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at a channler?
by Jay al Ender: 2004-04-29 | 1 out of 10 (3 votes)
Previous Categories: Miscellaneous
But my most startling revelation was when in The Dragon Reborn' when in chapter 20 the Amyrlin is checking on Mat. Goose bumps cover his skin.
And Jordan has said that male channlers get goose bumps whenever the females are channeling or embracing the source. From here: http://www.tor.com/jordan/questions.html if you need more. So.... I'm taking this to mean Mat can channel. Might not of been one of those born with the spark, but maybe one who can learn how to channel. What do you think?
Comments
Tamyrlin: 2004-07-15
(Frenzy for Tamyrlin)
I very seriously vehemently strongly absolutely doubt it, Jay. As amusing as it would be to have the one character who's bent over backwards to avoid all channelers actually BE a channeler, it serves no purpose.
Besides, if every man who felt the effects of a chill breeze could channel, the Reds would be too busy to plot and scheme the way they do.
brother of Battles: 2004-07-15
No, Mat can't be a channeler. He just simply got the chills when he realized the one power was being used against him.
slowrunnr17: 2004-07-15
I agree with jay. Not that he is a chaneler, but he could be a chaneler. not only because of the goosebumps. actually not because of the goose bumps because it was siuone, but because in New Spring it says that the first signs that a man is able to channel is he begins to be very lucky which is why the BA tried to kill Lan
Jiana: 2004-07-15
Frenzy is dead-on, it would be a great ironic twist if Mat were a channeler, but that's all it would be. Also, take into consideration: Only 3% of the population is known to channel or to have the ability, due to the Reds' diligent work over the centuries. Considering that the list of characters who can channel outweighs the list of characters who can't, we can pretty much determine that most of that 3% is already known to us.
****POSSIBLE SPOILER****
Other than the possibility of Tuon, I don't forsee any other surprise revelations of abilities in the One Power.
Callandor: 2004-07-16
No way. One simple reason:
Mat could touch the a'dam without a stab of pain.
**TITLE: Fires of Heaven
CHAPTER: 32 - A Short Spear
Rand did not care very much about them, but he did not want to leave the damane behind. At the least he could give them a chance to escape. They might be staring at him as they would a wild animal with bared fangs, but they had not chosen to be prisoners, treated little better than domestic animals themselves. *He put a hand to the collar of the nearest, and felt a jolt that nearly numbed his arm; for an instant the Void shifted, and saidin raged through him like the snowstorm a thousandfold.* The damane's short yellow hair flailed as she convulsed at his touch, screaming, and the sul'dam connected to her gasped, face going white. Both would have fallen if not held by bonds of Air.**
If Mat was a channeler, he couldn't have set the Windfinders free in WH.
**TITLE: Winter's Heart
CHAPTER: 31 - What the Aelfinn Said
"What would you do if I took that collar off your neck?" Lifting his hand, he held his breath. "I would free my sisters, if it pleases the Light that should happen." The Sea Folk accents in the darkness made him breathe again. "The Light be willing, we would cross the harbor, somehow, to where our people are held, and free as many as we were able." The unseen woman's voice remained low, but grew fiercer by the word. "The Light be willing, we would take back our ships, and fight our way to sea. Now! If this is a trick, punish me for it and be done, or kill me for it. I was on the brink of yielding, of giving up myself, and the shame of that will burn me forever, but you have reminded me who I am, and now I will never yield. Do you hear me? Never!"
"I'm just a gambler," he told her. Her hand guided his to the segmented collar around her neck, and it came open for him with a metallic snick. She drew a very long breath.
He only had to put her fingers in the proper places and show her the trick once before she got it, but he made her close and open the collar three times before he was satisfied. If he was going to do this, he might as well make sure it was done right. "Three hours, as near as you can," he reminded her.**
No jolt. Mat is not a channeler.
waterbucket: 2004-07-16
Yeah...I'm going to have to go with Tam on this one. Anyone can get goosebumps when someone they're afraid or intimidated by touches them. It's not a definite or even remote sign of a male channeller.
