1
Tamyrlin: 2003-02-18
Okay, this was my original thought. She can just use T'A'R to free herself and travel out of there. Or that she wanted to be caught so she could do some investigating. But the important thing to note is that she is drugged, and when drugged, she cannot enter T'A'R (similar to the Moggy moment where Nynaeve gives her Forkroot in T'A'R.) The drug seems to prevent the type of sleep necessary to enter T'A'R, even for a dreamer...at least that was my belief, but I don't have time to go look for a quote.
2
Callandor: 2003-02-18
When Nynaeve and Elayne are talking to the woman who uses Forkroot for the first time they fall asleep and dont have any dreams. So I'm willing to bet that it gives you dreamless sleep so no TAR.
3
Anubis: 2003-02-18
Bro, egwene needed to make a gateway to enter the world of the dreams in the flesh. So that is out of the question anyways.
4
silverwolf: 2003-02-22
The reason Moggy couldn't channel when Nynaeve gave her the forkroot could be because she was in too deep a sleep--Egwene may be able to enter TAR even with the forkroot keeping her under. As far as we know, forkroot (other than putting you to sleep) only interferes with channeling; dreaming has nothing to do with the OP. We know that a person can enter TAR even when in a drug-induced sleep (see TSR when Perrin drinks Ila's powder), so it stands to reason that Egwene will still be able to enter TAR. I don't think that this will help her to escape, but she could make contact with Siuan and the Hall to give them orders concerning the siege.
5
jaellon: 2003-02-26
I personally think Egwene's plans went something like this:
All along, she had planned to be the one in the boat. However, knowing that the BA would surely try to disrupt the mission, she used Bode as a decoy for as long as possible. Not a great position for Bode to be in, but some risk had to be taken.
The outcome of the mission was always uncertain, but three possibilities (and their consequences) were certain: 1) She would succeed without a problem, greatly facilitating the siege. 2) She would be captured, but even if constantly shielded, she could still direct the efforts of the SAS, and even provide inside information to them. 3) She would be killed or driven away without completing the mission.
Even though Egwene may have foreseen the use of forkroot, she would have been absolutely certain that the use of the drug would not be permanent. What good is a POW that sleeps all the time? Though option 2 involves forkroot, it would also involve TAR.
Before the mission, I would have rated the probability of each option somewhere around 60-20-20 with Egwene, and around 50-25-25 with Bode, but without the TAR possibilities if Bode were captured. The chances of gaining advantage from the mission? 80% with Egwene and 50% with Bode.
6
dionysus: 2003-03-04
I feel really dumb, but, what was Egwene's mission? How does turning the chain into cuendillar help? Would that stop them from raising/lowering it?
7
Elder Haman: 2003-03-05
dionysus- go check out the message board for COT, there is a very looooooooong discusion of this issue there and there is no where near enough space to reproduce it here.
8
Stanzi: 2003-11-25
This might have nothing to do with anything, but wasn't Bode a notorious tattle tell? Egwene would know this, having grown up with the girl. And that might have played into Egwene's plan. How, I haven't clued out yet, other than a sure bet that Bode would tell somebody that Egwene was the one on the boat that night.
9
natas: 2003-11-25
I don't think Egwene has a free pass in this. Wasn't one of her dreams about the Black Ajah turning her to the DO.
It's likely that Messana knows of her capture, which would put a forsaken at the lead of thirteen black sisters to turn her. Egwene will likely use TAR to get the word out, but it could be Pevara and the other sisters hunting the black Ajah that finds out where Egwene is within the tower and aids her escape, or aids the SAS with an escape. Which could lead eventually with Elaida's demise as Amrylyn, and the reuniting of the Tower as a whole, and the rid of the black Ajah within the Tower.
10
sojihn: 2004-02-09
I am not certain, but having the ability to channel does not fascilitate(sic?) the ability to be a dreamwalker. Therefore even if forkroot was given to Egwene, she should still be able to enter TAR. Remember Perrin is a Dreamer and so are some of the Wise Ones who cannot channel.
