he Last Battle is not The End.
by dave: 2003-05-10 | Not yet rated
Hello again, I'm fairly new here, but I'll try to post some theories here so you can agree or bash them, whatever you want. I'm here to please, or somethig...
Anyway, Nicola's Foretelling. I haven't seen this one discussed anywhere (I may be wrong) but I'll bring it up anyway.
During a re-read I found her foretelling in LoC - Dreams and Nightmare. I had forgotten this until i read it again. Here's what it says:
"Suddenly Nicola spoke, sounding half-asleep. "The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."
Anaiya stared at her. "What was that, child?"
Ok, let's try to break it down. Remember this is just my interpretation, but I think it is fairly accurate.
"The lion sword" - This would be Elayne, the royal sign of Andor is a lion.
"The dedicated spear" - Aviendha, Aiel means Dedicated, and she was a Maiden of the Spear.
"She who sees beyond" - Min, she can see aura's and the working of the pattern in some ways.
"Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives" - the three being Elayne, Min and Aviendha. This is probably connected to Min's viewing in tEotW, where she sees three woman standing around a coffin or some such (don't have the book here). Making Rand he who is dead yet lives. It is said he will have to die to live again. I'll get back to this later.
"the great battle done" - Tarmon Gai'don, I would belive.
"but the world not done with battle" - This is the most interesting point. The Last Battle finished, but there's still more. This leads me to belive the end of the last battle is not the end of the book-series. But what can there be left too fight after the DO?
"the land divided by the return" - The Seanchan calls their conquest the Corenne, which translates to the Return. The land is already divided by the Seanchan. Sort of...
"and the guardians balance the servants" - The Guardians are the Asha'man. Rand tells the Asha'man that it means Guardians in the Old Tounge at the farm, when he gives the Dragon and the Sword to those who have gotten far enough. The Servants are the Aes Sedai, somewhere in the books (not sure where) someone says that the AS are the Servants of All. The balancing can hint at the deal that Egwene's AS are going to propose to the Black Tower.
"the future teeters on the edge of a blade" - well, humpf... Dangeruos Days Ahead! This is obvious.
Now, my point in this rant is simple, the Last Battle is (ironically) not the last. This will happen, according to me:
Rand will obtain his truce with the Seanchan, they will help him win Tarmon Gai'don. Here Rand will "die". This will lead to the Seanchan thinking, that's since Rand was the one the truce was agreed with, and he is dead, it is now over. They will then continue the Corenne. Three days later Rand will "awake" and gather the AS and Asha'man behind him and fight the Seanchan, finally defeating them. Thus the book's will end. Maybe book 11 will be more preparations before Tarmon Gai'don (like CoT), book 12 will be Tarmon Gai'don and book 13, driving of the Seanchan and The End. Maybe.
This is my theory, you may not agree with me, but when the series is ended and everything has gone as I predicted I will laugh smugly at you all... or maybe not, who knows.
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1
Tamyrlin: 2003-05-16
Well, this is the standard definition of that prophecy, with a minor variation you included at the end. But I would say that you are wrong to conclude that Rand will come back to fight the Seanchan, because they will try to take advantage of his death. It is possible, but Jordan said a few years ago that wars will rage even after the Last Battle, and chaos will continue and that he plans on leaving the world in that situation. The Asha'man and the Aes Sedai still trying to come to grips with their new reality. The Seanchan, who will never (as a group) join Rand and the Aes Sedai, will still be attacking, ignorant of the Last Battle that has ended while they continue to plot their Return. Jordan will leave the books with the future on the edge of a blade for all groups. Your theory is different because you suggest that the Seanchan will truce with Rand...and I just don't see that happening. A contingent may join him, but the Seanchan only follow the Crystal Throne, and the Empress, no matter who her daughter is, still reigns.
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Callandor: 2003-05-16
First off, RJ said 12 books was it.
Second, I dont think that Rand will be reborn after the Last Battle till the Dragon is reborn again in the Forth Age, and it wont be Rand then it will someone else regardless of voices in head or whatever.
Third, the Last Battle isnt the last last, its just the Last for this Age and then the Forth Age starts.
Fourth, RJ has said that he wouldn't end all loose ends. But the Seanchan one seems too big to leave alone without some kind of conclusion, but I dont think it will be a whole solid one shot end thing.
Fifth, Rand dies, but his soul will live on to be the Dragon again and again.
Sixth, I do believe the Seanchan will go into a treaty with Rand, but more along the lines of like the Aiel, with only a faction following Rand.
3
Tamyrlin: 2003-05-17
Actually, RJ didn't say 12 was it. He has alluded to 6, then 10, and now 12. But recently TOR has said that RJ will be releasing three WoT novels between the releases of the next books. I take this to mean that one novel, then one book leads to 13 books in all. It is possible that there will only be 12, but after book 10, imho, it would be cutting it short since RJ has said that he plans on devoting 1-2 books on the Last Battle.
