1
Tamyrlin: 2004-03-07
This is an original discussion, so let's discuss it. I was under the impression that closing the door of the stasis box, sets off a reaction built into its advanced mechanics, that in the process creates a weave that stops time for everything inside of the box. But now I see where this argument gets hung up. How can any weave affect a gholam in this manner? Would a weave that activated on the outside of the box, with a purpose of stopping time within, apply to the gholam? Jordan suggests that it works, that it stops time for the gholam, but can a weave of one power be applied to a gholam in this manner...if the weaves were not directly touching the gholam, merely preserving the insides in a stasis like condition, why couldn't the gholam break out of the box? Jordan says the gholam ages, and if the weave wasn't being applied to the gholam, it would have died after three thousand years...don't ya think? Interesting idea.
2
Dorindha: 2004-03-07
We've vaguely discussed this elsewhere - maybe under "gholems"?
I think that once a stasis box is created, there is no direct channelling involved, and it is the direct channelling that the gholem can negate: therefore, even if weaves are used to seal it or whatever, there is nothing directly around the gholem for it to negate.
My other idea is that it is a bit paradoxical - once the gholem is in no time passes, if no time passes, the gholem is never actually affected by the channelling so can't stop it, so only when it is affected by an outside force can the gholem be free.
3
jackdaw fool: 2004-03-07
I always thought that that box was outside the pattern - it was part of it while opens time could enter, but when closed it was totally cut off, hence no time as the thread isnt being weaved.(Also seem to remember something like this near SH, some kind of room where there is no time)
4
Unicorn: 2004-03-07
I don't think the weave touches the gholam, or that the gholam could get close to unraveling the weave. I am' too tired to find the quote but I am sure most will remember anyway, if not I will be happy to find the quote some other day, but here it goes. Mat's medallion does much the same thing as the gholam inert defense, but as, I think, Elayne discovers if the flow is directed against something else besides mat, it does not unravel. My point is that the weave ethat creates the stasis condition is directed at the box not the contents. so I'm with the ending argument
5
Elder Haman: 2004-03-07
Interesting- this suggests that a channeler is not defenseless to a Gholem after all. Much as Mat's medallion did not protect him from mud slinging...
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Arbryan: 2004-03-08
I think the difference is that Mat can be hurt by something indirect where as a gholam is much more robust. The gholam would be like indirectly attacking Mat's medallion (vs. Mat himself). We know that the type of weave doesn't matter so it can't be intent related.
If they are similar to Mat's medallion then we can assume that they cannot enter a passive state that does not affect the weaves. I'd bet that the box concept with flows around it is the most logical. Perhaps not necessarily a box, but perhaps a bag or anything that could be between the gholam and the weave.
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Khaos: 2004-03-08
We know very little about stasis boxes except that they put things in stasis. My first thoughts though is that evryone is taking thing too literally and that the gholam has been placed inside a box made from the power. I imagine stasis boxes as a device that is used to open a vacuole similar to the kind where Moghedien was kept by Shaidar Haran. The vacuole is outside of the pattern and unaffected by time unless opened. So you open it up with the stasis box put in whatever you want and then close it. To the occupants time will not exist until once again someone opens that vacuole with the stasis box. Once the opening is made the power is not used.
8
charliec: 2004-03-08
I think this goes hand in hand with the question 'would a gholam be able to go through a gateway?' I feel the answer which has been reached on other threads is yes the gholam could, the distortion in space/time is not the same as the weave used to create it... were the Gholam to touch the weave/edge it would collapse it, but as long as it is contained by the distortion all is well.
Try blowing bubbles... gateway/stasis box/vacuole are a little like the bubble, the one power is then the ring you use to create the bubble!
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: 2004-03-08
I Think theoretically speaking my idea takes care of most of the odvious stuff however i had forgotten about the vacoule and opening a doorway to somplace outside of the patern certainly would be a way to acomplish the affects of a stasis box and an effective on though my only argument would be if this were done what would the item in the stasis box be concealed in? a box created outside of the pattern? i think that would mean it has similar roots as my idea with the exception that rather then the power keeping the flow of time from the box the box is simply outside of the flow of time
my idea is more based on the idea of a stasis field rather then the box itself having the ability to slow the affects of time within a bubble which contains the box and gholam so because of time not flowing inside the bubble the gholam would not be able to break out of the box
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Anubis: 2004-03-08
haran.... the thing is, if a channeler or a very large man picked up a large rock or somthing and chucked it at mat and hit him upside the head it would hurt/kill him. do this to a gholam and what happens? not much. i doubt lightning hurts them either. Possibly lowering the temperature around the gholam and freezing it? i dont know what its temp limits are....
11
Daekyras: 2004-03-09
Sammael found a Stasis box. It contained Angreal and Sa'angreal or something like that. Why would they need to be kept out of time? How a Stasis box works and whether or not it does so on a gholam is not really a question. IT DID WORK ON THE GHOLAM! It doesn't matter how. What matters is WHY the gholam was placed in it and Why it didn't kill Sammael when he opened it. How do they control a beast that doesn't respond to the one power? And it can't be the true power cause Moridin has the only access to it as far as I know.