Davian93: 2004-07-16
****No, Mat can't be a channeler. He just simply got the chills when he realized the one power was being used against him. ****
Its not beyond the realm of possibility that Mat can learn to channel. Afterall, his sister has the channeling gene and can learn. But, no I dont think Mat can channel or will learn to channel, or even if he could learn to channel, would be willing to learn to channel.
DragonsShield: 2004-07-16
he could be a channeler though. in the books it never says what will happen if a man who is able to be taught to channel touches an a'dam. It just says that they feel a jolt if they have channeled or are able to channel. I'm just saying it would be a possibility for Mat to be a channeler.
Anubis: 2004-07-16
Callandor, I know im at least partially correct here but not sure if fully so here goes.
Unsure: Any man touching the collar causes pain and badness.
I think that when the Aes Sedai had the collar on when they were testing it her warder tried to remove it because she freaked out and it caused pain but it could just be someone who is not supposed to removing the collar.
Sure: Matts medalion does somthing to the A'dan. Matt shows the windfinders how to remove the collar. Then later they take the collars off themselves and revolt. Well, at least one of them does and the one that must have is the one matt demonstrated to. But dammae cant remove the collars on their own... so i blame the medalion and say that it breaks the link between the collar and the bracelet.
Callandor: 2004-07-16
**in the books it never says what will happen if a man who is able to be taught to channel touches an a'dam.**
Really?
**TITLE: Great Hunt
CHAPTER: 40 - Damane
"And sometimes," the blue-eyed sul'dam put in harshly, "you and he would both die screaming." The woman had sharp features and a tight, thin-lipped mouth, and Egwene realized that anger was apparently her permanent expression. "From time to time the Empress plays with lords by linking them to a damane. It makes the lords sweat and entertains the Court of the Nine Moons. The lord never knows until it is done whether he will live or die, and neither does the damane." Her laugh was vicious.
"Only the Empress can afford to waste damane in such a way, Alwhin," Renna snapped, "and I do not mean to train this damane only to have her thrown away."**
Then why do some nobles, get killed when they are linked with an a'dam to damane? In Seanchan, male channelers are hunted down and killed on the spot. But learners aren't found, just like in Randland.
There's no need for Mat to be a channeler, no point to it, and it doesn't fit circumstances.
fistandantilus: 2004-07-17
This is my first reply, so bear with me. Upon re-reading "The Crossroads of Twilight" I came upon on of the infamous offhand comments that RJ throws in that may support this theory.
Title: Crossroads of Twilight
Chapter: A Fan of Colors
Page: 130
"Only a man with porridge for brains would believe he got warnings from hearing dice no one could see. *Or maybe a man marked by the power. Or by the Dark One. He was not anxious to have any of those things suspected about him. ... No, this was a not secret he cared to reveal.*
Now this passage may mean nothing, or that he was only touched by the power, not a channeller. But I thought it was worth mentioning.
charliec: 2004-07-18
For the a'dam question: I was thinking about that Seanchan quote as well... presumably the men who die screaming like this are those who could learn to channel, which is what's being suggested about Mat, but they don't get a jolt from touching the collar, they just die if the connection is made. So Mat could be able to learn... though I doubt it.
WinespringBrother: 2004-07-18
A related point was brought up on a post on the main board, by SBX, who pondered whether Mat already gave up half the light of the world. What if he gave up the use of saidin by donning the foxhead medallion? Interesting if farfetched...
Zaela Sedai: 2004-07-19
The Foxhead doesn't do anything against saidin though. Unless you mean to say that channeling was the price to pay for the foxhead, I think Mat would call that a fair price, don't you?
brother of Battles: 2004-07-19
Mat's Foxhead medallian does do something to Saidin though. Remember in, LoC I think, when Mat showed up at Salidar to take Egwene to Rand. He danced with Halima and afterwards she channeled saidin at him and the foxhead went cold against his chest. He turned around expecting an Aes Sadai and all he saw was Halima looking at him wide eyed. I don't have the exact quote because I am at work right now so if anyone wants to suply the quote it would help.