11
Callandor: 2004-02-09
**I am not certain, but having the ability to channel does not fascilitate(sic?) the ability to be a dreamwalker. Therefore even if forkroot was given to Egwene, she should still be able to enter TAR. Remember Perrin is a Dreamer and so are some of the Wise Ones who cannot channel.**
You are correct in saying that channeling does not make a Dreamwalker; however, you forget a main part of what Forkroot does: it puts the person into a DREAMLESS sleep. When Elayne and Nynaeve were drugged by Ronde Macura, they had no dreams; they were concious one minute, and out like a light the other. And they stayed that way till the woke up.
If the Aes Sedai kept Egwene drugged on forkroot, she could not escape. But once they took her off it, she could use TAR.
12
Davian93: 2004-02-09
Luckily the Wise Ones taught her how to enter TAR while she's awake. If the keep her on forkroot she won't be much good to interrogate, so eventually whoever captured her would have to let her wake up. Of course, depending on who captured her, they might not know she's a dreamer or dreamwalker. The Black Ajah would know since they know almost everything, but the Tower AS might not be aware of her ability, so they might just keep her shielded. (Anyone please help out with a quote proving or disproving whether the Tower AS know her abilities.) If that is the case there is nothing to worry about. Either way Gawyn is coming to the rescue to save her or break her neck depending on the outcome from Min's viewing. Be interesting to find out.
13
asdaf: 2004-02-17
As far as I know there is no direct mentioning of Egwene's abilities by the Tower AS.
However, in chapter 21 of COT, Elaida is saying such a thing:
"...Who would have thought they would rediscover Traveling? Imagine what we can do once we know that." Smiling, she glided across the carpet.
She says it when Alviarin returns from Tremalking and is 'put in the corner' by her.
Because we know Elaida is the kind of person she is, it would have been impossible for her not to react in any way if she had found out that someone was/is reading her mail. In my opinion she would be close to heart attack.
Quote above, shows they have (TAS) just found that SAS can Travel (they discovered it when they saw an army from nowhere on the other side of river). Traveling is being used very intensively in camp of SAS, and yet no one in WT knows about it. Knowledge about Dreamwalking is limited only to highest ranking SAS and would be much more harder to get than information about Traveling. So I don't think TAS have a clue about it.
This also tells us who could have betrayed Egwene. It couldn't have been any of high ranking SAS - they know about Traveling and Dreamwalking, so they would have told Elaida about it if they had been spying for her. It couldn't have been any of SAS or even none-Aes Sedai in rebel's camp, because such a spy would have told Elaida about Traveling long time ago. This actually implies that there are no WT spies in Egwene's camp. I don't think if it was Halima/Arangar; something like this would collide with Mesaana's 'area of competence', and in current situation (Moridin watching) he would not do anything like this, and Mesaana is busy saving herself to do anything else.
At the end I'd like to give you quote from FOH, when Moghedien is drinking forkroot, just to clear forkroot effect on dreamwalking ability:
*“Not poison. I could kill you easily enough without, if that was my aim. After all, what happens to you here is real in the waking world, too.” [...] It's called forkroot.”
Moghedien took the cup slowly. “So I cannot follow you? I will not argue.” She tipped back her head and swallowed until the cup was empty.
Nynaeve watched her. That much should put her down quickly.[...] “.You knew Birgitte was not dead.” Moghedien's gaze narrowed slightly. “You knew who Faolain is.” The other woman's eyes tried to widen, but she was already drowsy. Nynaeve could feel the forkroot's effects spreading. She concentrated on Moghedien, held there in Tel'aran'rhiod. No easy sleep for one of the Forsaken. “And you knew who Siuan is, that she used to be the Amyrlin Seat. I've never mentioned that in Tel'aran'rhiod. Never. I'll see you very shortly. In Salidar.”
Moghedien's eyes rolled up her head. Nynaeve was not sure whether it was the forkroot or a faint, but it did not matter. She released the other woman, and Moghedien winked out. The silver collar rang as it hit the floortiles. Elayne would be happy about that, at least.*
14
talera: 2004-05-21
1. I am almost certain the TAS don't know about Egwene's Dreamwalker abilities. Since the Tower split, the SAS weren't likely to share something as advantageous as this, especially since they are using the ter'angreals to go through the Tower Amyrlin's papers! I say "almost" certain because there is always the possibility of Black Sisters in Salidar...
