why put him there? What has he done? Sure, he's getting more and more twisted and evil (which is very neat :)), but what would sound hte trumpets as him a DF?
4
Roger: 2003-09-27
No, i dont think hes a DF. He turned dark hearted but i dont think he would give his soul too the dark side. Alot of people would be harded by watching there family being killed right in front of them. He picked the sword to get vengence on the dark one. what way better to do so then too join up with Perrin who takes a major role in the war on the dark one. HE could have killed perin more then once since he started following him.
5
Rand-althor: 2003-09-28
I don't think that Aram is a DF because of one main thing. Perin says that Aram is jealous of anyone else near Perin (in CoT or PoD (been reading both of them so I can't be 100% sure) when Perin talks to Bawler in private) and the only reasons I can think of for that would be
1)Aram is insanly devoted to Perin, and therefore wants nobody but himself near him.
Or
2) Aram is a DF who does not want his plans spoiled. I am of the opinion that this would cause him to smell of worry or anget not jealousy though.
6
Rand Therin alThor: 2003-09-28
Callandor..u do make a good point on the possibility of it being Leya...but don't you think Aram would have been a better choice for the story line? I love it when authors do that...make you like a character and have then turn out to be bad. I kinda hope Siuan Sanche turns out to be black ajah...fat chance, but would be interesting to see.
7
Korell: 2003-09-29
As already stated the DF could have been any Tinker at the DF Social there are more then one band of tinkers running around out there and no we have not met every DF that was detailed at the DF Social i dont think we have out right met the Sea Folk DF. I am on the Fence on this particular issue i want Aram to just be the troubled young man but it is turly anyones guess as to weather Aram is but like Callandor said it really does not do alot for the story i think Aram is just a messed up and dark individual and there is still evil in the world other then DF and the DO there are plenty of money grubbers that only love money but are not dedicated to the DO here is a possible quote to support this thoery though it is not difniitive it is one of Egwenes dreams
Egwene's Dream [TFOH: 15, What Can Be Learned in Dreams, 214] indicates that Aram is going to get Perrin into trouble: "A man in a bright yellow coat...the Tinker. Every time he moved closer to Perrin it was if a chill of doom shot through everything."
picked that off of the WOT faq but i knew i had seen somthing relating to this
as i said though i am still on the fence with this one even though i want him to be the anti hero
8
A Wild One: 2003-09-29
**I am going to have to take the side of Aram being a Darkfriend. He is the only one who sems to fit the profile of the Tinker at the Darkfriend Social in TGH. Bors identifys many Darkfriends there and most of them seem to have been characters we know or meet a short while after. Aram is the most well known Tinker and it doesn't make sense to me to have a Tinker be identified at the Darkfriend Social and NOT create a separate plot line with it.**
Here's the the decription of the Tinker at the "Darkfriend Social in TGH":
TGH, Prologue
[QUOTE]Even a Tinker, in bright green breeches and a virulent yellow coat.[/QUOTE]
From this decription it could be any Tinker but most likely male. If you're going to use this decription for a clue then I'll point out that when Perrin first met Aram he was wearing green stripe but Raen was wearing bright green trousers. Those descriptions alone are not conclusive because Tinkers in general wear brightly colored clothes and I'll bet they have a few changes of clothing.
As for Aram's behavior, his grandparents put it like this to Perrin:
TEOTW, The Traveling People
[QUOTE]"Aram is a troubled young man," Rean added sadly. "He is a good boy, but sometimes I think he finds the Way of the Leaf a hard way. Some do, I fear. Please. My fire is yours. Please?"
Perrin sat back down slowly, still feeling awkward. "What happens to somebody who can't follow the Way?" he asked. "A Tinker, I mean."
Raen and Ila exchanged a worried look, and Raen said, "They leave us. The Lost go to live in the villages."
Ila stared in the direction her grandson had gone. "The Lost cannot be happy." She sighed, but her face was placid again when she handed out the bowls and spoons.[/QUOTE]
And as Callandor pointed out, the first Aiel that left the Way of the Leaf were not motivated to do so because they were darkfriends. In fact Aram's motivation to leave the Way of the Leaf is very similar to that of the first Aiel that left the Way of the Leaf.
I don't believe Aram is a darkfriend, he's just a young man who no longer has a family and he's trying to fit into his new life that contridicts his previous way of life. So he's a confused Tinker or as Raen put it, Aram is now one of the Lost.