Callandor: 2004-07-20
**The Foxhead doesn't do anything against saidin though.**
It disipates saidin weaves, and if he wears it, WSB was implying that it might not allow him to channel (if I understand him correctly ;)). It is very interesting that we've never seen a channeler wear the medallion.
Zader: 2004-07-21
Re Male Channeller removing a'dam. ACOS ch 25 ...The woman channelled to make a light and Moghedien saw only the light. It had to be Saidin... The woman named herself Aran'gar and called Moghedien by name, she gave summons to the Pit of Doom and removed the a'dam necklace, flinching at pain no woman should have felt.
jclz7: 2004-07-23
I don't think mat can channel either but I thought I might add a response to no one wearing the medallion I think you are right, however, in PoD, Cadsuane is sitting in the sun palace when one of the sisters apprenticed to the wise ones walks in and is holding on to saidar. RJ says how Cadsuane is not worried or going to reach for saidar since one of her medallions/earrings in her hair is cool. Maybe its not the same as mats medallion but if it is then a channeler can wear the foxhead and still channel.
minalth: 2004-07-25
there is no reason why Mat could not be a channeler and just have no great power, much like morgase does not. This would be no great advantage for him, but would have disadvantages which the ability to chanel comes with, such as the oath rods and the 13 myrdrall, 13 dreadlords thing.
Mat is a bit invincible at the moment, he is one hell of a fighter and is immune to the power, its about time he has some special weaknesses like all characters need to be good...
Callandor: 2004-07-26
**Maybe its not the same as mats medallion but if it is then a channeler can wear the foxhead and still channel.**
Doesn't seem that Cadsuane's hair piece does the same thing as Mat's medallion.
**TITLE: Path of Daggers
CHAPTER: 12 - New Alliances
Alanna stiffened. The light of saidar suddenly shone around her. "If you wish to be truly foolish." Cadsuane smiled, a cold smile. She made no move to embrace the Source herself. One of her dangling hair ornaments, intertwined golden crescents, was cool on her temple. "You keep a whole hide at present, but my sufferance is not infinite. In fact, it dangles by a thread."**
It most likely just detects saidar, and probably saidin since a lot of her other ter'angreal do that, instead of working like Mat's.
Callandor: 2004-07-26
**there is no reason why Mat could not be a channeler and just have no great power, much like morgase does not. This would be no great advantage for him, but would have disadvantages which the ability to chanel comes with, such as the oath rods and the 13 myrdrall, 13 dreadlords thing.
Mat is a bit invincible at the moment, he is one hell of a fighter and is immune to the power, its about time he has some special weaknesses like all characters need to be good...**
If Mat could channel at all, he could not have opperated the a'dam without feeling a jolt like Rand did.
Mat invincible?! Heckkkkk no. Mat can't be effected by direct effects. That is not invincible. Not by a long shot. Pick up a boulder and throw it at him, and he's dead unless he dodges it. Mat has enough weaknesses as it is, and making him a channeler, at all let alone a pathetically weak one, is just dumb. There's no reason for it at all.
Illuminati: 2004-07-27
What I believe they are trying to say, Callandor is that the medallion might counteract the effect of a male channeler touching the adam. It would be a logical assumption since I'd atleast think that the reaction is cause somehow by OP and the medallion negates all OP targeted directly at Mat (which this would be).
I think this is a fun idea and I don't really see why not. I don't really see why either but Mat does seem to have a twisted irony following him, this would just be the finishing touch. It could also create some interesting twists later considering Mat's connection to the Seanchan, that the Seanchan hold the male adam and that Rand is bound to end up there sooner or later to face that adam.
charliec: 2004-07-27
**Mat is a bit invincible at the moment**
He's already been killed by lightning, bust up by a wall falling on him, and beat about by the gholam... invincible? nah...
dragonsceptor: 2004-07-28
I don't really have anything to add other than as others have said, I don't see the point of Mat being a channeller. I think it is highly unlikely that he is for all the reasons stated above.
Callandor: 2004-07-28
**I think this is a fun idea and I don't really see why not.**
Because it's a jolt of saidin to the channeler, not an actual weave that causes the pain.
