hadar Logoth
by silverwolf: 2003-01-25 | 3 out of 10 (2 votes)
I was reading all the theories about all the dead people we have seen running around in CoT when it dawned on me that the timing fits in with the destruction of Shadar Logoth. The dead walking in So Habor could be the pattern's response to the destruction of Shadar Logoth. This seems a little odd, but the dead don't seem to be the DO's style; yes, he created an image of Kari al'Thor in TEotW, but it didn't behave similarly to the ghosts we are seeing now. Rand's Shadar Logoth wound still hasn't healed, indicating that at least part of Shadar Logoth survived. Also, let's not forget that Fain is out there somewhere; this could be something that he caused (before anyone says that Fain isn't powerful enough to cause something this widespread, remember that we have no idea how powerful Fain actually is at the end of WH. The obvious problem with this theory is that (a)The girl at the manor sees a ghost before Elayne feels the effects of the cleansing of the taint and (b)So Habor had been seeing ghosts a long time before Perrin got there.
But wait! TAR is like a backbone for the pattern (or, all the patterns of all the worlds), and time flows differently there. What if the time distortion allowed the pattern to begin to balance the destruction of Shadar Logoth before it occured? This would explain why the apparitions are seen before the cleansing of the Taint.
Another problem is that most people associate the walking dead with the failing of the wards, which is almost certainly the work of the DO; however, there is no real evidence that this is true. There have been no reports of walking dead in the White Tower or in the rebel camp, and there was no mention of spoiled/rotten/maggot-filled food at the estate in Andor or the town that Mat and Tuon went to.
I realize this theory is a little out there and not extremely likely, but I thought I'd submit it anyway.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-01-25
I thought Shadar Logoth was a good pick until people pointed out some of the inconsistencies that you mentioned. But I like what you wrote about the walking dead haven't been tied to the Saidar failing, although the weevils and such in So Habor could be tied to the walking dead. I plainly don't like the connection between the dead and the DO, because I don't think it exists (the Kari thing, as you mentioned, being a real weak, and incorrect connection.) I like the idea that Fain has something to do with it. His powers have increased and he has left his mark many places.
2
Nateosis: 2003-02-12
Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that the people killed had their souls devoured, or something? (dont have the book with me, but i think it was in eye of the world.. .could be wrong)
so when shadar logoth was destroyed, wouldnt all the souls be released?
So logically speaking, i think the ghosts are all the souls being released from a now destroyed SL.
3
silverwolf: 2003-02-13
To me, "devoured" indicates that they aren't coming back. I could be wrong, but I think that anyone killed by a denizen of Shadar Logoth (Mashadar, Mordeth, etc) is gone for good. Even if they weren't, there shouldn't have been any way for them to "survive" the destruction of the city. SL was encased in the taint, an antithesis of SL; I don't think anything of Shadar Logoth survived, except Fain/Mordeth/whatever the hell he is.
4
Napoleon the Clown: 2006-03-06
IMO, this is more a Fain thing, as has been mentioned. If you'll remember, in TGH (pg 174-175, The Hunt Begins), Uno spots a woman that disappears. Here's the abridged excerpt.
" 'They're just gone my Lord,' Uno said. 'Just bloody gone, burn me. Like they'd picked up and decided to flaming leave in middle of the bloody day.' He stopped suddenly, pointing urgently to a house behind Ingtar.
'There's a woman at that window. How I bloody missed her...' He was running for the house before anyone else could move.
'Don't frighten her!' Ingtar shouted. 'Uno, we need information. The Light blind you, Uno, don't frighten her!' The one eyed man disappeared through the open door... A window at the top of the house flew up, and Uno stuck his head out, staring around wildly. With an oath he pulled back. thumps and clatters marked his passage back, as if he were kicking things in frustration. Finally he appeared from the doorway.
