and, Mat and Suroth will meet at Valan Luca's Menagerie
by Great Lord of the Dark: 2005-06-27 | 4.64 out of 10 (14 votes)
Rand will be a special guest at Valan Luca's Menagerie. Sounds corny? Well, consider this...
Rand and Suroth are the two pre-eminent leaders of the continent. Between the two super-powers, they hold sway over more than half the continent. When Reagan and Gorbachev meet, it's in neutral ground, in Iceland. Rand and Suroth also need neutral ground, so each can feel secure about not walking into the other's den. Rand can travel anywhere, but Suroth will not want to be too far from her base of power since she doesn't know have anyone who knows how to Travel back to Ebou Dar. Rand will not want to be in Ebou Dar where Seanchan Power is concentrated. To appease both, a town on the outskirts of Seanchan control would do perfectly. Somewhere a day's Travel from Ebou Dar by raken, selected only a day before their peace summit.
While there are a number of towns that could meet that criteria, we should consider that there should also be some world-class entertainment for the two great leaders. What could fit that bill but Valan Luca's Grand Traveling Show and Magnificent Display of Marvels and Wonders? It has bears, leopards, lions, s'redit, capar from the Aiel Waste, horses, some strange deer. This is especially relevant when you recall that: "Such screens were considered vulgar, but Suroth liked animals. Unable to bring her menagerie with her across the Aryth Ocean, she had had the screens made to depict her two favorites." I bet Suroth would love to see a capar.
Whether by Suroth's own choice, or ta'veren twisting of fate, Rand and Suroth will be in attendance at Valan Luca's menagerie. This works fine for Suroth since her plot to capture Rand relies on forkroot, which can easily be slipped to Rand no matter where they meet.
Suroth knows about forkroot from a woman in Tuon's service, Ronde Macura, who was left behind in Ebou Dar with most of Tuon's entourage, and is eager to share her knowledge with those who would enslave Aes Sedai: "The Macura woman flung herself down prostrate and kissed the deck before a few quiet words from Yuril made her get back to her feet blushing and smoothing her pleated red skirts. Tuon had been uncertain about taking her into service, back in Tanchico, but the woman had pleaded like a da'covale. She hated Aes Sedai in her bones, for some reason, and despite the rewards already given for her extremely valuable information, she hoped to do them more injury."
So, Rand meets Suroth, cuts a deal, gets drugged with Forkroot, Forsaken show up to haul him away, and then Mat can come to his rescue with Tuon. Or Tuon rescues him with Mat in tow. And Kadere can show up too. Might as well toss the mega-pack of Darkhounds in the mix. It should be fun.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2005-07-23
Well, while you submitted this more than three weeks ago, it has now become possible, whereas before it didn't seem plausible. Beyond the fact that Jordan likes Valan Luca and continues to bring him and his ilk back into the story, the prologue to Knife of Dreams does lead us to a better understanding of Rand and the Empress. While I don't believe your theory, and it is quite speculative as to the potential location of such a meeting, it is posssible Jordan brought Valan Luca and his show back into the books recently for just such an occasion.
2
Davian93: 2005-07-24
****Reagan and Gorbachev meet, it's in neutral ground, in Iceland****
My major problem with this theory is that Iceland is actually part of NATO, has NATO airbases there, and is definitely not neutral.
Although I also still doubt that Rand, who trusts no one other than Min, Elayne and Avi, would drink anything that Suroth would give him or would be at a meeting without his pet AS, Logain, and various other channeling Allies. But Valan Lucas managerie is a good a place as any to meet.
3
Callandor: 2005-07-24
**Rand will be a special guest at Valan Luca's Menagerie. Sounds corny? Well, consider this...**
Yes, it does sound corny. ;)
**Rand and Suroth are the two pre-eminent leaders of the continent.**
Well, I'd have some technicalities with that. Tuon is actually the leader now (even though she is kidnapped), and you of course left out Aes Sedai (even though their divided); but I do see you're point.
**Rand and Suroth also need neutral ground, so each can feel secure about not walking into the other's den.**
I very strongly agree -- I do not feel Rand is a big enough moron to meet in Suroth's lands, and I highly doubt Suroth would ever meet with Rand on his lands. As Bayle Domon said in The Great Hunt, "Never meet a lord in his own mannor."
**To appease both, a town on the outskirts of Seanchan control would do perfectly. Somewhere a day's Travel from Ebou Dar by raken, selected only a day before their peace summit.**
A day's travel? That sounds contrived and cut specifically to this theory GLotD ;) I feel it's much more likely they would meet where their powers are pushing up on each other: the Illian border.
**While there are a number of towns that could meet that criteria, we should consider that there should also be some world-class entertainment for the two great leaders.**
Don't agree with that. Their meeting to establish a truce -- not have a ho down.
**I bet Suroth would love to see a capar.**
I'm sure she would. As the quote said, she loves animals. But why would she be indluging flights of fancy to see animals, when the important duty of meeting the Dragon Reborn is at hand?
