irgette and the dead
by bigjellybeans: 2005-05-10 | 6.04 out of 10 (23 votes)
Something I have recently noticed in the wheel of time is Birgette and her concern for herself. From crossroads of twilight we read that her memories are starting to fade from her past lifes and Elayne has noticed the concern birgette gives through the bond.
"She remembered almost nothing clearly before the founding of the White Tower, and not all of that. Some nights, the fear that Gaidal would fade from her memory, too, that she would lose any remembrance of actually having known and loved him, left her unable to sleep until she drank as much brandy as she could hold."
Pretty much it doesnt seem to be getting better with her is my point. Elsewhere in Randland ghosts are starting to appear and they are starting to freak the hell out of people. Also seems to be getting worse. Now the question everyone may be asking in regards to the dead is why? What does it all mean?
I think that somehow perhaps Birgette being ripped from the pattern may have done more harm than originally thought and is somehow responsible for the dead.
What harm the worst is yet to be determined. But what Birgette has to do with the dead I think I can somewhat explain. Several others threads on this site have suggested that the dead of the wheel of time hang out in TAR until the wheel decides to spin them out again into the pattern. Birgette like all other things in WOT was just another thread in the great pattern. Then of course Mogie came on by and ripped Birgitte from the pattern.
"The glow around Moghedien increased until it seemed as if the blinding sun surrounded her. The night folded in over Birgitte like an ocean wave, enveloping her in blackness. When it passed, the bow dropped atop empty clothes as they collapsed. The clothes faded like fog burning off, and only the bow and arrows remained, shining in the moonlight."
Imagine a nice blanket with a very intricate pattern to it. And then add a nice little hole or rip to it. Over time that rip is going to get worse on the pattern until eventually you have a very nice looking rag if you dont repair it.
So with this perhaps Birgettes hole has allowed the dead to prematurely escape TAR back into Randland. I believe it to be entirely possible. This may tie into another theory I have posted titled "the big oops". The dead walking may turn into a bigger problem for all parties concerned and we may say "gasp how horrible" like RJ said we would.
Or Birgette's rip might have been viewed by the dark and are ripping out more threads of the pattern to further distract the light.
I'm not quite sure where the situation of the dead are going. I only tried to somewhat explain where they are comming from what do you think?
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1
Tamyrlin: 2005-05-17
To be honest, I hadn't considered the Birgitte moment as the defining moment where the ghost phenomenon appeared. I wonder if Elayne made a huge mistake keeping Birgitte alive, as though Birgitte's being alive is keeping a conduit for the dead open into the world, which is in essence what your theory would be suggesting. I don't remember getting the first reference of ghosts or the walking dead until book eight or nine, but I like the theory; it would be nice to know if additional material existed to support your theory. You should go back and take a closer look for stronger quotes.
2
Callandor: 2005-05-17
**Several others threads on this site have suggested that the dead of the wheel of time hang out in TAR until the wheel decides to spin them out again into the pattern. Birgette like all other things in WOT was just another thread in the great pattern. Then of course Mogie came on by and ripped Birgitte from the pattern.**
She was a soul in tel'aran'rhiod. Moghedien, if anything, ripped Birgitte ~into~ the Pattern, by (as RJ described it) "short-circuiting it."
3
sarutobi: 2005-05-17
I think that Birgette beginning to lose her memories is the wheel trying to correct the mistake. She was ripped from the wheel and now its trying to reattach itself. It is slowly making it so she is reborn like she was suppose to be with no memories.
4
Anubis: 2005-05-18
I have trouble remembering what happened a week ago. i could see brigette having trouble remembering past lives. its alot to remember, and the brain can only hold so much. when she was in TAR she was not limited by having a phisical form. people naturally forget the past, and it makes sense that she would not be able to remember everything, who could?
5
Great Lord of the Dark: 2005-05-18
Could ripping Birgitte be the 'accidental good' that spared Moghedien death and earned her only a mindtrap instead? Good reasoning jellybeans. I'll have to think on this some more...
6
drz1649: 2005-05-18
Not an expert, but it simply seemed that Birgitte's memory loss was simply a result of living in a corporeal body in the real world again. She is becoming as she would be if normally spun out of the Wheel.
Your interpretation is similar to events in the "Night's Dawn" trilogy though, except the dead are not possessing the living in Randland.
There is just nothing to suggest the memory loss is the result of a malicious agent, or really important to the story at all - save for its effects on Birgitte. Who has played a minor part despite all her AOL knowledge - why did no-one interrogate her about the Forsaken or ancient secrets? Is she predicted to play a major part in Tarmon Gaidon, or is she another wild card like Fain, outwith Prophecy and the Wheel?
Wow, so easy to get caught in a tangent. I knew I loved these books for a reason.
7
Jes: 2005-05-21
In response to Great Lord of the Dark:
I had always assumed that the "good by accident" that Moghedien did (CoS, Ch. 25 Mindtrap) was that by taking control of the Panarch's palace she unknowingly facilitated the discovery of the male necklace-and-braclets adam.
8
Callandor: 2005-05-21
**I had always assumed that the "good by accident" that Moghedien did (CoS, Ch. 25 Mindtrap) was that by taking control of the Panarch's palace she unknowingly facilitated the discovery of the male necklace-and-braclets adam.**
That was hardly an accident, though, since she knew where to find information about them.
9
dedoublya: 2005-05-24
Well, I don't think it neccesarily Birgitte that is causing these problems, or that the dead are coming from TAR, but I think the boundaries between life and death are definitely weakening. It may have something to do with Birgitte, but at the same time it may have something to do with the Dark One's increasing hold on the world. But I don't think the dead are coming from TAR.
10
WinespringBrother: 2005-06-08
There is the possibility that Birgitte's being ripped from TAR and the ghost infestation aren't necessarily cause and effect, but related nonetheless. They could be due to other events, such as the blowing of the Horn of Valere, LTT's rebirth, a side effect of the weakening of the seals, or something else altogether. Moiraine among others has commented from the beginning of the series that old barriers are weakening.
*** Eye of the World, CHAPTER: 45 - What Follows in Shadow
"She saw a great deal," Moiraine said wryly. "About all of you. I wish I could understand half of what she saw, but even she does not. Old barriers fail. But whether what Min does is old or new, she sees true. Your fates are bound together. Thom Merrilin's, too." ***
It's possible though that Moghedien increased the pace of chaos by doing what she did.
11
JakOShadows: 2005-06-08
There was a theory posted someplace else where it is theorized that when Shadar Logoth is destroyed, all the souls that where tied to it were released and that's what caused the ghost. And in the timeline of events, that seems to make the most sense to me, but there isn't very much clear evidence to support it yet. This theory will be an RAFO.
12
Narianna: 2005-06-09
again that soul tying?
can someone please tell me if mashadar really takes one's soul as well as one's body?
i couldn't seem to find a reference to this in the books.
13
matoyak: 2005-06-10
do you think that it is possible that the world of dreams and the "real" world are meshing togather and that is what is creating the ghosts, (intersting theory BTW)
14
ilgross: 2005-06-10
I that could be the "Oh my God.." thing that RJ was talking about. In KoD something that happened early in the series has a bad effect in the new book.
15
matoyak: 2005-06-10
my last post was pure speculation...just to clarify that
16
Anubis: 2005-06-10
Yes narianna, marshdar eats souls.