'Gone, my Lord. But she was there. A woman in a white dress, at the window. I even thought I saw her inside, for a moment, but then she was gone, and...' “
This incidence appears to have all the characteristics of later ghost encounters. There is no indication that the woman Uno saw acknowledged the party. Fain had been through here with the Dagger and Mordeth. Mordeth seems to be somewhat of a ghost, so theoretically his influence could be causing the ghosts, the effects spreading further and further from him as he grows more powerful and, of course, the taint of Aridhol spreads.
5
JakOShadows: 2006-03-07
Napoleon:
I believe Lanfear mentioned later in the books that it was her who was spying on him. I forget where it was said though. But this early in the series, it seems more likely that it was her instead of Fain. And also considering the fact, that she was tracking Rand in tGH makes her a likely person to be in the area.
6
Canan Urgas: 2006-03-08
the lady at that window, i think could have been lanfear because it was around then that she first started coming to rand. forgive the silly question, but what exactly is in shadar logoths place now that it was destroyed? is it just a massive bowl shape? is it empty? if the taint had been liquidised (like saidin was at the eye of the world) that could have been interesting
7
haertchen: 2006-03-08
I'm guessing the woman seen in TGH was real, and that her name was Lanfear. It's a lot easer than believing that the ghosts are related to Fain, especially since we don't see any more ghosts until after TFoH.
8
Callandor: 2006-03-09
**This incidence appears to have all the characteristics of later ghost encounters. There is no indication that the woman Uno saw acknowledged the party.**
The woman was undoubtedly Lanfear. The incident occured around Rand, Lanfear at the time was following Rand closely in order to start controlling him and influencing him, shortly after this Rand is taken into a Mirror World by Lanfear (and Ishamael), and we know Lanfear loves white, white, white, dresses. Uno didn't find her for a number of reasons: she Traveled away, she simply hid herself with Mask of Mirror, she got out of the house in time, or he did find her and she Compelled him to forget it -- or something completely different. But it's highly unlikely that it wasn't Lanfear.
9
Ishamael666: 2006-03-10
Canan Urgas:
Shadar Logoth is currently a 3-mile wide, perfectly round crater. The very stone was removed.
10
Callandor: 2006-03-11
**the lady at that window, i think could have been lanfear because it was around then that she first started coming to rand. forgive the silly question, but what exactly is in shadar logoths place now that it was destroyed? is it just a massive bowl shape? is it empty? if the taint had been liquidised (like saidin was at the eye of the world) that could have been interesting**
Here's the report:
**TITLE: Crossroads of Twilight, CHAPTER: 19 - Surprises
"What we saw, Mother, was a roughly circular hole in the ground," she said, nodding for emphasis at nearly every other word. She seemed to choose those words carefully, as if to make sure she was absolutely clear to everyone. "It may have been a precise circle, originally, shaped like half of a ball, but the sides have collapsed in some places. The hole is approximately three miles across and perhaps a mile and a half deep." Someone gasped loudly, and Akarrin frowned as though whoever it was had tried to interrupt. She went on without pausing, however. "We could not be entirely certain of the depth. The bottom is covered with water and ice. We believe it may become a lake, eventually. In any event, we were able to ascertain our exact location without too much difficulty, and we are prepared to say that the hole is located where the city called Shadar Logoth once stood." She fell silent, and for a long moment the only sound was the rustle of skirts as Aes Sedai shifted uneasily.**
Every piece of the city and whatever else you would like to say composed it is gone -- except for Fain and the dagger, now.
11
Ishamael666: 2006-03-12
Fain+dagger, AND the White Tower (to a limited extent).
Lord of Chaos, Chapter - Letters:
"Unlikely Niall would have supported al'Thor any more than Elaida would have, but it was best not to take too much for granted with Rand bloody al'Thor. Well, he [Fain] had brushed them both with what he carried from Aridhol..."
12
Callandor: 2006-03-12
**Fain+dagger, AND the White Tower (to a limited extent).**
Right, because Elaida is the one spreading the evil throughout the Tower and causing all the derision. He made them mistrust Rand -- no where near the level of himself or the dagger.
