alima's blunder
by a dragonburned fool: 2003-11-30 | Not yet rated
This theory is about the disadvatnages for Halima from Egwene's kidnapping and the advantages for Halima from Bode's kidnapping (as Halima expected, before Egwene's intervention). I'm assuming here, it was Halima, who was responsible for managing the kidnapping: I haven't enough evidences about prefering this variant before the alternative traitors, but it is one of the best alternatives, and it would be very ironical for Halima to ruin her own plans by her own acts, and because "WoT" is a novel with lot of ironical peripeties, it's a little more likely variant. But even if it's not Halima, who telled to the Tower the chain transforming plan, it's consequences for Halima's plans are the same.
Most likely Halima knowed about Egwene's plan, she knowed that it will be Bode to perform the mission, and she didn't know Egwene's taking part. And she (or whoever else made the deal with the TV sisters)expected Bode would been captured. Why wishing Bode been captured? Bode is a novice (a novice!) sent in a dangerous mission. And novices are regarded by AS as children. Including the aspect, that accidents with novices are regarded like accidents with children. If an AS as Kairen Stang would be captured by the mission, it would be bad for who ordered the mission, and the rebel Hall will be very angry. But the difference between AS captured and novice captured is like the difference between a soldier MIA and a child victim. A novice captured is a great scandal, a perfect bomb for Halima to throw in the rebel Hall. Amd whatever Halima's plans are, they do include maintaining as nervous as possible atmosphere among the rebels. And concerning the advantages for the Towes AS from the "bargain" some points: 1. it's not necessary for them to know it would be novice, they will expect a full AS to perform such a mission; 2. the bargain coul also include Leane's kidnapping; 3. tha lack of novices in the Tower makes a girl with Bode's abilities something precious; 4. the scandal of sending a novice in such a mission is very well for Elaida's propaganda.
But in the last moment and without any warning, Egwene takes part and goes to transform the chain instead of Bode, and the situation is changed radically in all the aspects.
1. Amerlyn captured i much worse fo the rebels then a novice captured, but it's a completely different kind of scandal. Halima's actions maintained a status quo of ineffectivity, but Amerlyn's kidnapping will cause some radical solutions, it may ruin the rebellion or it may consolidate the rebels or force them to a decisive action, but it will radicaly change the situation in a way unexpected by Halima, and very possibly in a way unfavourable for her. In any case her plans concerning the rebels will no much mach the situation and will require too radical changes, with enough time to react. Even if it would create chaos, most likely it wouldn't be the sort of chaos Halima wanted.
2. Halima's massage sessions require Egwene presence, and Egwene is no more present. Whatever Halima intended with her massages, it was one of her primordial objectives to be near Egwene, and now she's not. By Egwene being kidnapped an important part of Halima's plans is ruined. Ironically by being captured Egwene escapes a great great danger, against wich she showed no abilities to defend herself. At least now her deraming skills will be no more threatened.
3. Actually it's not the best time for the Tower Black Ajah to face such an important event as the enemy's Amerlyn captured. Actually the situation in the Tower BA is very delicate now. The resident Forsaken is in very difficult situation and there are to be expected more troubles then help from here. Shaidar Haran is now in charge, but SH cannot be long time far from Shayol Ghul, and he's also busy with another things, so now the Tower is almost without a Forsaken command. The situation with the Black Ajah Head is even worse. Alviarin is still Head (i.e. regarded as unchangable without a Forsaken order) but she's in very difficult situation. She's very angry with Elaida escaping her control, and Egwene's kidnapping will strenghten Elaida's position much more, and enhance her arrogance too. This could move Alviarin to do something desperate. And in the time of her absence something could happen in the BA, threatening her leadership position. Because Mesaana was too calm about the lost control over Elaida, there could be another figure from the BA becoming more important. Katherine Alruddin came to the Tower in the same time as the new Keeper, she is very strong in OP and maybe the next Head of the Reds (Reds are leaded by the strongest among them, as BWB states), and there is maybe a special behaviour of the Shadow to her (her rescuing from the Aiel, when another BA remained prisoners. All that could move Katherin to claim the leadership in the BA. A struggle in BA could make it very difficult to use Egwene's kidnapping coordinated, effective and consistent enough. They will try to use it of course, but there may be too many incompatible plans only in the BA about, and nervous plans too. And because they are unprepared for Egwene coming in their hands, they will be put in the position to improvize, and it's not the best time for them to improvize. It's quite possibly for them to make mistakes attempting to react to Egwene's kidnapping in a too nervous way. And not to forget the Seanchan strike coming, what makes the situation even more complicated.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-12-17
Frenzy for Tamyrlin
I like the idea of using the "screw-up" of capturing Egwene instead of a novice as proof that Halima was behind it, since Jordan has a habit of doing the opposite of what he writes. I don't think Halima would want to discredit Egwene to the extent that a captured novice would, since that would limit Egwene's power over the rebels too much (and therefor Halima's.) Then again, Egwene is proving to be much more forceful than anyone anticipated, so perhaps Halima's reaction is just as overkill.