**This works fine for Suroth since her plot to capture Rand relies on forkroot, which can easily be slipped to Rand no matter where they meet.**
But they do not know if it works on male channelers ;)
**So, Rand meets Suroth, cuts a deal, gets drugged with Forkroot, Forsaken show up to haul him away, and then Mat can come to his rescue with Tuon. Or Tuon rescues him with Mat in tow.**
If you read the Prologue to Knife of Dreams (which I know you won't be doing for quite some time GLotD ;)), you'd find out just how dangerous that would be.
Like I said, I completely agree with the neutral ground part of your theory, but I just don't think Luca's show right now is all that neutral with it's location. It's still quite inside Seanchan control. Heck, the Illian border is still in Seanchan control -- but it's much closer to neutrality than a day's ride by raken out of Ebou Dar is.
4
Traveller: 2005-07-24
I think that this is always an option and that it has been explained well, it still seems a bit far-fetched. However I haven't read the Knife of Dreams prologue, so what would I know?
5
clarkkd: 2005-07-24
I like it! but didn't the "s'redit" end up back in the army?
6
JakOShadows: 2005-07-25
While it would be nice for them to enjoy a good old fashioned ho down, I don't think it will happen. It will probably be a tense situation considering the differences between beliefs in channeling between the seanchan and randland. So it would probably be much closer towards Illian or maybe somewhere else safer. And it is also closer to any form of civilization, whereas Valan Luca's show is traveling in small little towns that Mat thinks aren't even worth setting up the show for. So in my mind it doesn't seem likely. I'll read the prologue of Knife of Dreams soon(I have yet to buy it) and get back to you after that, because from what you have said it sounds like they'll get involved again.
7
terez: 2005-07-28
Hey guys, it's hoedown, not ho down, like "put yer hoe down 'n come dance":)
8
dwilson: 2005-07-29
another bit of supporting evidence on this theory is that at the end of CoT Bashere negotiates a truce for Rand and we hear that the DoTNM wants to meet him. Everyone assumes this was Suroth posing as Tuon, but what if it isnt, what if she is still secretly controlling the Seachan's Return from the back of the cabin she is stuck in at Valans circus. Then that would increase the possibility of Rand meeting her here at Valans circus immensly.
9
Yaga Shura: 2005-07-29
" what if she is still secretly controlling the Seachan's Return from the back of the cabin she is stuck in at Valans circus."
How? They don't really seem to have any long range communication that could be used undetected.
10
brother of Battles: 2005-07-29
dwilson-
Yes at the end of Crossroads Bashere did say that the DofNM wanted to meet with the Dragon Reborn, but didn't it also say that he was speaking to Suroth? How could Bashere be talking to Suroth, have Suroth arrange a meeting between Rand and Tuon, but Suroth not even knowing Tuon is alive or not? And behind the whole thing is Tuon herself? I fear that is a little far fetched.
11
Anubis: 2005-07-30
The biggest problem with this theory is that high level negociations are usually handled in places of importance... not the freakin circus.
12
Jeff237: 2005-07-30
I think it more likely that Valan Luca will be an amusement at any meeting between Suroth and Rand, and quite possibly used as a ruse or set up.
13
Oatman: 2005-08-02
Ok a few things....
Suroth has no idea where Valan Luca's show is, and shouldnt care. I have no doubt she could find it it no time, but she has no reason to, not knowing if its on neutral ground or not.
If it was gonna happen the whole show would know about it, and Mat, Tuon et al would skidadle as soon as they heard.
Nynaeve would do everything in her power to stop the location being the menagerie, she dosnt want to risk seeing Luca again.
I think its more likely that the meeting will take place at sea, the only true neutral place in any world. Besides which, I think its time Rands sea folk did somthing besides complaining about horses.
14
Great Lord of the Dark: 2005-08-09
by the way, before Tuon took the show under her protection, Valan Luca already had a letter from Suroth herself. Luca had given shelter to some Seanchan animal trainer, and his reward had been a warrant, signed by the High Lady Suroth herself, allowing him to keep all of his animals. So yes, she does know of him and his show, and likely thinks he's in her pocket. Too bad she doesn't know Tuon has a greater hold on him now.
15
JakOShadows: 2005-08-10
That's an interesting piece of the puzzle I didn't notice. The only thing I can't help is that she might of hid her trainer and forgotten about. Or maybe forgotten is not the right word, maybe lost track of what he's doing. But it is interesting thought, because if she finds Tuon was with the show, then she knows to follow the Valan Luca's trail. And it is a fairly obvious thing to follow. Good find.
16
lurk: 2005-08-17
Valan Luca's show is important because there the use of firearms will be discovered. i don't think there is any other reason for him showing up again and again in the books except that his show has some attraction to people who need to hide their identity
17
Anubis: 2005-08-17
**i don't think there is any other reason for him showing up again and again in the books except that his show has some attraction to people who need to hide their identity**
heh, so far that seems to be its only purpose
18
William Seeker: 2005-08-21
I don't think Rand would care where they meet. He's smart enough to know he needs to act like he's got the upper hand, or he'll just get stabbed in the back. Anyways he doesn't have much to fear if he brings along a couple of Ashaman and Aes Sedai.