It's comparable to wearing a bullet-proof vest. The vest is the medallion. A weave is a bullet being shot at the person. Vest stops the direct bullet, but if you were to electricute the person in the vest, it won't do crap.
Poole: 2004-08-06
He also felt goosebumps when Lanfear tried to channel at him. I think that he has the ability to learn and that this will be a great twist in his storyline.
Daekyras: 2004-08-06
I agree with poole. I think Mat can learn to channel. I don't have the books on me but I remember, I think, him getting goosebumps when a woman was channelling at least one other time. Maybe when his medallion was being examined.
doomtothesheep14: 2004-08-08
dont you think if mat could channel one of the other male channelers would feel something in him?
Dorindha: 2004-08-10
OK - several bits of reply -
When the Amyrlin (and Lanfear) are channelling at him, he get goosebumps because they are directly affecting him with the power - it's mentioned several times how delving (for illness)feels like a ripple of coldness down the body.
As for the a'dam question - I think a big part of it is that if a damane thinks of escaping, she gets ill - if she does it very quickly, she may be able to overcome this - Egwene fiddled for ages trying to work out how to open it, with no terrible effect.
I seriously doubt MAt can channel, mostly for the reasons given above. I also think Cadsuane's ter'angreal are largely the same in substance as Mat's, it's jsut that Mat's is for both halves of the power.
Lauric: 2004-08-10
Male Channelers can't automatically feel strength in saidin in someone, they must first channel and wait for, i believe Taim called it a resonance, or that person themselves must be channeling. (Taim has to hold saidin for Rand to judge how strong he is) So, hypothetically, if Mat could channel, noone has thought to test him for saidin, yet.
Mat channeling...interesting thought, but I severely doubt it. Even if he could learn he never would.
Satin alEllien Moonsong: 2004-08-18
Why wouldn't mat want to channel? i know that he has said that he wants ntohing to do with the power but someone might say they want nothing to do with power and yet would jump at the chance to be king.
Heron: 2004-09-29
Callandor: **Because it's a jolt of saidin to the channeler, not an actual weave that causes the pain. ** Do you recall when Mat used the medallion to injure the gholam? It clearly isn't a creature directly of the One Power, although it was "made" (probably using the OP) but it still hurt it. The medallion isn't just anti-weave. It also only protects Mat when it is touching his skin. Now, that being said, I still cannot think that Mat can channel, or even learn. He has, and I hesitate to put it this way, but everything else I can think of has already been said, too much already involved with him. One other thing, a little off topic: I wonder whether a severed channeler can still be turned against their will? What about a burnt-out one?
Callandor: 2004-09-30
**Callandor: **Because it's a jolt of saidin to the channeler, not an actual weave that causes the pain. ** Do you recall when Mat used the medallion to injure the gholam? It clearly isn't a creature directly of the One Power, although it was "made" (probably using the OP) but it still hurt it. The medallion isn't just anti-weave. It also only protects Mat when it is touching his skin.**
Ok, and what has that to do with my statement? Here:
1. Hypothesis: Mat is a channeler.
a. Fact: A male channeler touching the a'dam produces a jolt to the channeler. This is not a weave or anything, it is a jolt of saidin. Proven by Rand al'Thor, and Aran'gar
b. Fact: Mat Cauthon has indeed held, on several occasions, an a'dam.
c. Fact: No description of a jolt is EVER said by Mat, being caused by touching the a'dam.
d. Since male channelers (in general, not just Rand), feel this pain from touching the a'dam, and Mat did not, what is the obvious beyond "water is wet" conclusion?
e. Mat cannot channel.