9
Caramoor: 2003-09-29
Perhaps, and I have no real backup here, he was originally a DF and has decided to give it up because of the slaughter of his family.
I know vows to the DO are not easily removed, but he might be kept where he is because he can still be useful.
This may be a stretch, because I don't RJ even hints at this (except the DF Social).
10
Jiana: 2003-09-30
Thank you Wild One for reminding me of the name of the Mahdi, the Seeker, Raen. While reading these posts, I thought that it could be Aram, or possibly Raen as well. I am with Korell on the fence for this one, though, for the time being. Of course Aram is a troubled young man, as has been stated before. I don't know yet if I can see him as a DF though. Although there was the Dream that Egwene had (in PoD I think) about Perrin, with a Tinker standing behind him, and to her the Tinker seemed evil and dangerous. Now the Tinker in her dream is obviously Aram... but does her dream mean that Aram is a DF, or does it mean that Aram will cause more trouble for Perrin down the line, by heeling him like a faithful hound?
11
GRAVIJA: 2003-09-30
"Ask not what the dark one can do for aram, But what aram can do for the dark one..."
Though even the little guy can walk in the dark, RJ's typical shadow buddy is a power holder. maybe i've just got high standards, but DFs who can't smudge things up for the dragon crew are only good for trolloc cook pots.
let's be realistic, Aram is a tinker. How can he best serve the DO? Maybe there's whole lot of pot mending to be done in shayol ghul...
of course i dont mean to say there are not any useless DFs(The lady Shiaine comes to mind), but lower rung DFs seem to be organized into sects, Circles if you want to get specific...(CoS ch.15-insects). with all of the roaming and town avoiding tinkers do, where would sweet little Aram find the time to join,report to, and ultimatley kill for a DF circle?
Ah but there is the DF potluck from TGH. personally i interpreted that scene to represent the scope of the DO's fanclub, but there's no denying that some dark party goer was clothed as a tinker. but blood and ashes, any flaming goat kisser can put on some stylish duds...
12
Dorindha: 2003-09-30
Further to earlier comments, I think the descriptions of people at the DF social are just to give us a clearer picture of the fact that DFs are in every race and found everywhere: Bors (Carridin) identifies - Illianer noblewoman; Domani first blood woman (with house symbols on a bracelet); Shienaran soldier; Tinker; High Lord of Tear; High Officer in Andoran Guard;Sea Folk man; 2 Aes Sedai. He also thinks how he can read them all, from "every nation and nearly every people" - I don't knw what that last part means.
Anyway, my point is that the Tinker at the social is just a illustration, even if the others might include Ingtar and Weimeron.
13
ranman38: 2003-09-30
I would say that if he is a DF, that he probably did not start out that way. I agree he turned away from the leaf because his people were slaughtered. At that point he HATED the Way. And hate allows doors to open for other DF's to turn him to their ways. I believe if he is a DF, that he is very conflicted. Obviously. He is new to not following the Way, and would be a new DF as well, and also has a loyalty to Perrin that is obsessive. Who knows if his obsession with staying close to Perrin is hero worship or orders from those that follow the DO? I agree with whoever said he may turn from the DO, and actually become a hero of sorts. He is the classic character that turns bad due to hate, but when the moment of truth arrives, he lets his true feelings return and turns back to the good. I imagine he will die defending Perrin at some point. We will have to read and find out. ;)
14
Fade: 2003-09-30
Alright, i know that its circumstancial, but oh well. the descriptions of the Tinkers coat are almost identical between Egweens dream of Aram putting Perrin in danger ("...a man in a bright yellow coat..."), and Bors description of the Tinker at the DFS ("Even a Tinker, in bright green breeches and a vriulent yellow coat." notice the similarities between the descriptions of the coats. this is, as far as i know, the closest thing to a connection between Aram and the possibility that he was the Tinker at the DFS. just thought i'd point that out.
15
Ishamael: 2003-10-02
I know who the Tinker was at the DF Social. Of course I know, I held the social. But wouldn't you all like to know? Could be Aram, then again, it may not be. I guess you will have to.....read and find out...MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!
16
golem22: 2003-10-02
I dont believe that Aram could be a darkfriend, it has become rather obvious that perrin can smell the dark ones taint to some extent and i think he would pick up on it from aram if that was the case. That being sid it is entirely possible that aram is evil, there is plenty of evil that is unalighned to the dark one. Shadar logoth and the finns come to mind. Aram is just a disturbed young man desperatly trying to cling on to the few things he considers real, the sword and perrin.