4
Rand-althor: 2003-05-20
I agree with a lot of this. Your interpertation of the fortelling is mostly what I agree with. A few questoins tho. 1)what leads you to 3 days then he "wakes"? 2)what makes you think he is going to come back at all? The prophecy was that he was to die and live again, but what if that was just a reference to his soul, that of the dragon. To be reborn he has to die. 3) Why on earth would Aes Sedai and Ashamen follow somebody who they saw die? If you see sombody die, then no matter what the conditions, im not gonna follow them if they come back. Death cannot be healed/reversed exept by balefire, in which case it is not reversed, it never happened. So they would be more likely to believe that it is some kind of trick by the seanchan. 4)Are the Aeil, Sea folk, and other nations just gonna sit back and watch? People are wary of Aes Sedai, and terrefied of Ashamen, so it is unlikely that they will be trusted to take whatever nations the Seanchan have by then, then give them back unconditonally.
5
Callandor: 2003-05-20
I totally believe that Rand simply dies at the Last Battle, well not simply he will do other things but he dies in the end, and his soul, that of the Dragon, lives on to be reborn again and again.
And Tam RJ said in a recent interview that he will do 3 prequels and only 2 more actual books, but Im hoping for 13 total not 12.
6
Janstince: 2003-05-21
Well, yes. This is pretty much how we all see that foretelling, and all. Of course, it would be nice if all the foretellings were gathered in one spot, all the Dreams, and all the viewings. That would be kind of cool. I mean, a person who does that would rank top in my book. Hard work, but definitely worth it to see what we have to work with, all in one place, so we can be sure we are not missing anything. In case you can't tell, I'm hinting (yeah, i know, i'm a n00b and have no right to say anything like this, especially since i wouldn't be doing the work :P).
Anyway, yeah, I've been trying to put this together with a couple of other things. Egwene's dream of Logain stepping over Rand's dead body, Min's viewing of Rand joining with somebody (supposedly LTT) and one dying and the other living, the third voice in Rand's head, and the idea of Rand needing a woman who is dead to succeed in TG. Frankly, if anyone can put these together in rational order then, well, um, I'll be your friend? Please?
7
Korell: 2003-05-21
I like this theory there are some holes but i am with the thinking that the living and dieing is the idea of Rand setting up himself so everyone thinks he is dead that could be wrong but i think i lean more that way then a messia like return as in the bible also....Tamyrlin you said that the Emperess rules the Crystal throne and that the Seanchan follow the throne there is one problem with that what if somone Kills the Emperess does the Tuon not then become the Emperess? not sure how their higher archey works but i think that is correct now we have not had anything that says that will happen and i am of the belife that it will probly be a faction of the seanchan wrather then all the seanchan however we still have to leave the possability open that it could happen as for how man books their will be we have to include the novella that he is doing on spring dawning in what ToR said he would be doing that would make it 13 total but only 12 actual novels however i do agree with Tamyrlin that there will be probly three more full novels interesting topic though
8
Tamyrlin: 2003-05-21
Give me a direct quote and reference for the interview and I will believe you. :)
9
Jiana: 2003-05-21
Janstince said (paraphrase) that it would be kind of cool to have all of the foretellings and viewings gathered in one place, so we would know what we are working with. Welllll........ I have a few notes on that compiled already :), and if someone can tell me where to put it when I am all done, I will be glad to take on the task!
10
Rand-althor: 2003-05-21
2 points
1) Jordan has said a number of times, he is planning 3 prequels, a revised New Spring(Lan and Moiraine meeting) one about Tam, how he got the Blade and about his life before the series, and the last about how Lan and Moiraine got to the Two Rivers just in time.
2) Min's viewings/Eladia and Nicola's fortellings/Perrin's wolf dreams/other propecies are all collected already. It is at Wotmania.com, in the FAQ under dreams, prophecies, viewings... or (if you dont want to bother with the main page) at http://wotmania.com/faqtoc.asp
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Weird Harold: 2003-05-21
Jianna, Encyclopedia WOT also has a collection of all of the known prophecies -- including the Aiel and Seafolk prohesies.
They can be found at http://www.photeus.com:8090/~ewot/prophecies/index.html
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Callandor: 2003-05-21
WOTFAQ... has all dreams and whatever you need plus lots of good connections. Under links at Theoryland.
However it must be noted that FAQs are mostly 1/3rd right, 1/3rd wrong, and 1/3rd close.
13
Jiana: 2003-05-21
Well thank you Rand, you just saved me a lot of headache! ;)
14
Brighid: 2003-06-03
As far as the Seanchan are concerned, I don't think anyone should underestimate how dashedly charming that Mat Cauthon can be. Now that he has kidnapped his bride-to-be, the Daughter of the Nine Moons, the Heir to the Crystal Throne of the Empress, ANYTHING is possible as regards the Seanchan. Of course she's playing him like a harp, because this is Robert Jordan and for some reason all of his men and women run around confusing the hell out of one another, but the important thing is that a member of Rand's 'team' has formed a connection with someone who has a whole lot of power/influence within the Seanchan court. Of course if she goes and marries Mat as she's supposed to, she may not be the Heir any longer, but I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out.