And if people say he can learn to channel, that is totally unbasis, since most likely they will use that he felt "coldness/tingling" from Lanfear's visit. Learners do not experience this. Using Rand as proof, again, does not work. Rand is a wilder, not a learner.
damane: 2005-01-07
Mat can't channel. Face it.
a. He held an a'dam for more than one straight hour (when he was trying to find out how to open it.) He opened an a'dam twice.
b. Morgase is the lowest of the low when it comes to channeling, with near to no ability in her. Yet she was still sensed by another female channeler (sometime when she was in Faile's service, don't know exactly when.) So it stands to reason that if Mat had as much potential as she does - next to nothing - he still should have felt something. The medallion could have stopped maybe 99% of the jolt (to be generous) but Mat still should have felt something.
c. The One Power and True Source is always described as always being there. The medallion works like a miniature stedding that extends to anyone who touches it. When Elayne was holding it, she should have been able to feel even the slightest notion of the Power being shielded from her.
d. Cadsuane's ter'angreal can NOT stop channeling, they can only detect it (saidin as well as saidar, by the way.) When Rand was cleansing the taint, she showed enough fear of the Forsaken killing her to prove that she isn't protected like Mat is.
e. When Elayne and Egwene were trying to teach Rand to channel, there was a lengthy discussion on the goosebumps. Rand said, several times, that he thougth the reason he got them was because the idea of somebody channeling at him was unnerving. Mat is downright terrified of the One Power ("I remember when you nearly soiled yourself whenever an Aes Sedai came near you..." - Thom) so OBVIOUSLY he'll get a little freaked at the idea. Also, every time he recieved the goosebumps, he was either AWARE someone was channeling at him, or he THOUGHT they were.
f. It does absolutely nothing to further the story, only makes it worse, because then we'll have to deal with Mat dealing with it, and knowing Jordan it'll take another ten books, like it did Rand and Perrin to accept who they were. It's a wild twist, but a downright ASININE one compared to the twists that we're being teased with for the next two-three books.
g. The whole point of Mat is that he's a general, a "son of battles." He's the one with the weapons, and how many times has a woman just loooooved that about him? With the Power, Mat won't need the weapons, and he won't need all the battle tactics. The greatest pride in his army is how fast they can march. What good is that when he can weave up a gateway? All his channeling would do is kill his character.
Dapsin: 2006-02-17
I think it is possible. It is plausible to think he may be a *wilder* and that it somehow has something to do with his luck. Thus, with that in mind, his being a channeler *does* have some merit. Though, the a'dam thing is contradictory, it is possible that if he IS a channeler AND a wilder at that, then maybe, if he blocked himself like Nyneave, then that block prevents him from feeling anything. Also seeing as when Rand touched it, saidin filled him, if Mat is a wilder then he is blocked from it and cannot have it fill him... unless rand did that on instinct and it had nothing to do with the a'dam, but I can't remember all that well (must reread). Some might think that having him be a channeler and all that alongside Rand and the multitude of characters who are channelers is redundant... and in a way they are right, but when you think about it, there are no male wilders (that I can think of), Mat does not have to learn to channel, and it is a possible explanation for his Luck and that he has the Talent in the index to alter ta'veren chance. If he is, I think that it's purpose would be simply to explain the luckiness and no further, so technically he isn't going to channel at all... plus I love the irony of it.
P.S.: if mat has been unconsciously using a talent of the One Power (like Nyneave and Healing), and people think that Rand would notice it if he was, then I give you this: Siuon can see ta'veren, which is a talent, but no one commented on it when se was looking at Rand in tGH, meaning she may not be weaving any flows or embracing saidar, Egwene is a dreamer, which is a talent, yet she does not embrace saidar to do it. For these, talents, thought they may be connected to the One Power the person with the talent does not need to embrace it...
Traveller: 2006-02-18
There is no possible way Mat can channel (I won't repeat again every single damning statement said before now why he can't be), but there can be a different reason for the tingling he feels when Aes Sedai channel other than uneasiness- I think it may have something to do with Ta'verenness. Loads of you are going to disagree with me now, because what comes next is all personal opinion:
I think that when people channel, they lift themselves somehow from the surface of the pattern. This distancing, creates the slowing affect, because as they distance themselves, the less the wheel affects them. The more often they channel, the more often they distnce themselves from the pattern, and the less ageing occurrs. I also believe that the more powerful they are, the further from the pattern they go. (this is all based on my perception of how they reach for the source, and I know lots of people won't agree, but you deserve to know how mad I am)
This is where Mat's ta'verenness comes in:
As ta'veren, he affects the threads around him. I believe that ta'veren can notice when aes sedai distance themselves from the pattern, and it makes them shiver. We HAVE seen instances where mat shivers at moments where channelling is going on near him and he doesn't know, or when he shivers BEFORE he realises that channeling is going on (I do apologise for not having specific quotes with me).