As for Katerine usurping Alviarin, she may try but she won't succeed. Especially now that Alviarin is 'marked.'
2
Machera: 2003-12-22
i don't think halima had anything to do with it. Because i thought that the the people that captured Egwene were Pevera and her friends. Why don't ask?
3
Aelfinn: 2004-01-07
Hmm, I think this is a very interesting theory, for a couple of reasons. It [the book] doesn't straight-out say the theory, but neither is it just pulling things from the air, like "Someshta killed Asmo".
I never had any opinion on Egwene's kidnapping before, but this is actually making sense. Let's just say that I won't be disappointed if RJ turns out to do exactly this, WHENEVER HE GETS AROUND TO WRITING THE 11TH BOOK!
:D
4
Elder Haman: 2004-01-07
Has anyone considered the disturbing thought that perhaps RJ isn't sure himself about who "betrayed" Egwene (quotes in case it was a blunder and Bode was the target). Maybe he just knew He needed Egwene inside the Tower before the next phase of his story and couldn't figure out how to get her in there before the publishing deadline- so he decide to leave it hanging until the next book so he would have some extra time to figure it out? (Just don't stone me for blasphamy)
5
rubbernilly: 2004-01-08
LOL
All hail the heroic, merciful Someshta, called Forsaken Bane by the Creator.
All I have to say is that Halima had better walk small around this Forsaken-killing dynamo!
:)
6
Unicorn: 2004-02-08
Pretty cool idea, I will agree that Halima would not want Egwene captured for a number of reasons. a) Egwene is Halima's link to the power that is in the Salidar group. Forget Delana and the hall, we all know Egwene and the cronies run the show. b) Even though Halima may or may not be trying to delay the attack on Tar Valon, loosing Egwene is tantamount to resigning from the game, not exactly a forsakens usual strategy. What I mean is this: each "tower" has a forsaken trying to run things Mesaana in Tar Valon, and Halima/balthamel(or aginor I always get it wrong) with the Salidar group. If Elaida wins mesaana wins and Halima is back to square one, and vice versa. THe forsaken do NOT sacrifice themselves for the greater cause, and I don't remember Moridin having control of Halima, and apparently his control of Messaana is not that strong(she didn't show up, he was annoyed).
Also I agree with Elder Hamann, Egwene needs to be in Tar Valon. the who, and how might not even be resolved yet. RJ probably has something in mind but it might not be elaborate at all. But if Egwene is not captured, she doesn't need the psycho boyfriend to rescue her. if not then Gawyn is not needed in the story, and RJ has invested too much in him to be unessecary.(any one notice that all three supergirls have borderline maniacs as boyfriends - Elayne has Rand, a male channeler, Nynaeve has Lan, a warder with a ripped bond, and Egwene has Gawyn who is "worried" so he is a loose cannon killing or wanting to kill anything and anyone).
In the end, I will show off my complete ignorance and ask: What is the BWB and where can I get it, too many references for it to be ignored by me.
7
dragonsceptor: 2004-02-08
I feel for you. I had to go to the boards to find out what the BWB was. BWB stands for Big White Book. It is the guide that was written about the WoT world. The WOT FAQ calls it the guide. You should be able to find it online or a decent bookstore.
8
Illuminati: 2004-02-09
The Forsaken seem to want the tower to be split into two equal forces struggling for controll. Most actions from both sides of the forsaken controlled towers have been to cripple their side or even advantages.
Egwene had dispite all this found a way to gain the Salidar side the upper hand, this had to be stopped or atleast evened out. This is why Halima acted the way she did, to have Bela and Leane captured while trying or succeding would even the score, making for a disaster for both sides (one side trapped in and truly sieged, the other side lost prestige with the capture and the leader (Egwene) would have to spend time to get everyone on track again.
Now, Halima never counted on Egwene taking direct charge of this mission and replacing Bela. This is not something a seasoned leader would had done, and as a seasoned leader Halima did not consider it. And further on that road I believe that Halima thought Siuan to be the brains and the "real" leader in Salidar, using Egwene to forward her purpose. Getting this link wrong proved to be fatal for Halima and the Tower Aes Sedai with Elaida now has a distinct upper hand (something that was not intended).