17
Vander: 2003-10-05
since when can Perrin sniff out darkfriends? i know he can smell trollocs, neverborns, fain, and the soulless, but i dont remember any evidence of him noticing darkfriends by their smell.
18
jaellon: 2003-10-13
I don't believe Aram to be a darkfriend. His actions have been pretty straightforward since the time he first met Perrin.
He has never been a devout follower of the Way of the Leaf. What would hold him to his community? When Perrin and Egwene visited, I would suggest that only three possibilities existed: 1) Love of family, 2) fear of a major lifestyle change, and 3) orders from the Dark. At that point, there is no reason to suspect #3, whereas we can readily empathize with #1 and #2.
When Aram again meets Perrin, we get very strong reason to dismiss #3. His immediate family were all killed, as well as many of his friends. The life's path that he had been following, but was struggling with, just cost him everything he cared about. With all the pain and bitterness he was feeling, he turned to the one person who could keep his head above water: Perrin. Perrin stood up for Aram's right to defend himself. Perrin arranged for Aram to be taught the sword. Perrin was the only one who seemed to Aram to understand him. And Perrin led the desperate fight that saved Emond's Field from that same army that had destroyed Aram's life. What better role-model could there be for someone in Aram's position?
The evidence for Aram's being a darkfriend is based solely on what would make a good plot twist. The evidence for Aram's being a troubled young man is based on true-human reactions to traumatic experience.
19
Ghanima: 2003-10-24
Honestly, I'd love to see Aram turn out to be a good guy. But think about one thing. Who killed his family? I don't have the books right in front of me, but I believe it was the White Cloaks. And immediately after this, he drops the Way of the Leaf and picks up a sword. Now, I agree he may be motivated by a love of family, but that doesn't mean he isn't working against Perrin to get a chance to get back at the White Cloaks on DF orders.
And I promise to stop now before I make any Star Wars and dark side of the Force references.
20
EvilJawa101: 2003-11-11
Ok, I don't think Aram is a darkfriend. I have no real proof, except personality traits. Ok first of all, Aram seems to be extremly close to Perrin. I should also note that he seems well trained with his sword, seeing as he spent so much time with Tam. Now all that assumed, he could have just run Perrin through when he wasn't looking a long time ago. He has been withen feet of him on multiple occasions, and I doubtr anyone would expect it. Now he would, but whats death if your immortal (the DO's help included). Secondly, knowing tinkers, he seemed to have quite the tinkers because of the trollocs killing them. Now that would be kind of hypocritical. Secondly, I don't think Tinkerers come in contact with a lot of that kind of thing and even though he has some problems, I don't think they would go that far.
21
Cor Shan: 2003-11-12
Well the DO could want Perrin alive -> to make Shadow-brothers, but
Aram serves the Light, but through sunglasses, just like the whitecloaks, and Elaida. Why?
Could have killed Perrin
Helped the light at the TR campain -> DO wanted the TR to burn (as per Slayer being there)[Yes Fain was there, but the DO aint all that bright/ or Fain was just there as per chance]
22
a dragonburned fool: 2003-11-13
For Aram playing dark role you don't need him being DF. There is another way for RJ's strong characters to become evil, and RJ stessed in his books this another way not less then the way of the DF. I mean the way getting harder and harder while thinking you are devoted to the Light. This kind of evil is VERY important for RJ, this is the current temptation of Rand (and it's known that tendency is as dangerous as Rand's defeat in LB), whitecloaks, Elaida, Galad are completed victims of that temptation, it's now danger for Perrin too to go that way, and that's common way for Way-of-Leaf-supporters to become Lost from the days of breaking (doesn't Aram resemble the story of the first aiel warriors?). Morridin's shara is concerned on Rand, but I think it ressembles the DO's strategies in his battle for every soul too - if not taking the figure, force it to move in your direction. And everything we now about Aram, fits more into the harder-and-harder model, not to that of DF. The darkfriends used to be near the main characters never behave like maniacs (the only exception is Elsa Penfel, but she's compelled). And as far as Perrin is in danger of that way, it's a good literary technique to incorporate this part of Perrins soul in special character, in a companion of him who shows clearly and in extremal form, what's hidden and only a possibility in Perrin's soul. Aram is better to be used in the story as external incorporation of Perrin's iner danger, than as DF. His importance is in his affinity to one of the sides in Perrin's soul.