I think that this idea is also backed up by:
a) Min's viewings of Aes sedai going fuzzy when they channel (she has a talent of seeing their threads/parts of the pattern, but she can no longer see them when they are lifted from the pattern
b) Egwene channeling when she doesn't want to be affected by Rand's ta'veren effects (sorry again for not having the quotes). By distancing herself from the pattern, his ta'verenness cannot affct her thread.
So, no mat cannot channel, but he doesn't shiver out of psychological reasons- he CAN sense when women channel, even without his medallion.
Ishamael666: 2006-02-18
MAT CANNOT CHANNEL.
He touched the a'dam without ill effects. Not to mention, Rand would know if Mat was channeling. And there's no reason for him to, in the plot.
Lord of the Dawn: 2006-02-19
*** I think it is possible. It is plausible to think he may be a *wilder* and that it somehow has something to do with his luck.***
How would that have to do with his luck? I'm not sure, but do male channelers even have blocks?
***Though, the a'dam thing is contradictory, it is possible that if he IS a channeler AND a wilder at that, then maybe, if he blocked himself like Nyneave, then that block prevents him from feeling anything.***
Another point against Mat that shows he is not a channeler. If any male channeler touches an a'dam, it causes great pain for them and for the damane. Also, if he did have a block and it is possible for a man to have a block, we have not seen any evidence. The whole point of a block is to protect yourself, unconsciously from channeling, but also enabling yourself to channel at a certain time. For Nynaeve, it is anger. Mat would have shown some reaction if he suddenly started channeling. If he had a block, he would have found out what enables him to channel by now.
Callandor: 2006-02-19
** Thus, with that in mind, his being a channeler *does* have some merit. Though, the a'dam thing is contradictory, it is possible that if he IS a channeler AND a wilder at that, then maybe, if he blocked himself like Nyneave, then that block prevents him from feeling anything.**
Wilders having blocks still mean they're channelers. Rand didn't channel into the a'dam and recieve the jolt of pain -- he simply touched it. It just happened as a reaction to touching a male channeler. Mat has handled many a'dam, with no comment on it.
**Also seeing as when Rand touched it, saidin filled him, if Mat is a wilder then he is blocked from it and cannot have it fill him... unless rand did that on instinct and it had nothing to do with the a'dam, but I can't remember all that well (must reread).**
He recieved a jolt of saidin; it didn't fill him.
And a block simply means you have trouble actively channeling; not that you can't channel at all.
**Some might think that having him be a channeler and all that alongside Rand and the multitude of characters who are channelers is redundant... and in a way they are right, but when you think about it, there are no male wilders (that I can think of), Mat does not have to learn to channel, and it is a possible explanation for his Luck and that he has the Talent in the index to alter ta'veren chance.**
Narishma is a wilder. Taim is a wilder. Logain is a wilder (as far as we know). Rand is a wilder. There's quite a few male wilders; just a lot more learners of course.
**Siuon can see ta'veren, which is a talent, but no one commented on it when se was looking at Rand in tGH, meaning she may not be weaving any flows or embracing saidar, Egwene is a dreamer, which is a talent, yet she does not embrace saidar to do it. For these, talents, thought they may be connected to the One Power the person with the talent does not need to embrace it...**
Siuan's Talent seems related to channelers (since the only other known example is Nicola, also a channeler); Egwene being a Dreamer is not related to the One Power in anyway.
**How would that have to do with his luck? I'm not sure, but do male channelers even have blocks?**
In New Spring it's referenced that male channelers sometimes have spots of increased luck.
Also, Fedwin Morr has a block (Taim calls it a Bar, but it's the same thing), since he believes he can't effect anything at a distance, so his weaves begin to weaken after 50 paces. If he can have one, wilders can as well.