2. When Siuan was deposed, she and Leane were constantly shielded. Even though there has been the discovery of forkroot, I think it is unlikely that the TAS would use this; I think its far more likely they would follow steps laid down in Tower Law...steps that have existed for centuries, long before knowledge of forkroot.
Knowing these two facts, Egwene will almost definitely be able to enter TAR...
15
Flinn Sedai: 2004-05-22
**I say "almost" certain because there is always the possibility of Black Sisters in Salidar...**
We know of a couple of Black Sisters in Salidar already: Sheriam and Delana.
However, Black Sisters with SAS wouldn't share anything with TAS. Black Sisters would share things prior to the Forsaken's escape, because they all worked for Ishamael. Now, we have the SAS working for Aran'gar, and the TAS working for Mesaana. No sharing of info.
16
jason wolfbrother: 2004-05-22
Sheriam is a suspected BA, not confirmed. the only confirmed BA in the rebel camp is Delana.
17
dedoublya: 2004-05-22
They stilled siuan, what if they do the same to egwene? And with the whole curing stilling thing, it wouldn't necessarily take her out of the game, only temporarily. I'm sure Elaida's pissed enough at Egwene for claiming her title. That is of course if Egwene is being held by the TAS and not just the black TAS.
18
Callandor: 2004-05-23
**1. I am almost certain the TAS don't know about Egwene's Dreamwalker abilities.**
Her abilities, no; the chance of them, yes. Whether they believe them is another matter, but they should know she has a "possibility", in their minds, of being a Dreamwalker.
19
Aiel Finn: 2005-01-24
What if she is let out of the heavy Forkroot just long enough to get into T'A'R. We know that potions made in T'A'R affect the real person. In this case, she probably will escape when they try to question her.
20
WCDWarder: 2005-01-25
Just a thought, but doesn't it make sense that the TAS would try to force Egwene to show them how to travel? If so, I can envision Egwene creating a portal into T'A'R, and escaping that way, without ever showing the TAS Traveling. The problem with this is that it gives the TAS access to T'A'R. But untrained TAS in the dreamworld may just be committing suicide. Especially by entering in the flesh.
Also, I forget, does Egwene know how to invert weaves? If so, then in "demonstrating" how to travel, she could just invert the weaves and show them nothing in the process of escaping.
21
Callandor: 2005-01-25
**What if she is let out of the heavy Forkroot just long enough to get into T'A'R. We know that potions made in T'A'R affect the real person. In this case, she probably will escape when they try to question her.**
Forkroot places you in a dreamless sleep. You simply black out and lose all consciousness until the effects wear off. Going with this, the ability to enter Tel'aran'rhiod seems to be a no-no for an escape.
However, once they stop giving her the forkroot, then she sleeps, she could possibly escape that way.
**Also, I forget, does Egwene know how to invert weaves? If so, then in "demonstrating" how to travel, she could just invert the weaves and show them nothing in the process of escaping.**
Egwene does know how to invert weaves, however she'd have to weave a gateway first (showing them the weave), then invert it.
But when, and why, in their terribly stupid Aes Sedai minds, would they allow one of the strongest channelers they know of to channel? They gave her forkroot to specifically combat that.
22
Aiel Finn: 2005-01-26
I may be wrong, and I don't have the books on me at the moment, but I thouhgt that there was a way to hide weaves while making them, as well as hiding them after they are made. Also, if they are going to do anything to Ewgene other than keep her prisioner or kill her, they will need to get her off of forkroot. She can't even really think or speak clearly if she's drugged with it. If they do this, she knows how to enter T'A'R at any time. She probably would be able to drag people into T'A'R and hold them there, or give them forkroot.
23
Callandor: 2005-01-26
**I may be wrong, and I don't have the books on me at the moment, but I thouhgt that there was a way to hide weaves while making them, as well as hiding them after they are made.**
Channelers can reverse weaves in this manner, but no one except the Forsaken know how to do that. Inverting is a little bit known, but reversing isn't.
