1
Tamyrlin: 2003-05-31
This was an initial guess I had at one time, but I have been told that before Mashadar is destroyed there is one ghost siting. If not for that incident, the destruction of Mashadar would be the most likely explanation in my opinion.
2
Mairashda: 2003-05-31
yes, one sighting at least... and I do believe that Gedwyn and Torval "coming back to life" at the end of WH (blue carp street, CH.33)is the first 'sighting'...
3
Weird Harold: 2003-05-31
Sahne said,"This is my first so I hope this has not been said already but what if all the ghosts are not part of some diabolical scheme of The Dark One or Moridin but just a by product of Mashadar being destroyed and thus irrelevant to the story and future, a loose end as RJ says?"
I thnk you're about one third right -- the Dead walking are simply a side effect of the DO's increased touch, and not part of some plan or or scheme.
The ghosts in So Habor had been a problem for a month or more before Perrin's visit -- That puts them at least three weeks before the Cleansing.
However, the ghosts are NOT irrelevant to the story or future after T'G, nor are they a "loose end". The ghosts are part of the prophecies and one of many signs that the conditions for T'G are being set up; perhaps an indication that the Shadow is currently stronger than the Light.
I don't believe that there is anything direct that will be done to lay the ghosts to rest, but they will pretty much vanish when the DO is once again sealed in his prison.
4
shane: 2003-06-04
hi folks thanks for constructive thoughts but Weird Harold said''The ghosts are part of the prophecies and one of many signs that the conditions for T'G are being set up''
Where in the prophecies is this???
5
Dorindha: 2003-06-04
es, one sighting at least... and I do believe that Gedwyn and Torval "coming back to life" at the end of WH (blue carp street, CH.33)is the first 'sighting'...
I always thought that was Fain's doing, to lure Rand. I'm not sure how he would have done it, but I just assumed it was the case.
6
shane: 2003-06-12
Hi folks back again just reviewing this theory again and I think i'm right well at least the last paragraph I have just reread WH and its clear the ghosts of the renigades (blue carp st)were killed by fain,=) tighting the connection to Mashadar these also did not realise that they were dead as is true of the other ghosts, the one Elayne saw was in Caemlyn were fain had also been (after harrowing the two rivers)maybe also killed that ghost, tar valon.. there as well,the odd one out so far is the ghost town but we have no idea where fain is at the moment so could he have been there for the recent kills and the ''older period ghosts'' were killed in wars against SL during the compact of the ten nations and now released. the dark one has control of the grave but only those who do not walk in the light there is NO evidence the he can bring back the goodies!! As Mashadar is not of the dark one or the creator these poor soals are now outside the turnings of the Wheel.
Please tear it apart again.
7
silverwolf: 2003-06-14
Torval and Rochaid were a creation of Fain's. He used one of his "tricks" to make them appear. If you read it you know they aren't ghosts--Rand destroys them with his sword (Also, Fain screams and flees from the building when they are destroyed). Sorry, but they have nothing to do with the ghosts in So Harbor (unless Fain is also responsible for those??)
8
molec: 2003-12-22
Perhaps Fain is responsible for So Harbor. The Darkhounds that were hunting around Perrin's camp were have an unknown target. Some have speculated that their target might actually be Fain. Some evidence in support of this idea is the 'evil tea party' in WH where Moridin refers to Fain as a wildcard (paraphrase). Slayer's Darkhound packs might have been employed by Moridin to hunt Fain.
This still leaves the question of the ghosts on the Great Road Mat is traveling. Although, again this might be tied to Fain if you believe that Mat and Perrin are approaching one another...
9
matoyak: 2004-08-12
I see callandor hasn't found this one yet. Fain is outside time? where in the books does it say that? and torval and what's-his-name did NOT do anything to be distracting such as waveing swords and Rand did not destroy them they disappeared
10
Dorindha: 2004-08-12
motoyak - Jordan has said in an interview that Fain is free of the pattern, in the sense he is like a loose thread. I disagree that this means he is outside time itself.
11
Callandor: 2004-08-12
**I see callandor hasn't found this one yet. Fain is outside time? where in the books does it say that? and torval and what's-his-name did NOT do anything to be distracting such as waveing swords and Rand did not destroy them they disappeared**
No, I get lazy.
**Question: Has the Padan Fain/Mordeth character been present in previous Ages, or is he unique to this particular Age?
RJ: He is unique to this particular Age. A very unique fellow, indeed. In some ways, you might say he has unwittingly side-stepped the Pattern.**
Rand slashed at Torval and Gedwyn, and then they disappeared.
**TITLE: Winter's Heart
CHAPTER: 33 - Blue Carp Street
Without thought, Rand twisted his wrists in Cutting the Wind and immediately followed with Unfolding the Fan.
The illusion of dead men come back to life vanished, and Fain leaped back with a shriek, blood streaming down the side of his face. Suddenly he tilted his head as though listening, and a moment later, aiming a scream of wordless fury at Rand, he fled down the stairs.**
Doesn't make much since for Fain to be suddenly injured, when Rand slashes at Torval and Gedwyn, for them not to be linked.
12
fistandantilus: 2004-08-12
ok, you are correct, Rand did not attack the illusions of Torval and Gedwyn. He in fact attacked and scored a hit on Fain, which caused the images to dissapear.
Winter's Heart
Blue carp Street
719
Torval and Gedwyn came up the stairs with their cloaks over their arms.
"I say we aren't going near him untilI know where the others are,"Gedwyn growled. "the M'Hael will kill us if..."
Without thought, Rand twisted his wrists in Cutting the Wind and immediately followedwith Unfolding the Fan.
*The illusion of dead men come back to life vanished, and Fain leaped back with a shriek, blood streaming down the side of his face.*
13
fistandantilus: 2004-08-12
The Dark One is the Lord of the Grave. Whatever the exact specifications of the job, we know it has to do with the afterlife. Master of the afterlife sounds like a pretty boring job, but perhaps the DO has finally found a use for these dead people.
We have seen that the DO is no stranger to contingencies. So what if he realized the potential for failure in this age, and is planning for the next. If he can prevent souls from being reborn by keeping them locked on the earth, then eventually there will be no one left to stop him from breaking free. As long as he keeps enough Forsaken to help him escape, he will be unstoppable because there will be no one to get in his way.
Now this makes things look very dire in Randland. Perhaps the part of the prophecy that states the Dragon has to die deals with this. It sort of makes sense that the only way to free souls from the Dark One is to faight as one of them.
14
Callandor: 2004-08-15
**The Dark One is the Lord of the Grave. Whatever the exact specifications of the job, we know it has to do with the afterlife. Master of the afterlife sounds like a pretty boring job, but perhaps the DO has finally found a use for these dead people.**
It's a saying put to him by man. It is not an actual title. The only souls the Dark One can control are that of the Forsaken.
Think about it. If the Dark One has this great, and total power over all the souls, why wouldn't he take control of the Heroes of the Horn in the AoL? Take them, transmigrate them, then mindtrap them and destroy the mindtrap to make then totally his?
He would. If he could.