Somehow Halima and the BA will have to try to restore the balance, and when they do some key figures on both sides will probably start to see through all this and unravel the Forsaken hold on the stalemate and then the Seanchan attack, but that is another part of the story. :)
That's my belief after having read alot on forums. My view of it all when I read it was surprise, I didn't expect her to get captured that way. I expected and still expect her accepted test to become real and for that Bela needed to be keeper, she isn't so all I've been looking forward to has crumbled with this move by RJ. :)
9
Tain Shari: 2004-02-20
I have also put this idea under the Halmia headaches, I think that this event might actually be a blessingin discuise and the turing point in the tower cold war, Until recently we are lead to believe, or people are assuming that out beloved Egwene is under the compulsion of Halima, I am of this opinion, i think Halimas first blunder was to allow Egwene as much freedom as she did, she obvious alowd enough private thought for her to make this disicion of swapping her and bode. Halima second blunder was to make her compolsion weaves weak enough that they disapate after a short time (resulting in headaches) so this kidnapping will be enough to break egwene of the compulsion, expose halima and expose her Aes Sedai (who name slips my mind.) I said before that this may be the turing point and stop the war. I think it may be a close thing between Egwene and Elaide for the role of head honcho, both need support of both sides and what better than turing in a network of BA there master and male/hybrid channeler (hamila). Now it can go down either way both sides have spies but i think that it will be the rebels who, through the eyes and ears actually in the tar valon town, will find out about halima. This will bring down halim (duh) and expose members of the black ahja. I think that siuan being the great solver that she is will eventually make links to the blacks in the actualk white tower and in the rebel hall, This will throw both sides into considerable chaos. This is why it was such a HUGE blunder because i can see it as being the thing that unifies the two towers..... (woops) reds want to catch blacks and men.... egwene lands them with the biggest man/black you can get...
It sounds bad but i think the reds want to get into good books with the world and capturing a black agah of halimas calibre, it may also be the catalyst in the white tower BA hunt because it may point out alviaran which filters down to those below, look that is kind of accelerated domino effect but you can see the drift. Just everything will now slot into place with the blacks dissapearing out of the tower (as TG starts to aproach) the white tower will be forced to join again, and seeing as Egwene has scored more brownie points she will lead them.
Yeah there you go, erratic... but i kinda got my point accross
10
charliec: 2004-02-20
More questions than suggestions here while I marshall my thoughts...
first up... how do we 'know' Halima's one of Aginor/Balthamel? (let me guess- BWB?) it's just she seem sto have too much of a sense of humour...
Secondly, is the evidence that convincing that she had such a strong hold on Egwene, I thought she was being VERY light handed.
Suggestion, Egwene's capture is an unmitigated disaster for the rebels... despite any internal problems in the tower, the only way I can see it getting saved is by intervention from rand and/or the Asha'man.
I don't see any profit in this for Halima, or in turning in Bode for that matter, it's just tipping the balance of power the other way (and against her too). I half-reckon the traitor might not even be a Darkfriend, just one of the rebels with weaker resolution who wants to see the tower whole again ASAP without having to fight...
Go ahead, shoot me down =~)
11
RogueSavior: 2004-08-26
We know that Halima is Belthamel because when we found about Aran'gar and Osan'Gar, the only non-balefired dead forsaken were Belthamel, Aginor, Lanfear, And Ishamael. We know that Aginor is Osan'Gar/Dashiva because an Oran'Gar POV states that he was sick of masquerading as Corlan Dashiva anyway. Plus another talks about him making trollocs and myrddraal, which Graendal and Mesaana attribute to Aginor. Lanfear is a woman, and thus can't touch saidin, so she can't be Aran'Gar. Osan'Gar could be either Ishamael or Belthamel, and it is widely accepted that Ishamael is Moridin (which im not sure of, but i can't prove it yet). This leaves Belthamel as Halima. This in addition to the man-slut tendencies of Belthamel described in tEotW, which Halima's POV talks about how she acted as a man. Plus she dresses skanky because the man inside likes to look.
12
Callandor: 2004-08-26
**and it is widely accepted that Ishamael is Moridin (which im not sure of, but i can't prove it yet)**
Have at it. You will have a ~very~ tough time trying to prove he is not Ishamael transmigrated ;)
WoT FAQ:
http://www.arkane- systems.net/faqs/WOTFAQ/1_dark/1.2_for
saken2/1.2.3_moridin.html