24
Dannil Lewin: 2005-01-27
Egwene has dreams about an attack on the white tower by the Seanchan and a seanchan woman helping her to escape...I think that is how she will get out of this problem when she decides to accept seanchan help.
25
kettu: 2005-05-11
Hmm.. Did I miss something along the way? Must Egwene channel to enter t'a'r in flesh? If so, it would be quite foolish of the women in The Tower to let her escape that way - after all, they at least must suspect she can Travel. I think they will keep her shielded at all times, if not stilled.
Egwene had a True Dream of the Seanchan attacking The White Tower and the Seanchan helping her in some way, or them helping each other. Add the promise from Egwene that she would rather die than ever be collared again, and you have a nice stew. I think that the Seanchan will eventually attack the White Tower and somehow aid Egwene's escape, maybe by bringing the Aes Sedai together to face the threat, or by some more direct manner. It is also possible that Egwene has to wear the collar once again.
Tuon and Egeanin might have a vital role, but as long as they are with Mat, I can not see how that could be possible.
Where does Egwene enter t'a'r in flesh? I have of course read all the books, but I cannot remember. I do not have them all yet, since they are not easy to get your hands on in Finland. (There's an excuse for any bad spelling, I'm finnish..)
By the way and way off the point, would you believe that the last book translated in finnish was the Winter's Heart. And that was the book 19 or something! All of them are split into 2-3 books. I started ordering them in english since The Lord of Chaos, but it will take some time to collect them all.
26
Callandor: 2005-05-11
**Hmm.. Did I miss something along the way? Must Egwene channel to enter t'a'r in flesh? If so, it would be quite foolish of the women in The Tower to let her escape that way - after all, they at least must suspect she can Travel. I think they will keep her shielded at all times, if not stilled.**
Yes, to enter tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh, one must open a gateway into it with the One Power. That is almost certainly out of the question.
However, Egwene has shown the ability to effect the real world, via simply entering tel'aran'rhiod as a dreamwalker.
**Where does Egwene enter t'a'r in flesh? I have of course read all the books, but I cannot remember. I do not have them all yet, since they are not easy to get your hands on in Finland. (There's an excuse for any bad spelling, I'm finnish..)**
Egwene enter's tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh in Lord of Chaos, when she leaves Cairhien to go to Salidar, after being summoned by the Aes Sedai, right before being raised Amyrlin.
27
JakOShadows: 2005-05-11
Sorry, I haven't read all of the posts, but I do not think Egwene can completely depend on dreamwalking. I will admit she has more skill than in tDR when she first used it, but since she cannot walk out of there if circumstances are against her in reality. Therefore, I think the Seanchan will be very important in uniting the tower/rescueing her. And I think deep down, Tuon may end up helping Egwene because she does realize that all woman channelers need to be unified to win the LB. I can't give you any proof on that last statement there, but it just seems out of character for her order that attack. And the fact that Eganin is also Egwenes friend may help their cause. There just seem to be options for escape through the Seanchan.
28
dedoublya: 2005-05-12
I think it's Lord of Chaos, the sixth book that she enters in the flesh. She gets summoned to Salidar, whipped by the Wise Ones, then creates a gateway from the real world into T'A'R. She travels to Salidar on an imaginary Bela (the horse).
Ok, I think we can rule out this ability as helping her at all. First off, whether she's kept under forkroot or shielded, she can't create a gateway into T'A'R. If she's sheilded she can enter in dreams, but this is useless since she cannot leave. Telling somebody isn't going to help because it's pretty obvious she's been captured, and what can anyone really do to help her.
I think our safest bet, which someone has already mentioned, is the Seanchan. Although they're going to have to quite a lot during the next few books, what with offering up a fake Daughter of the Nine Moons to Rand, and Tuon in Mat's "care". I reckon Mat will meet up with the band again pretty soon. I reckon they'll somehow find each other. Talmanes says he feels Mat needing the band or something. But that's not really anything to do with Egwene, unless they somehow travel thousands of miles to the Tower to help her out - unlikely.