23
Jalt Varyd: 2003-11-13
"Helped the light at the TR campain -> DO wanted the TR to burn (as per Slayer being there)[Yes Fain was there, but the DO aint all that bright/ or Fain was just there as per chance]"
-Cor Shan
1: Padan Fain no longer serves the DO, and his actions can't be used to ascertain the DO's motives.
2: It was Fain that wanted to burn the Two Rivers. That's why he brought in the Whitecloaks. The trollocs were 'convenient.'
3: Slayer was sent to kill Fain.
However, I do agree that Aram isn't a darkfriend. His personality and actions seem more like the non-DF Whitecloak fanatics.
Oh, and Perrin can't smell darkfriends, or he would have been sure to expose "Dashiva" (Aginor).
24
Philosopher: 2004-01-20
I seem to recall once reading about a guy who set up a "Darkfriend Social", basically a gathering of fans. It was near where RJ lives and he had gotten RJ to visit, and sign a few books, answer a few questions. One of those was, "Is Aram a darkfriend?" RJ said yes, and was suprised, because he thought it was obvious. Now, it occurs to me that this guy could have been lying about a visit from RJ, but if that were the case, there are many other theories he could have "supported". In the grand plot, Aram's loyalties are more of a sideplot - so why tell a lie to support that theory than a more important one? So I'm going to take it on truth...
That being said, Aram is the only major Tinker character, and thus is most likely to have been at the DF Social in TGH. It may be possible that he has turned from the Dark, like Ingtar, but I think he is still following orders. Remember that his instructions came from a point where Ishy was still trying to turn Rand, and would likely want to turn the two ta'veren close to him as well. They aren't as important as Rand, but still pretty darn important. Good reason for Aram not to kill Perrin even if he does have the chance! As for the burning of the TR, that was started by Fain. The mass hordes of Trollocs didn't arrive until after Perrin did, and they were likely after him, probably sent by one of the Forsaken. Thus, Aram, under orders from Ishy, wants to protect Perrin because he is going to try to turn him, while this other Forsaken is trying to kill Perrin. Slayer was there for Fain, otherwise he'd have been in the Trolloc camps, or would have killed Perrin (he did have the chance to do that, recall - just pop into the room Perrin was sleeping in, and poof, no more Wolfbro.)
Why does Aram smell of jealousy? Well, if the DO can change Fain into a hound, he can do so with others as well. Since DO wasn't very strong in EotW, it was likely Ishy who actually did the work on Fain, and could have done the same for Aram at the DF social. Wouldn't have been as painful or as much work, but one moment Aram hates Perrin, and the next time they meet he is suddenly devoted to him? What better way to keep him close enough to turn him?
25
Grady: 2004-01-21
Aram is no darkfriend. I've always thought he had more to do with Perrin's axe/hammer debate. One is a man who wants to throw away his weapon and take up something like the Way of the Leaf, while the other has given up the Way and embraced his new weapon. The dreams Egwene has of Perrin running from both his axe and Aram in LOC help that out. I thought her dreams about how each step Aram takes closer to Perrin means that he's in danger the more he acts like Aram now is. It really seemed that way when they dealed with the Shaido prisoner too...to me at least. Just my opinion though, chew away.
26
Stanzi: 2004-01-21
I'm going to have go with Aram not being a Friend of the Dark. As I think a dragon burned fool said, his story is very similar to the first Aiel to lose the Way. He might be evil. but not in the sense where he actually is part of the Great Lord's syndicate or even prays in his heart to the Great Lord. And other than the Friend's social, and I guess Aram's weird thing with the Prophet, I've seen no evidence to suggest that he's in fact a Friend of Mine. Twisted, yes. Menacing, perhaps.
27
Traveller: 2005-07-19
I really don't want Aram to be a Darkfriend as he has grown on me, but I think it makes sense to pooint to him. However i do not get the argument about how he has changed- before, I though that he turned DF in Emonds Field when all those Tinkers died, but then that doesn't make sense as he (if he is DF) was at the meeting with "Bors".
This leads me to think maybe he isn't, but there don't seem to be any other Tinkers that are worth notice.
28
JakOShadows: 2005-07-20
It could be, but Perrin does mention in tSR that it is odd he runs into the same band twice. He chalks it up to ta'veren but maybe it is more than that. If Aram were acting as a spy, then it would explain that. I just don't know how he would control where they travel. But then after trollocs kill his sister, it could be possible he turned against the DO. It was odd that he turned to violence and conflict in my mind though, so that seems like an indicator. I really hope not though, because that would be sad.