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Korell: 2004-03-09
Questioning the relavence is one thing but this theory is all that is really relevant in this particular discussion because the question i posed was how it works. as for why would you? Lets see i am a Forsaken and we are losing i know that a Gholam is one of my best assets as far as a good assasin is concerned i dont know what exactly will happen so i better put him in safe keeping how about a stasis box
the gholam could have had standing orders to obey all of the forsaken so that no matter which opened it they would be able to control it. also Mordin is not the only one who has access to the TP he is the only one who has unlimited access to the TP and the others are not insane enough to use it all the time like he does anyway. back to the relevence of why does it matter. That like asking why does it matter how RJ's detailed system of magic works. when plenty of other writers have succeded without actually detailing their systems. He wanted to make it as realistic as possible with rules to abide by so it would seem more belivable in the WOT world. the relevence is that he wanted to detail everything out which means most likly he has everything worked out somwhere that says how things work for instance i am sure somwhere he has worked out how "HIS" stasis box works. as opposed to another writers idea of how it works. I want to know how it works so i can say yes i was right or ohhh thats intersting but i theorize until i know the answer. You dont as a fish how it swims or a bird how it flys but you study it to figure out how it works from your own point of view
13
Blacksmith: 2004-03-09
The BWB states that anything done with the power could be made without the power. So, why couldn't the stasis box be an actual mechanical device that uses some property of physics that we have yet to discover in "our" age? And, perhaps stasis boxes work on a ratio of 1 sec in the box is equivalent to every 1000 years that pass in the real world.
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Davian93: 2004-03-10
****Sammael found a Stasis box. It contained Angreal and Sa'angreal or something like that.****
Actually it didnt contain angreal or sa'angreal, that was why he was so desperately searching for them in Ebou Dar through the Black sisters. The box had an air exchanger, a famous painting, a Gholam, and other less important items.
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charliec: 2004-03-10
Good redirection Daekyras!
although point of info... at the time when Samael found the Stasis box I don't think access to the TP had yet been restricted to Moridin (I may be wrong, but I'm not sure we were even properly introduced to the TP until after the Gholam first appeared)
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Daekyras: 2004-03-11
Sorry Korell, I didn't mean to offend. As chaerlic said, I was just trying to re-direct.
We know that the stasis Box worked on the Gholam. I was just wondering why he was put IN a stasis box with what I thought were Important things but turned out to be:
"Actually it didnt contain angreal or sa'angreal, that was why he was so desperately searching for them in Ebou Dar through the Black sisters. The box had an air exchanger, a famous painting, a Gholam, and other less important items."
What has a gholam to do with all of those? Why would time effect those items?
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Davian93: 2004-03-11
****What has a gholam to do with all of those? Why would time effect those items? *****
Nothing, really. I was just listing what was in the stasis box so everyone would have the info available. Mainly boredom on my part.
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charliec: 2004-03-11
Davian, just posted a theory in response to you, but it'll probably take a while to come through...
I think that the items in the stasis box are very interesting, whoever filled it probably couldn't channel (as there were no power related items in it) yet they got the Gholam in there... what does this say about the way Gholam are controlled? Does this suggest that stasis boxes could be operated without the power?
Theory en-route...
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Daekyras: 2004-03-12
Is the way I write kind of inflammatory? Sorry davian, I wasn't asking you to specifically defend what you said, I was saying that I don't see much of a connection between a painting and a Gholam.
Why would Paintings be stored the same way as a construct assasin?
Why would an Air purifier need to be stored out of time?
20
solomonrex: 2004-03-12
The stasis box is most likely a portable bubble of reality where time doesn't move. It was probably formed with OP, but does not require the OP like the ways to exist, it's just a function of the pattern. It could be mechnical in nature, but NOTHING mechanical in nature from the AoL has survived OUTSIDE of the stasis boxes.
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Davian93: 2004-03-12
****Why would Paintings be stored the same way as a construct assasin?
Why would an Air purifier need to be stored out of time? ****
First off, no your style isnt that imflammatory.
As for storing them with a Gholam. My opinion is that whoever put the items in there wasnt thinking on storing for the length of time that it turned out to be. It is puzzling why they would have a Gholam with the air exchanger, painting, board game(with human pieces). Obviously the owner of the stasis box was a DF and had control over a gholam. So, like you said the DF had control over the gholam to get him into the box. As for the items needing to be stored out of time. It think that the stasis box was the only "safe" place to store them. They are probably quite secure and people would want to save what they could at the time. The air exchanger was probably just some extra junk they put in there.
22
silverwolf: 2004-03-14
I think the stasis box was created using information gained by studying vacuoles in the same way the ways were created after studying various portal stone worlds, not that stasis boxes are vacuoles. In book 7, Moghedien mentioned that when a vacuole breaks off from the pattern, there is no warning and all withing the vacuole is lost for good. This wouldn't be a highly effective method of storage for 3000+ years.
Also, as long as the weave doesn't touch the gholam when it's activated, it doesn't matter if the gholam could reach out and touch it. If no time passes within the weave, the gholam would be completely unable to move.
Finally, the stasis box is likely a necessary component to the weave--some sort of ter'angreal. It also fits in with the definition--an object that uses or is connected with the power.
